Legalizing marijuana

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by 1960s conservative, Mar 6, 2014.

  1. 1960s conservative

    1960s conservative New Member

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    The reefer madness, as we old-timers used to call it, has reached a new high (no pun intended).

    I find it awfully peculiar that many of the people who want to crack down on tobacco users/cigarette smokers by raising taxes, raising their insurance premiums, and even outright banning their presence in certain locations are the same hypocrites who believe marijuana should be welcomed, accepted, and legalized.

    I also believe that making marijuana easily available for medicinal use is just an excuse for people to use it recreationally for a quick high. Let's just assume that this substance has medical benefits. All right, then why are the majority of marijuana patients under age 30? Most people in this age bracket are perfectly healthy and don't need pain relievers.

    Advocates for legalizing marijuana claim alcohol is more dangerous. I don't buy this argument either because both substances create intoxication, and fatal accidents on the roads have occurred from people who have consumed alcohol or any other drug including marijuana.

    There are other reasons to resist legalizing substances like marijuana, including the idea that so-called soft drugs like marijuana often leads to experimentation with harder drugs. Marijuana is also very addictive, and that alone makes it no better or safer than alcohol or tobacco.

    With all this said against the idea of legalization I do think some decriminalization of the substance is in order. Punishing pot users on the same level as punishing murderers is insane; but I still strongly believe that full-blown legalization will hurt society by creating more pot users and more addicts, which will lead to the demand for more rehab, costing taxpayers more money. I also don't believe the argument that the black market will somehow magically disappear if marijuana is made legal. When the amendment to end Prohibition went into effect, the underground market for alcohol still existed, and still exists to this day.

    We as a nation are heading down the wrong path by legalizing dangerous substances like marijuana and ignoring the consequences that go along with such liberal ideas.
     
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  2. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    I personally don't smoke anything except a Cigar on great occasion.

    In Massachusetts Pot was Decriminalized a few years back and since then we have been able to dramatically clear up the courts and have saved MILLIONS of Taxpayer Dollars by no longer prosecuting any person with up to 1 once of pot on them.

    Since having up to 1 ounce of Pot is NOT CRIMINAL...a Cop cannot even ask you for your ID to give you the $100 Ticket so Police announced they would NOT even pursue giving out tickets....thus Pot is LEGAL up to 1 Ounce.

    Contrary to the belief of some people....the sky has not fallen.

    It is a PROVEN MEDICAL FACT....that the level of intoxication by drinking alcohol that equals the approx. intoxication of smoking 1 High Quality and High in THC level Joint....the amount of alcohol needed to be imbibed to equal that level of intoxication is many times more dangerous to a persons body and organs that smoking the Joint.

    Plus....you just don't see anyone who smokes pot wanting to go beat the hell out of someone after they smoked.

    They are much more likely to want to raid the fridge.

    AboveAlpha
     
  3. 1960s conservative

    1960s conservative New Member

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    I have no problem with some decriminalizing if it will free up prison space for the more hardened criminals. It still shouldn't be fully legal though. If some pothead drives his car while stoned and causes a fatal accident, I want that pothead to face the same consequences as a drunk driver. Essentially it is intoxication and falls under the same criteria as DUI. But that pothead could show his card and use the excuse that he was using marijuana for medical reasons, and his sentence could be reduced.

    I'm really tired of the excuse of this substance being used as medicine; and in states where it's legal, potheads can claim any minor pain or ailment as a reason to smoke it. You know as well as I do that in most cases it's being used recreationally, not for true medical reasons.

    I see too many reasons to not legalize it, including the cost of rehabilitation. Who is going to pay for all the rehab when this very addictive substance legally gets in the hands of even more people who become addicts? More than likely, it's going to be our tax money trying to get them to sober up. Yes and marijuana addiction causes increased hunger, and that causes obesity. We have enough of an obesity problem in society as is, we don't need even more fat pot addicts who don't contribute much to society.
     
  4. Hotdogr

    Hotdogr Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You know why us old timers call it that, don't you?
    Yeah, me too. Prohibitionists are haters of personal choice and freedom, all of those prohibitionists. You realize that you are taking the same hypocritical stance, just in reverse, right?
    You're probably right about that. Probably a tiny percentage of medical marijuana users have a legitimate medical need.
    While I personally believe that driving drunk is far more dangerous, you're right. Impaired is impaired.
    The primary reason it is a so-called 'gateway drug' is because people are forced to buy it from the same guys that sell heroin and crack instead of a normal retail outlet. Marijuana is not nearly as physically addictive as alcohol or tobacco. But, you're right, it's no safer either.
    I would posit that the prohibition of marijuana has caused orders of magnitude more death and destruction to society over the last 50 years than marijuana itself ever would have caused. I will tell you this, if people who want to use this weed could grow it themselves, the black market would all but disappear. The prohibition of alcohol gave rise to the most powerful black market and attendant mobs this country had ever seen. Las Vegas was built by one of them. Do you see the alcohol black market as very powerful today? The prohibition of marijuana has given rise to the most deadly drug cartels ever seen on the planet. I cannot imagine that ending that prohibition would seriously improve that problem, as long as government doesn't force legal marijuana prices higher than the cartels and prohibit personal growing.
     
  5. junius. fils

    junius. fils New Member

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    Would someone be so kind as to tell me why doctors can legally prescribe and administer opiates and other potentially addictive drugs/pain-killers but not marijuana?
     
  6. Casper

    Casper Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    Maybe you would feel better with legalization if you knew that there are already laws against driving under the influence of pot or any other drug for that matter, that pot is not physically addictive (hence no need for rehabs), oh and the fact is most pot smokers already do and there would be no measurable increase in use, oh and many of those you think are useless because they smoke pot in their free time come from all areas of society to include judges and police officers along with any other profession you can name.
     
  7. LibertarianFTW

    LibertarianFTW Well-Known Member

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    What does that mean? What do you think should happen to me if I open up a marijuana dispensary?
     
  8. GlobalCitizen

    GlobalCitizen Well-Known Member

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    I just posted my position on drugs in an abortion thread. I disagree with legalizing the deadly drugs (cocaine, crack, heroin, meth, ecstasy, various pain killers, PCP, salvia, and more).

    But marijuana I think we should legalize for many reasons:

    1. It's not feasible to enforce. It costs too much.
    2. It would hurt the cartels dealing the deadly drugs. It would cut into their profits on half their business, in addition to freeing up our DEA agents, border patrol, coast guard, canines, police officers, etc. so that they can concentrate more on the war on the deadly drugs.
    3. Too many people are smoking marijuana. This matters for 3 reasons:
    A) All these people need to buy that marijuana somewhere. Often, almost always, whoever is selling it, is selling other deadly drugs. Contacts are made that don't need to be made.
    B) We are creating a subclass of people with marijuana charges on their record. I believe it has a major impact on our economy in that millions ambitions' are halted by that
    charge, as in they can only hope to work for not much more than min. wage.
    C) All these people who smoke marijuana are criminals under the law. Which means when they see other criminal activity, it lessens the likelihood that they will report it (therefore
    increasing criminal activity). All the person you are accusing has to do is say, well I'm ratting you out for smoking weed.
    4. The incarceration results disproportionately affect one race, blacks. (this in itself makes it unconstitutional imo)


    But just because I think it should be legalized, doesn't mean I think it should be promoted. Parents, teachers, the govt, etc., should continue the campaign against it, and teach children it is wrong.
     
  9. My Fing ID

    My Fing ID Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No we're not. If marijuana were legal today and someone tried to ban it we would all laugh. It is illegal because it is illegal at this point. I find it sad that people oppose legalization. Apparently freedom is an empty word for them.
     
  10. DentalFloss

    DentalFloss Well-Known Member

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    My doctor outright told me decreasing alcohol and increasing marijuana was a good goal to shoot for, despite the fact it's not legal here. It's an indisputable fact that it's lest toxic.

    Drug warrior propaganda, simply not true.

    Outright false. While someone might have a mental craving for it, it is not physiologically addictive. No person has ever died because of using it, the amount required to overdose is basically a tractor trailer full, and there are no withdrawal symptoms associated with discontinuation of it, no matter how heavy a user was. You've been lied to your entire life, and you've heard it so many times, you believe it so much, that you are here yourself repeating lies as indisputable fact.

    Recreational use of marijuana in those under 40 is, in my world anyway, damn near universal. Nobody gives it a second thought.
     
  11. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    Frankly I think alcohol is far more dangerous. In the 80's I was twice arrested while drunk... but when I was stoned I watched T.V. and ate Doritos. I use to volunteer at a State Prison and most of the inmates I talked with were there on alcohol related crimes.

    A general google search will turn up Tobacco and alcohol as the gateway drugs before pot.

    "A new study in mice shows how tobacco products could act as gateway drugs, opening the door to use of illicit drugs. Nicotine, the researchers found, makes the brain more susceptible to cocaine addiction. The finding suggests that lowering smoking rates in young people might help reduce cocaine abuse."

    "Scientists have long recognized that cigarettes and alcohol raise the risk for later use of illicit drugs like marijuana and cocaine. In a recent national survey, over 90% of adult cocaine users between the ages of 18 and 34 had smoked cigarettes before they began using cocaine."

    http://www.nih.gov/researchmatters/november2011/11212011nicotine.htm

    "Alcohol — not marijuana — is the gateway drug that leads adolescents down the path toward more serious substances, a new University of Florida study shows."

    http://news.ufl.edu/2012/07/10/alcohol-gateway/

    You speaking from experience here? I smoked a lot of pot back in the 80's and you know how hard it was to quit? It wasn't... I just one day decided to quit and had no adverse effect on me. Tobacco on the other hand was a bee with an itch to quit!!!

    I have not smoked pot in a great many years... its just not my thing anymore... but its certainly not what you make it out to be. To me it sounds like you bought into those old reefer madness movies.
     
  12. Montoya

    Montoya Banned

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    Honestly who really buys into the "gateway drug" nonsense nowadays?
     
  13. Magron

    Magron Banned

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    At the state and local levels you can sometimes get a little sanity because some few actual humans are still in charge at that level.
    You'll never see the Feds let it go.. it's far too powerful and useful a political tool. It'll never happen.
     
  14. Magron

    Magron Banned

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    see there? when you make stories up and put them in your post you lose all credibility.
    the medical community and even the government has had to admit for years now pot isn't addictive.
    tsk. aren't you ashamed?
     
  15. MasTequila

    MasTequila New Member Past Donor

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    I think it should be legal, I believe all drugs should be legal. It is a persons choice to live or to screw up their life. The government should protect our borders, protect us and make sure our civil liberties are protected. Other than that, stay the eff out of our lives.
     
  16. DentalFloss

    DentalFloss Well-Known Member

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    It's quite simple. I am a free human being. Throughout history, tyrants and governments have denied rights to free human beings, but with no justification, only the threat of, and willingness to use violence to enforce their rules. As a free human being, I own my body, and as such, it's mine to do with as I will. Just as I can take every dollar I own and put it into a fire, because it's mine, I have the right to damage my body as I see fit. Now, if there were a drug that literally made my body explode and take out 3 city blocks, well, there is something the government has a legitimate interest in preventing, obviously. But if I'm only harming myself? Even if I manage to kill myself, it's nobodies business, and nobody has the moral authority to make me follow their commands.

    I answer to nobody but myself.
     
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  17. SFJEFF

    SFJEFF New Member

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    I believe that the same laws that apply to cigarettes and alcohol should apply to pot. I find that the same people who complain about the government intruding in their lives are more than willing to have the government intrude in the lives of others- if they smoke pot.

    You may believe that. But I have been to medical marijuana clubs and have seen the people there in wheel chairs and clearly in the middle of a course of chemo treatment. I also think you are pullling your numbers out of your...hat. But I readily admit that many people use medical marijuana recreationally.

    But- do you have the same objection to Viagra and Cialis? Seriously you don't think there are that many men in America who need that many erection prescriptions? Those are the ultimate recreational drugs.

    Well lets look at the facts- both marijuana and alcohol are intoxicants- and lets assume for a moment that marijuana impairs driving exactly the same as alcohol. But alcohol is also poisonous. Every year people die of alcohol poisoning. The point isn't really that alcohol is more dangerous- though I believe it is- more on that below- but that the very reasons that alcohol is legal is why pot should be legal.

    'leads to harder drugs'- you do realize that virtually anyone who smoke pot- drinks alcohol and smokes cigarettes before they try pot? By that reasoning you would want to ban those drugs.

    Now cigarettes are extremely addictive- nicotine is up there with cocaine in addictiveness- and alcohol is well known to be addictive- they are called alcoholics. But pot is not physically addictive. It just isn't. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to you. Now people can get addicted to pot like they get 'addicted' to gambling- but a person stopping pot suddenly is not going to go through DT's.

    When it comes to addiction- or poisoning- Pot is safer than either cigarettes or alcohol.

    I assume you drink. Lets pretend you do. Do you buy your alcohol from a shady guy on a street corner- or do you go to your local grocery store or State run alcohol shop? I have never seen or heard of anyone selling black market alcohol personally- other than the show about moonshiners I don't think I have even heard of anyone selling black market alcohol in recent times.

    Legal- regulated alcohol has driven all but a small- tiny- percentage of all black market alcohol from the market.

    And ending Prohibition achieved several things-
    a) It stopped the money for alcohol from flowing from Americans to gangsters
    b) It stopped most of the violence that resulted from a
    c) America reduced its spending on enforcing Prohibition
    d) Fewer Americans died from blackmarket adulterated alcohol(this was a major problem- thousands of Americans died from bad alcohol)
    e) Otherwise ordinary law abiding Americans were no longer breaking the law.
    f) Money that previously went to dangerous criminals went instead to legitimate business men and taxes for the government.

    We know that Prohibition was a big failure. Our Prohibition on Pot has been just as big- and has gone exactly the same way as our Prohibition on alcohol.

    The legalization of pot in Washington and Colorado are going to be watched- California and other states will learn from their experiences and craft even better legalization laws.

    Why do you consider allowing adults to do drink or smoke pot a liberal idea?

    What Conservative ideal demands that government tell adults what they can do?
     
  18. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The problem with your opinion is that it is not informed. Driving stoned, while not recommended, is not comparable to driving drunk. There is not a pot-driving problem. In one study after the first joint the participants drove better.

    Alcohol affects motor function directly and pot does not. You are making up a boogie man that does not exist.

    I am tired of control freaks giving their uninformed opinions. Clearly you have never known anyone has cancer and uses pot. The alternatives do not work near as well and they are way nastier drugs.

    What is wrong with using pot recreationally ?

    This is beyond uninformed. There are no withdrawl symptoms of any significance with pot as it is not addictive like cigarettes and alcohol.

    There is a difference between having a belief and forcing that belief on someone else. If you don't like pot then don't smoke it.

    If you value freedom for yourself then you should respect the freedom of others. You know .. the Golden rule "do unto others"
     
  19. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    DOPEC is bigger than OPEC.

    Make Pot legal and tax it and it will generate billions.

    right now an oz. of pot costs say $300. It costs less than $5 to actually produce that oz. (even hydroponically in your basement). The government could impose a $200 tax on each oz. and it would STILL be extremely profitable for producers and distributors.

    Billions I tells ya, not to mention a big bump in the snack food industry.

    And while we're at it, hemp should also be totally legalized and utilized in the hundreds of different applications its ideally suited for.
     
  20. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Because they've long been established to have very specific and measurable benefits with recognisable and manageable side-effects. They're tested, proscribed in carefully controlled doses for limited periods of time under clinical supervision.

    A similar position could be reached with marijuana (or extracts thereof) but I fear there are too many people with a vested interest in a more open and unregulated distribution to permit the work necessary to make that happen.
     
  21. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

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    The fact is marijuna is not addictive. Marijuna is scientifically proven to have amazing medical benefits which no other known drugs can produce. An example is chemo patients very often find that it eliminates the pain and nausea associated with chemotherapy and with no side effects other than a feeling of being high and the munchies. All other drugs for combating the side effects of chemo have side effects of their own leading to a dominoe affect of drugs to fix what other drugs cause.

    Yes anyone high on anything can cause auto accidents and it does happen but most marijuna users do not bother to drive they just get high and sit around far more accidents are caused by drunk drivers than stoned drivers.

    It is statistically proven that most harcore drug users do not identify marijuana as a gateway drug. The most common gate way drug is alcohol.

    The violent black market for mrijuna would in fact cease to exist if it were legalized. Sure there would still be some form of a blackmarket but no where near what we see today. Just like your example of alcohol is there still a small black market for it ? Sure but it is miniscule and with little or no violence involved.

    When alcohol prohibition was repealed alcohol consumption and abuse did not increase it actually declined slightly until the second world war.
    There is no reason to believe legalization will increase use of marijuana.

    For the record I never touch the stuff
     
  22. 1960s conservative

    1960s conservative New Member

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    There are DUI laws, but what I'm saying is someone who is intoxicated from using marijuana could pull the old "I'm using pot for medicinal purposes" excuse and get a lesser sentence, especially if he has a medical marijuana card. I think it's 15 states - could be more now - that allow people to have a medical marijuana card, but it's often not for legitimate medical reasons. All they have to do is complain about a minor ache or pain that may or may not exist & get a card with a doctor's permission.

    I have homes in 2 states where medical marijuana is legal, but I know people who possess cards and use it recreationally - not for medical reasons. You can walk down the street in San Diego, Los Angeles, Las Vegas, or Phoenix and see young people smoking joints. Those potheads greatly outnumber people who use it for a medical benefit. And please don't tell me that pot isn't addictive. My wife & I have friends who got started on marijuana and want to quit but they find it very hard to give up the habit. One of them was recently diagnosed with cancer as a result from years of pot addiction, so it's just as bad or worse than tobacco. Marijuana doesn't help cancer - it causes cancer!

    Pot addiction creates laziness and extreme hunger, and many people who become addicted often become unproductive citizens - miss work, go on eating binges, become obese, and basically useless. Too many reasons to not have marijuana legal or classified as a legitimate drug while booze and cigarettes are classified as highly addictive and more dangerous. Wrong! All of those things including marijuana or any other substance are highly addictive and dangerous.
     
  23. Sadistic-Savior

    Sadistic-Savior New Member Past Donor

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    The government is not your parent. You need to make decisions for yourself.

    It is legal here in Colorado and I have not noticed any increase in crime. Nothing has changed at all.
     
  24. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    time to end the war on drugs, been going on long enough and it's easier now to get drugs then when it started, prohibition doesn't work, it just creates crime lords and makes recreational activities criminal, just like when alcohol was made illegal
     
  25. 1960s conservative

    1960s conservative New Member

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    Yes I do speak from experience. I just replied to another poster that I know people who have medical marijuana cards but don't use pot for medical purposes. They smoke it because they want that quick high feeling. They all want to quit but can't because of the addiction, so in that respect it's no better than tobacco. With the intoxication effect it's worse than tobacco.

    Reefer is what we used to call marijuana back in the 1950s and '60s when I was young, and that's the time period when young people were starting to openly experiment with the substance. They became the hippies and derelicts during the time. And you know what? After they tried pot, they went to other more dangerous substances such as LSD and cocaine. Pot addiction can and does lead people down the road to ruin in more ways than one.
     

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