More black people jailed in England and Wales proportionally than in US

Discussion in 'Race Relations' started by rayznack, Dec 28, 2014.

  1. rayznack

    rayznack Well-Known Member

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    This is an old article, but I'm curious what some here think the reason(s) for the proportionally higher levels of Black crime in 'Britain' is/are?

    The article shows Blacks in England and Wales are seven times as likely to be in prison as the general population compared to the US where Blacks are four times as likely.

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2010/oct/11/black-prison-population-increase-england
     
  2. ThirdTerm

    ThirdTerm Well-Known Member

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    The Guardian is Britain's only liberal newspaper and black prisoners' data provided by the paper may be slightly inaccurate to exaggerate the race problem in the British penal system. Out of the British national prison population, 11% are black and 6% are Asian and black Britons make up 2.8% of the general British population. As is the case with African Americans, black Britons are four times more likely to be jailed than the general population in the UK.

     
  3. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

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    I am not Black -- I can not even imagine what the experience of racism is like. Minorities, victims of abuse, people with disorders are overrepresented among prisoners.
     
  4. rayznack

    rayznack Well-Known Member

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    Maybe certain groups are more violent than others?
     
  5. therooster

    therooster Banned

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    Hard to ignore this theory.
     
  6. Fugazi

    Fugazi New Member Past Donor

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    Or maybe certain groups are targeted more than others.
     
  7. rayznack

    rayznack Well-Known Member

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    So Blacks have a higher homicide offender rate because they're targeted more than Whites?
     
  8. Egalitarianjay02

    Egalitarianjay02 Banned

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    The cause is poverty and other environmental factors. It has nothing to do with genetics.

    The history of violence of people of European descent absolutely negates the idea that Whites are less violent than Blacks.

    Attempts to find an evolutionary explanation for this claim were refuted.

     
  9. rayznack

    rayznack Well-Known Member

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    Please put into your own words that universally higher Black criminality is environmental rather than partially genetic.

    I'm curious if you have responses to studies showing Blacks having higher frequency of certain genes linked to aggression and violence.
     
  10. Egalitarianjay02

    Egalitarianjay02 Banned

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    First of all it's not "universal." America and Britain are not the entire world. There are countries in Africa and the Caribbean with medium to low crime rates compared to industrialized nations (Source: Comparative Criminology). Environmental differences easily explain the disproportionately high crime rates of Blacks in countries like America and Britain. Institutionalized racist discrimination created a socioeconomic disparity in America and many Black immigrants to Britain come from poor countries. Poverty motivated people to commit crimes and poor people often raise children in a bad environment where drug abuse, physical abuse and peer pressure influences poor people in to committing crimes. Combine that with the temptations of the inner city (e.g. guns and drugs) and you have a recipe for disaster.

    My source explains in detail why a partial genetic explanation is invalid. You should give it a read and as I already explained the history of violence of people of European descent negates the partial genetic argument. Whites have been as violent as any group if not more so.

    I've never come across a study that concluded that Blacks have higher frequencies of certain genes linked to aggression and violence. I have come across interpretations by racist bloggers such as Nooffensebut asserting the claim but he has no verified credentials to interpret these studies and has an obvious agenda. To make the claim you would have to do a genome-wide analysis of the groups in question and show that there are different frequencies of these genes in these populations. To my knowledge this has not been done.

    I emailed the author of one of the studies on Brunner Syndrome about race, genetics and aggressive behavior to see what he made of Nooffensebut's interpretation but I did not get a reply. I emailed Dr. Graves about this subject and this is what he had to say:


     
  11. Sab

    Sab Active Member

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    Black people cause more crime than white people because of a culture of single motherhood, disdain for education, a refusal to take responsibility for their own lives, a worship of cultural icons that are limited to Sport and Music combined with an expectation that their issues need to be solved by an outside agency.
     
  12. Fugazi

    Fugazi New Member Past Donor

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    Quite possibly along with other contributive issues
     
  13. rayznack

    rayznack Well-Known Member

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    Why would being profiled more by police officers lead Black to kill far more often than Whites?
     
  14. rayznack

    rayznack Well-Known Member

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    So these Caribbean nations have other races existing with Blacks to compare with the Black crime rate? I'm comparing Black and non-Black crimes rates in the same country.


    This is true with East Asians. Yet East Asians have lower crime rates than the White population.

    There are more poor Whites in the US than poor Blacks yet more Blacks are in prison than Whites.

    It's curious you're clinging to the inner city to explain criminality amongst Blacks when a century ago sociologists were claiming the inner city was reason East Asians and Jews had lower crime rates.

    More evidence that the socio-economic argument cannot fully explain higher Black criminality.

    Why don't you put your source into your own words?
     
  15. rayznack

    rayznack Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure if you looked at criminality race statistics in NYC a century-and-a-half ago, Blacks would have had higher criminality rates before these issues crept into Black culture.
     
  16. Glock

    Glock Well-Known Member

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    Hard to ignore this theory.
     
  17. rayznack

    rayznack Well-Known Member

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    What's the theory, exactly? That being stopped by a police officer results in Blacks raping at a rate three times higher than Whites?

    And how do you know you don't have your cause-effect reversed.

    Perhaps Blacks are 'targeted' more because of their higher crime rates in Britain and the US?
     
  18. Egalitarianjay02

    Egalitarianjay02 Banned

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    Why? Isn't the issue whether or not Blacks commit more crime because they are naturally more aggressive? Why then would you not consider how some majority Black countries compare to other countries when it comes to crime rate?




    East Asian immigrants predominately come from poor countries?

    A lot of poor Whites live in rural areas. It's the urban areas where most of the crime is committed.

    Several decades ago Italians and Irish were labeled as troublesome groups because of organized crime in their communities, also stemming from the inner city. The inner city because it is more crowded than rural areas allows more opportunity for crimes to be committed.

    I already did. The history of violence of people of European descent (and Asians for that matter) negates the claim that they are less violent than Blacks. Additionally my sources talked about hormone biology and how the claim that higher testosterone levels increases criminal behavior is invalid. There is no racial hierarchy in testosterone levels. Testosterone does not make people more violent and the level the hormone varies according to daily and seasonal rhythms. There is simply no biological basis to claim that races differ in levels of aggression and that some are more prone to criminality than others.
     
  19. rayznack

    rayznack Well-Known Member

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    Comparisons between populations in one society are more revealing than comparisons between different societies.

    Case-in-point, a tropical, tourist-based economy is hardly comparable to most nations.

    Are you not aware of East Asian immigration to the United States from the 19th to the first half of the 20th century?

    Conversely, a lot of crime is committed in urban areas because that's where Blacks largely live.

    Previously, when East Asian and Jewish ghettos existed, crime in those areas was lower than non-East Asian and non-Jewish concentrated urban areas.

    You're repeating conventional wisdom for Irish neighborhoods - Irish organized crime was localized. It's interesting to note your contradictory arguments when you claim Blacks perform poorly on IQ tests because of a stereotype effect that carries over generationally but for the Irish this seems to have vanished within a short time frame compared to Blacks.

    I also believe there is a IQ/genetic explanation as to why Sicilians/southern Italians are disproportionately involved in organized crime compared to northern Europeans.



    Comparing eras is beyond poor reasoning. I figured you actually had an argument 'negating' the genetic theory of Black criminality beyond comparing Imperial Japanese policies (which weren't a crime in Japanese society - duh) to Black rape rates in the US.

    Why are males more violent, or male violence more excessive, than female violence?
     
  20. Fugazi

    Fugazi New Member Past Donor

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    I didn't say it did
     
  21. rayznack

    rayznack Well-Known Member

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  22. Fugazi

    Fugazi New Member Past Donor

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  23. rayznack

    rayznack Well-Known Member

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    So how would checks of Blacks possibly result in Blacks committing more homicide?
     
  24. Fugazi

    Fugazi New Member Past Donor

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    Again I didn't say that, I said it could possibly be, remember that word and what it means, "along with other contributive issues"
     
  25. rayznack

    rayznack Well-Known Member

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    How could stopping blacks for checks possibly result in higher homicide rates?

    If you have no idea how are you able to claim something is possible?
     

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