Just how far in Advancement and Capability is the U.S. Military?

There is also the M494 round for the 105mm howitzer; the round ruptures releasing approximately 5,000 small flechette darts and a dye marker. Israel produces a 120mm APERS round with the same principle.

Flechettes are a banned type of ordnance, or certainly proscribed by the Geneva convention....same with napalm and chemical defoliants (Agent Orange).

I don't think anyone wants a return to waging war the way we did in Vietnam.

 

Just internationalist liberals who try to civilize war by tying the arm behind the backs of soldiers with liberal rules of engagement and PC laws of war. The end game, more soldiers bleed and die on the battlefield in the name of political correctness.

The same people said the M-16-A1's 5.56 mm M-193 ammunition was inhumane and illegal.

I could go down the PC list of inhumane weapons that are banned, napalm, shotguns, anti personnel mines, willie peter, tear gas, cluster bombs, etc.
War isn't about being politically correct, it's deadly serious, kill the guy who's trying to kill you before he kills you.

During WW ll in the Pacific U.S. Marines didn't take prisoners during the heat of combat. A complete violation of the Geneva Convention. If a Japanese soldier was needed to be captured to gather intelligence there were special Marine units who went out on the battlefield to capture a Japanese soldier. Otherwise Japanese soldiers weren't given a chance to surrender until after the battle was won during the mopping up phase of the battle.
The Japanese had the same policies.

From a anti-Israel PC organization:
excerpt

 

I agree to a certain extent that war is about killing people and breaking their stuff...and there is no such thing as a gentrified version of dispatching death.

Dead is dead...

However in principle, once war has begun, there remain moral limits to action.

What good did napalm, carpet bombing and chemical defoliation really do in Vietnam. We abandoned Saigon and have not returned since.

Peace must be a central motive even in the midst of violence. We cannot in good conscience say that peace was achieved in Vietnam after our departure. Vietnam and its people have vanished almost completely from the American consciousness.

This is a consistent pattern in our foreign diplomacy.

 

I always want to shake my head when somebody ignores the capability of, or dismisses Technicals as ineffective.

They are far from ineffective, and some have been amazingly sophisticated.









In the past decade some have gotten amazingly sophisticated. Even using tablet computers to do accurate fire control for mortars and rockets.

 

As always Mushroom you Balance me out.

Yes....of course I am aware of this as if you read my OP I discuss it.

I would have to agree with your post except for one very important aspect.

Although BLACK PROGRAMS....by their very nature are Lab Based and Tested at Groom Lake if Aircraft and Tested at JPL or MISLR if Space or Ground Based respectively.....the U.S. Military does have in it's USABLE JOHNNY ON THE SPOT MILITARY INVENTORY....a number of LAST USE WEAPONS that are so Advanced they remain Top Secret and Compartmentalized to the point even a standing U.S. President is most likely not aware of their existence.

But never the less....I know of at least 2 Systems that exist and would NEVER BE USED unless they absolutely needed to be.

Just the knowledge of the EXISTENCE of such Weapons Systems could start a war.

I think you are smart enough to know or at least GUESS about the existence of ONE of these.

AboveAlpha

 

Sorry, I do not guess. I only make analysis on what is known and factual. I as a general rule do not speculate, guess, or imagine (although I have often been known to extrapolate).

And to give an idea what I mean about black programs, few if any ever really become anything. And often times what they end up with is nothing like what they originally set out to create.

For example, are you aware that the RADAR originally started as an attempt to make a "death ray"? That Viagra was originally intended to be a heart medication? And that RU-486 was originally researched as a treatment for endometriosis?

This is why I generally ignore any kind of research until it gets into the late-prototype phase. And I do not consider it a "real system" until it gets to the deployment phase. Most research to be honest goes nowhere, or is cancelled and spun off into yet another decade(s) long R&D program.

Quite literally, I never "count the chickens before they hatch". Part of the eternal skeptic in me.

 

True....but never the less....there are successes.

One of these is stored on the West Coast in numbers.

It's effective ability is beyond what anyone ever thought it could be.

AboveAlpha

 

Considering your claimed background & the claim to know about them I would guess a bio weapon. Now there are two choices :
1- A link to unclassified information so we no longer have to guess. or
2- Waite in fear for the agents in dark suites to drag you off for revealing classified information & endangering national security.

Freddy

 

Are you referring to the PWMD's ?

I was one of the first back in 2001 who advocated using the PWMD's or at least threatening to use them.

 

There are two other factors you seem to be ignoring

1.The reason for the famous "full metal jacket" bullet was so as NOT to kill the enemy, A wounded soldier removes himself and two support people from combat for as long as he takes to recover. A dead soldier is buried and forgotten.

2. The overall objective of just about any war we engage in during this age of atomic warfare is, at least ostensibly, to BENEFIT the enemy populace. If we ever do get again get involved in a WWII situation where we simply want to kill everyone then we will simply launch the missiles and be done. We are not going to win anyone's heart or mind by blowing everybody's brains out; it is a practical necessity to avoid "collateral damage" as much as we can

 

Oh c'mon, you can tell US. I mean it's not like anybody really reads this board anyway

Two Russian agents, reading the Interwebz

"Anatoly, look at this, the Americans are mounting rail guns on their latest tank, we are undone"

"Vlad, you're reading Above Alpha again, aren't you?"

 

Re: #1.
The myth we have been told that the enemy will try to wound you thinking that it will take three more soldiers out of the fight. Just a myth.

There were no Islamist who was just trying to wound an American soldier in Iraq or Afghanistan and there were no commies in South Vietnam just trying to wound a Marine or soldier. There were no chi-coms in Korea who were trying to wound the imperialist American soldiers just as there were no Germans or Japs who were just trying to would American Marines and soldiers. All were trying to kill Americans.

And there has never been an American soldier or Marine who was just trying to wound the enemy. All were trying to kill the guy who was trying to kill him. It all came down to, who got killed first.

During WW ll in the Pacific non grunts, mostly rear echelon types like shore party members or division band members were used as stretcher bearers so the rifleman could continue to fight. That was the combat job of a drummer or trumpet player of a Marine Corps band, stretcher bearer on the front lines. By Vietnam with the helicopter there was no more need of stretcher bears to carry the wounded back to the rear lines. One doesn't stop trying to kill the enemy because his buddy was wounded next to him, that's what medics and Navy Corpsman are for.

Re:#2.
>" to BENEFIT the enemy populace."<

I've noticed that in today's field manuals. It's called nation building and this is where neo-cons and liberals get it completely wrong. It's not the job of the U.S. military to win harts and minds or to engage in nation building.

You start nation building after the war has been won. Then it's not the mission of the military to engage in nation building, it's the job of the State Department. The military's job is occupation.

The only branch of the U.S. military that's suppose to engage in winning harts and minds are the Army Special Forces (Green Berets) or Marine Combined Action Platoons. (CAP)

 

BIO-WEAPON!!?????

HELL NO!!!

Where did that come from??

AboveAlpha

 

You will have to be more specific....I would thing the WMD's stands for Weapons of Mass Destruction but the P could stand for several other things.

AboveAlpha

- - - Updated - - -

You know I am laughing my A$$ OFF right now because your post isn't far from the facts!! LOL!!

Not the Russian's though!! LOL!!!

Think.....East of Iraq! LOL!!

AboveAlpha

 

Our weak spots are asymmetrical as in lack of a strong cyber warfare military branch, lack of a missile defense shield, lack of basic things like rare Earth metals which China is dominating and we have one mine for them and lack of fit people we could draft to fight a real war if needed. In some areas we do well our special forces are formidable for example.

 

PORK



American soldiers used pork as a weapon very successfully against the Moro Muslims during the Philippine Insurrection (1899-1913) Why not today ?

Right after 9-11-01 some of us were on a military blog website and we brought it up. Some thought we were joking but we showed them how American soldiers used pork as a weapon to defeat the Moro's.

Pork bombs from the sky. Claymore mines but packed with pork chops. Aerosol pork bombs. Strips of bacon on the perimeter wire was very successful during the Philippine Insurrection, no Muslims in the wire. Instead of napalm, shower the Islamist with bacon grease.

But it was pointed out that using pork in a war against Muslims wasn't politically correct.

 

Our weakness as far as Cyber-Warfare and the Cyber Attacks we have endured ARE SUSPECT BEYOND BELIEF!!!

I am not one of these people that will say...."OH! THE U.S. MILITARY HAS NO WEAKNESSES!"...because we certainly do....not many...but more than enough.

But I DO NOT BELIEVE EVEN FOR ONE SECOND ONE OF THOSE WEAKNESSES EXISTS IN THE AREA OF PREVENTING CYBER ATTACKS!!!

We ALLOW them in.

Then we TAG THEM.

We allow them access to very low grade intel...or completely false data.

I have a friend and I have mentioned his name on this forum

He is known as MOTHMAN.

Geeks, Hackers, Programmers...etc.....they treat the name....MOTHMAN....the same way as Harry Potter Fans treat the name VOLDEMORT!!!!

They either don't say his name outloud or don't say it at all.

I TRUST THIS MAN AND HAVE TRUSTED HIM WITH MY LIFE AND THE LIVES OF MANY OTHERS.

From what he tells me....the U.S. Cyber Command is NOTHING....and he said.....THEY ARE NOTHING....in comparison to the U.S. Military CONTRACTORS who are paid and tasked with protecting the Nation and the U.S. Military against CYBER ATTACKS.

From what he has told me his group is perfectly capable of shutting down anything they can access in another Nations Military AT WILL....and access exists in ways I can neither discuss but if I could IT WOULD SURPRISE THE HELL OUT OF MOST OF YOU!!

His group often works with the NSA and the Russian FDS and GRU and Military was so worried about his groups work with the NSA that the FDS, GRU and Russian Military actually did THIS.......

THEY REMOVED ALL COMPUTERS OR OLD WORD PROCESSORS BEING USED BY THE SECRETARIAL STAFF IN THE KREMLIN, KGB, GRU AND OTHER SENSITIVE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT, MILITARY AND CIVILIAN AREAS AND AGENCIES AND REPLACED THESE COMPUTERS WITH NON-ELECTRIC TYPEWRITERS!!!!

This is 100% a FACT....although after a few days they allowed ELECTRIC TYPEWRITERS to be used.

THAT....is how worried they are.....and to think of the capabilities we have for us to worry about so nation being able to SHUT DOWN THE ELECTRICAL GRID....or HACK INTO A NUCLEAR REACTOR FACILITY.....is just BULL S#!#!!!

If they get in......THEY ARE ALLOWED....TAGGED....AND RELEASED!!

AboveAlpha

 

You know....this reminded me of something.

SPAM!!!

During WWII.....SPAM was one of the WEAPONS we used to get Island Peoples to fight the Japanese....as well in the Philippines where the Japanese were unbelievably brutal and in New Guinea....CANABALISM was brought back into style fighting the Japanese.....LONG PIG.....is what they call Humans.

AboveAlpha

 

If it weren't for WW ll and Spam, I wouldn't be here today.

When my father returned from the Pacific he and a few of his buddies were on liberty in Santa Monica. They walked into a coffee shop and ordered lunch. The waitress (my future mother) asked the four Marines what they wanted to order. They said just bring us what you would order. She returned with four Spam sandwiches. That was the last thing they wanted to eat after spending two years in the Pacific eating Spam.

Well that's the story how my father met my mother.

 

Didn't you say you were involved with cleaning up contaminated sites at one stage?

Freddy.

 

LOL!!!!

THAT IS AN AWESOME STORY!!!

I can imagine your Dad's face when your future Mom brought him SPAM!! LOL!!!

AboveAlpha

 

#1. I and my Team provided SECURITY to U.S. Military Chemical, Nuclear and Biological Weapons Destruction Teams as they worked at Sites....these included some VERY NASTY AND TOXIC BIO-WEAPONS SITES AND LABS IN RUSSIA!!

#2. California does not have such degraded sites.

I was talking about a Weapon System that was designed and built for the U.S. Military that is considered a LAST USE SYSTEM.

Not because of the destruction it would cause against an enemy.

But because it is so Highly Advanced.....perhaps 80 years in Advancement to anything else out there....and it is DEPLOYED BUT STORED.....the knowledge of just it's EXISTENCE would cause all sorts of problems.

This is but one of two I am aware of.

AboveAlpha

 

Ok, Guess No.2:

The US has developed a super cannon & installed one of them on the west coast. The cannon is so long that it is built into the ground or hillside & capable of launching shells & missiles into space as part of a US Prompt Global Strike system. The propellant used is either chemical in stages as the projectile moves through the cannon or magnetic as a rail gun with possible use of magnetic levitation to prevent physical contact between the projectile & cannon bore/rail.

Next stage is to build an even longer & bigger diameter cannon to launch satellites & astronauts into space.

Freddy.

 

Naw.....although Nazi Germany used to build Super Canon's.

Fixed Fortifications and Fixed Weapons are a MONUMENT TO STUPIDITY!!

There was some group a while back that was talking about shooting PAYLOADS into Space for the International Space Station with a Canon.

AboveAlpha

 

You're missing my entire point. No, the individual soldier is not trying to wound but his ammunition is designed to. You were discussing why we don't use certain kinds of ammunition, yes?


Are you suggesting that we should fight total, that is nuclear, wars?

So you write some of the stuff you do to fool the Iranians, who think that Everything on the Internet is True? Might work.