Lawrence Wilkerson: NATO will split if proxy war with Russia continues, raising the risk of nuclear

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Destroyer of illusions, Jul 24, 2023.

  1. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member Donor

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    ah okay...so this has nothing to do with the youtube video then...just that the other link you gave was dead so I assume he's in that.

    yeah...its all fun isn't it.
     
  2. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    As expected, you have no arguments. Ostrich, he put head in sand, is it not?
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2023
  3. Destroyer of illusions

    Destroyer of illusions Well-Known Member

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    I checked the link - the link opens. You do not open the link, most likely because American censorship blocks the connection. This happens when the country is headed by a fascist government. But you can use a VPN. Unless, of course, you want to know the truth.
     
  4. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Why do Russians keep accusing others of doing what they do and being like themselves? Is it a product of cognitive dissonance, perhaps?
     
  5. Destroyer of illusions

    Destroyer of illusions Well-Known Member

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    No charges. There is a statement of fact.
    It's like saying - the United States has the largest number of prisoners in the world, or only the United States and Nazi Germany created concentration camps for their citizens. It's just a fact. Whether you like it or not, it's true.
     
  6. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/ГУЛАГ
     
  7. Destroyer of illusions

    Destroyer of illusions Well-Known Member

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  8. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Ссылки
     
  9. Destroyer of illusions

    Destroyer of illusions Well-Known Member

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    Ahaha.... I knew it-you can't prove anything. All your links are given to someone's opinion. The first reference to the Yakovlev Foundation is especially funny. :roflol::roflol::roflol:
    I have been asking for many years on this forum to show me at least one proof of the "bloody" GULAG, but no one has ever been able to do this. Maximum references to the science fiction writer Solzhenitsyn (who was repeatedly caught lying) or someone's opinion. Or, as and you, give out a link to wikipedia, which also gives a link to someone's opinion.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2023
  10. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Documented history, unlike the goofy **** you post here and claim to be gospel truth.
     
  11. Destroyer of illusions

    Destroyer of illusions Well-Known Member

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    Ahaha... All your "stories" refer to the opinion of a foreign agent, the Memorial organization.:roflol::roflol::roflol:
     
  12. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    You have no argument. All you can do is attack the source and post emoticons.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2023
  13. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Mass repression in Russia: cosplay of Stalin?


    Stalin is a hero in Putin's Russia and a leader to be emulated.

    Accordingly, Putin's regime imprisons people for speech.
     
  14. ricmortis

    ricmortis Well-Known Member

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    Russia doesn't publicly document their prison records. Heck, people are imprisoned for disagreeing with Putin or stating facts that differ from the Kremlin narrative in Russia. That is the difference between a Dictatorship run by a ruthless Warlord and an Actual Democracy. Not one single government is trustworthy in this world since human behavior is inherently corrupt, but the USA is light years ahead of Putin's criminally run government.
     
  15. Destroyer of illusions

    Destroyer of illusions Well-Known Member

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    And, as usual, you pass off someone's opinion as supposedly "evidence".:roflol::roflol::roflol:
    I'll tell you - read the memo for Khrushchev from the Prosecutor General, the Minister of Justice and the Minister of the Interior about the number of prisoners since 1921
    It contains a photo of a note from the Ministry of Internal Affairs to N.S. Khrushchev about the number of convicts since 1921
    There is a photocopy in the attachment.
    https://docs.yandex.ru/docs/view?url=ya-browser://4DT1uXEPRrJRXlUFoewruK3vi1qAlh567gmg9GcJ7Brcio9QmX_zb30ive9cotBnYSKvo9OpCIBu51Nm5vAkCw8SVBOebZRpfVblPnZWZacEVw7JH3eDM6RFo0rfwV9gMyGKb5CifWHgKGb3ZerdoQ==?sign=K9f1WoYQqt_tNI8igrRy4nTSWEk1k3q4vT-rGGmzuFI=&name=4022281_zapiska_hruschyovu.doc

    And you can compare it with the number of convicts during this period in the USA, for example. :roflol::roflol::roflol:
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2023
  16. Destroyer of illusions

    Destroyer of illusions Well-Known Member

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    Ahahaha.... Your comment is especially funny when you read the statistics where it says - the United States has the largest number of prisoners in the world. In China, the population is five times larger than in the United States, but there are more prisoners in the United States than in China. :roflol::roflol::roflol:
     
  17. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member Donor

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    ...its the same as it Russia...not so many prisoners now....why spend money accommodating and feeding and clothing prisoners when you can take them out the back of the building a shoot them or even better just sell them on to a PMC...easy really and a real money spinner for the state! Although I think Russia has been even clever as they just dispense with all the malarkey involved in court trials and police custody and evidence gathering...you know all that boring stuff which just really costs so much of peoples time and saves a crap load of money - which we all know is in short supply in Russia!! They now just chuck people out of windows and let the street sweepers clean up the mess.

    So yeah a good way of keeping your prison population down is;
    1) just shoot them
    2) chuck them out of windows
    3) sell them as self-spreading fertiliser

    :)

    oh sorry forgot the usual ahahaha...and them bloody silly emojis.....:roflol::roflol::roflol:....there you go all well in the world....nothing like being consistent....:D
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2023
  18. pitbull

    pitbull Banned Donor

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    Ruzzkies & friends are dreaming of NATO's downfall. That's only natural.
    But their constant fear-mongering of nuclear war suggests they are incapable of fighting it. :)
    Comrade Pooteen's nukes might be a propaganda fake. Nobody knows. He's just playing poker.
     
  19. Heroclitus

    Heroclitus Well-Known Member

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    A debate between American fascists and their Russian handlers and American liberal troglodytes who have buried their heads in the sand.

    The Ukraine offensive lost a fifth of its new materiel in the opening days of the offensive. This is old news unchanged by pathetic American culture wars and Russian trolls. Denying it is stupid. Celebrating it is obscene and cries out to Heaven for vengeance.

    The United States is a spent force in terms of its leadership of any “free world”. This discussion reflects that. Its body politic is infested with bigots and scum that are ideological soulmates of Putin and his gang. Even if it doesn’t elect a traitor like Trump the fact that it might just shows how the American counter revolution has prevailed. So called “liberals” continue to embrace complacency and culture war sideshows. Their ineptitude is stunning. Even though they do the right thing as they support the Resistance against a new global fascism, they seem oblivious to the fact that their own home grown fascists are seriously threatening to sink the whole ship.

    It’s a competition in ineptitude though that Europeans also embrace. Macron correctly talks about the need to create a force for liberty independent from the summer soldier and sunshine patriot that is (and actually always has been) the USA. As his own ineptitude ushers in a new era of French Neo-fascism he fiddles while the banlieus burn. Britain in turn has neutralized itself and is increasingly irrelevant. It can’t explain why it supports an Ukraine that embraces Europe as it wallows in isolationism and colonial fantasies. The neo-fascist AfD grows stronger in Germany and their admiration of Putin is rooted in Germany’s historical penchant for authoritarianism. Poland, Hungary… we can go on. The enemy is truly at the gates everywhere.

    Leon Trotsky once said that if you can’t persuade a fascist you should acquaint his face with the pavement. There is a time for talking and a time for action. Liberals and so called progressives have to realize that we are in an existential fight for liberty with these evil forces. Trump supporters, Le Pen supporters, Orban supporters are my enemy as much as the Luftwaffe were the enemies of my grandparents in the East End of London. We should see these individuals the same as we saw traitors and collaborators in the last century’s war against fascism. We can entreat the gullible and the brainwashed a little but there is really no point engaging with the Commissars who command them. For traitors and collaborators is what they are and we should never forget it.

    The free world was only sustained in the twentieth century by three things: the young men of the Royal Air Force under the leadership of Churchill, the brutal tactics of a Red Army whose soldiers fought and died in their millions sacrificed by their own inhuman leaders, and a golden generation of heroic Americans - now gone - that entered the war only because Japan and Germany forced them into it. The American appeasers of liberty of the original “America First” were always there and now are unashamedly back in force. The only thing worth discussing now is how to defeat these fascists all over again. Fascists at Trump rallies, Collaborateurs at Le Pen rallies, Russian NaZis with their own dreams of lebensraum and a Russky Mir that goes from Dublin to Anchorage.

    Russian strength in this war is fragile - that is the real analysis - but it is still not defeated. It is sustained by nuclear blackmail and the same indifference to Russian and Ukrainian life that drove Stalin. Russians are a feudal people that have never embraced modernity - they only abolished serfdom after they were defeated in the Crimean War. Their religion is medieval in its superstition. They wallow in lies so much that lying is recognized even by Russians themselves as a national trait so much that they snicker even at themselves. Out of this has come great cultural achievement (often by outcasts) but little other contribution to humanity. What great medical contribution has Russki Mir made to Man? What Russki Mir products do we have in our homes? Russia has for centuries been a dead weight on the course of human development, precisely because of its hostility to modernity and progress (hence the enthusiasm for Russia by the new American fascists in our midst). We can only hope that young Russians see this themselves and create their own revolution for liberty, even as we roll back the frontiers of our own achievements in the “free world”.

    All we can do is acknowledge the struggle we face against tyranny in the liberal democracies and focus on what’s important. Personal pronouns and restroom preferences are not important. Stop engaging in this crap in the culture war. Start uniting people in favour of a fair deal for working people. Support just wars but condemn war crimes unequivocally when they come from our side. Create industrial policies which boost jobs and innovation in areas which have lost out or where immigration is changing the nature of work. Do this in every liberal democracy. The USSR was defeated by its own economic failure and the rising living standards of its rivals, which won over the people of the East to the worldview of the West. The mistake we made was thinking we had won this war when in fact the enemies of freedom were always in our own midst and the people we won over were more seduced by Coca Cola and Levi Jeans than by Rousseau, Paine, Rawls or Popper.

    It’s a fight that today is neither won nor lost. In many ways the emergence of these evil people everywhere is waking people up to the threat to our freedoms (certainly in Europe). We don’t recognize this enough though. Brave Ukrainians are giving their lives for our liberty as American armchair warriors from the Right sneer at them and wish them ill. These trolls do not deserve argument they deserve only contempt. But that is not enough. We need to fight this battle every day to win over the world, again and again. The victory of the pressed Soviet army and the heroic GIs and Tommies has only been half won. Now this generation has gone we have the same old fascists we always had back again. They never went away, just bided their time. Only the people, the American people, the British people, the French people, the German, Polish, Hungarian and Italian people, those deplorables who irritate you liberals so much, can defeat them.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2023
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  20. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    That link looks sus. I don't trust Russian sites like Yandex. But I do trust these poor people:



    All afraid to speak their minds in front of a camera for fear of going to the modern gulag :(
     
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  21. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member Donor

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    :D:D....I watched that this morning....the amount of coy replies is a sad statement on the "freedom" of people wanting to speakout

    "Are there any police around?"

    To be honest I've not got a lot of sympathy for these people...FFS...they all cheered and waved the flag when Crimea was invaded....even Navalny supported it...he may not of liked the method but he was still cheering and wooting....anyway....
     
  22. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    I don't know if they all did. Could be these particular people were as opposed to that as they are to what's happening now. I sympathize with them for being under the heavy boot of an authoritarian government and police state. It's not an enviable situation.
     
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  23. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member Donor

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    yeah I guess they need a Lech Wałęsa wannabe to organise a revolution
     
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  24. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    What an odd combination of sensible thoughts and barking at liberals. You condemn the culture wars even while perpetuating them here a bit, it seems to me.

    Why do you imagine deplorables can defeat fascists when they are the fascists? They're the tRump voters, the white nationalists and xenophobes, those who embrace tRump's lies, including about the last election, and those who are sympathetic to Putin and like him more than they like their fellow liberal, progressive, centrist, moderate, and otherwise non-far-right Americans. They are, in short, people with deplorable views and stances who would trash the Capitol and attempt to overthrow our elected government at the behest of a strong man figure who fires them up with vile and pernicious lies. They're the people who would destroy our republic in their misguided efforts to save it.
     
  25. Heroclitus

    Heroclitus Well-Known Member

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    Yup...this is the problem. Liberals who blame and scald the little people. Liberals who's analysis is so shallow they don't put the economic, class based arguments forward for change. Liberals who have been so captured by a "socially liberal" elite that they tut disapprovingly at the poor white trash who don't like being told it's their fault that their mine has closed, their steel mill has been mothballed or their job moved to Mexico. Liberals who are nothing more than free market exploiters who drive electric cars and have some black and gay friends. It's your fault. When globalisation should have been shaped to benefit those whose jobs got replaced, by the State re-training them, incentivising firms and new tech to move to rustbelt areas, by shaping the way jobs were exported to China with tax incentives or targeted tariffs (as well as by demanding conformity to the rules based international order from countries it traded with). Liberals who oppose every war on principle, except when it's their guy waging it. Liberals who have failed to nation build in any of the countries where they have waged war. In short Liberals who have forgotten the golden age of liberalism (post WW2) and decided to support unfettered capitalism as long as its cool, techy and woke, whatever that means. A liberalism that wallows in the culture wars foisted on them by the neo-fascists instead of rejecting them as a trap and a deceit. Yes it's your fault because the snake oil salesmen sell their filth to those who you have abandoned, people who's votes would confine the real bigots and fascists to the dustbin of history where they belong, if you hadn't alienated them with your patronising scolding and pomposity.

    You want a label for my strange form of dissent? I don't know if I have one but let's say I admire Thomas Frank: https://tcfrank.com

    And in foreign policy I lament the decline of the spirit evoked by Reagan at Pointe d'Hoc and those of us who tried to hold America to it's ideals (something that Reagan certainly didn't do). It's a great speech that would now be universally rejected by the anti-globalist neo-fascists who control today's GOP:

    https://voicesofdemocracy.umd.edu/ronald-reagan-normandy-speech-point-du-hoc/

    That's some ideal. A forgotten liberal ideal. Much more important to blame poor white people for the actions of rich white people and then getting uppity with them when they object. Easier to blame the white poor for racism when you support unfettered free markets (see Clinton) than your new liberal elitist friends who run everything. Remember so friendly were Democrats to such people that Trump was a Democrat once. He only felt uncomfortable due to the intellectual snobbery. Everything else was right about them.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2023

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