Mormon church opposes federal LGBTQ nondiscrimination measure

Well, if they do, it's likely because they don't see gays as suffering from discrimination. They work as openly gay people in every part of society. We have openly gay athletes, pols, and managers. They are not denied services, even at supposedly homophobic Chick Fil A.

We have too many laws as it is.

 

Right, and liberals aren't leftists. Not necessarily, anyway. JFK, LBJ, John Kerry, even Hillary, all liberal, but not leftist.

 

And you think the gummit has caught up with more than a teensy fraction of people who have bought their kids' way in public universities?

 

Such people live in an alternate universe.

 

The problem I have with some people who hold your views about wealth accumulation is that they often don't understand the economic system is tilted in favor of people who acquire income as a return to capital (investing)--people like me--as opposed to a return to labor (wages).

American workers have not shared in wealth society has created over the last four decades.



Democrats lost the support of some workers--enough to cost them the Presidency--because they stopped fighting for Joe and Jane American and got tight instead with upper-income types who are out to save the planet, minorities, women, and so on. Trump's tax cuts were traditional Republicanism where 85% of the personal tax cuts went to people making $400,000 per year.

If we don't find some way of getting Joe and Jane American some of the growing pie, we risk losing their support for the free enterprise system.

 

Correct. Most of us shift around somewhere in the middle, often holding liberal ideas on some matters and conservative ideas on others.

I think those outside this great mainstream--Antifa on the left, militia on the right, etc.--will have a rude awakening if they grab for power. The middle likes this country and their way of life and want someone in power who will work out our problems, from workers getting a better cut of the pie to some of the social issues ranging from gun rights and abortion on the left to abortion on the left and gay rights. I put abortion on both sides because there are strong feelings for and against. Immigration is another issue calling for compromise.

 

What discrimination do gays suffer that is correctable by enforceable legislation? (I don't mean that they aren't the butt of jokes and suffer some social ostracization in some places.) I live in the South, and as I said, they are all over the place and occupy prominent positions in our society. Presumably in the more "progressive" parts of the country it's the same.

 

Chick Fil A won't hire openly gay workers. Gays are not a protected class, and therefore, it's not actually illegal to refuse to hire them. They are not allowed to ASK a applicants sexual orientation, as it is illegal in almost every state to require any personal information on a job application that has nothing to do with the job, but they can legally refuse to hire someone based solely on them being openly gay.

 

What would you suggest? They already have the same chance to save and to buy shares of Exxon and McDonalds that I do. Many lower and middle class people are very careless with their money. I'm not agreeing to just giving them more money. They'd just blow it.

There are too many Asians who came as refugees, with nothing, who now own their businesses to make me believe there is a lack of opportunity. Look at the junk some people spend their money on: tattoos, shiny rhinestones for their cell phones, drugs, cigarettes, fancy coffee from Starbucks, heck, fancy cell phones themselves as far as that goes. Why do they need an iPhone when a $100 flip phone will work as well?

Go ask a prominent Chinese in your community how he spends his money and see what he tells you. Starbucks, iPhones and tattoos are pretty far down his list.

 

Utter b.s. They can legally refuse to hire them, but they don't.

Never mind that Chick-fil-A has never been accused of discrimination against gays and lesbians in hiring, promotions, or customer service, or that, in 2016, in the wake of a mass-shooting at a gay club in Orlando, Florida, it broke with its Sunday-closing rule to deliver hundreds of free chicken sandwiches to first responders and donors of blood to wounded survivors. (Piepenbring is conspicuously silent about Orlando.)
https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2018/04/the-sins-of-chick-fil-a

Even if that were true, and it isn't, I don't want federal legislation for the purpose of telling ONE company, out of thousands, what to do.

 

is that a fact? I don't believe it, though you can probably trot out some anecdotal evidence to prove that some gay person at some Chick Fil A got fired, or wore a feather boa and a pink speedo to an interview and didn't get hired.

 

They also give money to groups that called for homosexuality to be a capital offense. So.........

 

Probably yes

 

No they don't, though I wouldn't care if they did. They have given some money with some members who decry homosexuality as a sin according to the bible, which it is. They also give money to some good causes.

You are playing a kind of 7 degrees of Kevin Bacon, and for what? You really think we need a federal law to protect homosexuals from one company whose hiring policy doesn't say one word about sexual orientation?

Here's a nice if -- lonely -- article about how horrible Chick File A is. Interestingly, not a single one of the listed cars alleges discrimination for sexual orientation.

https://www.facingsouth.org/2012/08/chick-fil-as-history-of-workplace-discrimination

Meanwhile the lines at Chick Fil A keep getting longer. Some of then support is backlash against baseless claims of homophobia, which you are making now. Every time I read another silly story about this company I go and buy another sandwich.

 

A different question and one that should be answered before we pass laws to remedy discrimination.

We're past the era where people thought a straight person could get converted to being gay, so most straight people are no longer afraid of being around homosexuals. We may not be far from a time when discrimination is much of an issue.

Not to change the subject, but ... I wonder if science will find a genetic cause and we'll know how to make sure people are straight. Would we? Should we?

 

That is complete BS. The manager at my local Chick Fil A is openly gay and from what I can tell does an excellent job. When you hear his voice on the intercom you would swear it is a woman, but the guy looks like a sports jock. Is really weird until you get used to him, he is like Micheal Jackson's voice in Zac Efron's body.

Come to think of it, I've never been in a poorly run Chick Fil A, probably something to do with the high moral standards of the owners...

 

I'm not sure I can support putting some dude who is pretending to be a chick in public housing and putting a single mother and her child on the street because the real chick was further down the 'equality' list. Yep, that's where this nonsense leads, thank goodness Republicans are looking out for the vast majority of Americans who aren't mentally unstable...

 

I don't think there's a single solution, especially not one that collectivizes production. Socialism is not the answer, although some income redistribution is probably necessary. I agree with you about some people being poor money managers. Often it's simply spending too much and saving too little. The people who won't set money aside for their retirement can't expect the rest of us to spring for their good times. I'm okay with forcing people into a savings program like Social Security so they have a roof over their heads and food to eat.

There's less opportunity that there was fifty years ago. The mom and pop store, hotel, gas station, and so on have been taken over by big business. Still, there are opportunities. I taught senior high students and adults how to start a business--evaluating the idea to creating a business plan.

Flip phone? You're a fossil. I agree with you, however. Overall, Americans spend way too much and save too little. I'm taken aback by how many people in my neighborhood park their vehicles on the street because their garage is filled with stuff.

 

Hohhhh-Kayyyy....

 

And very comfortable.

 

I actually think things were better before cell phones when every family had just one, heavy phone, made of ebonite.

 

What I don't get--watching a movie on a cell phone.

 

I was talking to a woman once who had Netflix on her phone, and I asked when she would ever use something like that. "Oh, you know, when I'm driving or something."

 

yes, the cake thing was discrimination, SCOTUS approved of slavery once too

 

I have seen no impact from the change other then allowing two people that love each other to marry and enjoy the same benefits opposite sex couples have

they tried civil Unions first, but the right would not honor them the same as marriage under the law, so they had to fight for the right to marry