Most Europeans want to STOP migration from Muslim countries, study finds

You had a belief system going on that overshadowed the political, economic and cultural realities. During this time many Swedes felt their 'values' were superior, those societies who didn't adopt them were inferior, and that immigrants would gladly see their wisdom, happily adopt them, and that these immigrants would gladly pay for your generous social programs - something that became a 'right'- in order to live in such an enlightened and generous society.. There are naive millions in the democracies who still feel the same, who haven't yet learned the 'Swedish Lesson', though luckily it seems their numbers are falling rapidly into the minority..

Sweden is now being used as an example of what will happen to other democracies who import this primitive political/religious belief system - and unrealistic Socialists everywhere are to blame.

 

In order for you to make such a statement you would need to have the advantage of understanding life in Sweden specifically, and more accurately during the Olaf Palme era. Your fundamental qualification is an academic one. Am I right?

 

No, I'm not an academician - indeed I left school without a single educational qualification to my name.

 

But you were still able to read the writing on the wall.

“There are some ideas so absurd that only an intellectual could believe them.” G.O.

 

I might not be intellectual but I have common sense in spades.

Good ol' George, he was no fool. Not sure where it leaves me though. Sometimes I just don't get philosophical stuff.

 

We have a rather longer tradition of immigration than what the 'homogeneous Sweden' thinking people from abroad believe. In part you are right however: We have always noted that immigrants to Sweden have accepted our generosity and have appreciated our offer of a better life. Or as you say "Swedes felt their 'values' were superior". But I hope when you say that you realize it is felt with a warmth and humanitarian glow, not a snobbish smirk.

Our problems are these: A weak-minded government that was left to us after the death of Olaf Palme - making a 180 degree turn by aligning ourselves with the US - and yes (you are right) a naïve belief that the whole world appreciates peace, honesty, and prosperity through sharing, rather than hoarding. So what we are doing is taking in a few gazillion lazy, thieving, primitive souls (who admittedly know no better) and expecting them to be in awe of our 'superior values'. Well!

- - - Updated - - -

But you admit that your opinion is little more than that, as it pertains to Sweden. Yes? That is the point.

 

I'm a simple man who likes to keep things simple: I have concluded that your excesssive hospitality toward foreigners from very different cultures is naive in the extreme, and the conflicting cultures will occasion discord and strife with the indigenous population. I dare hardly tell you there is much worse to come, because they have no respect for the Swedish people who welcomed them - indeed they despise them for their tolerance and liberal values. And most important of all . . . they do not fear the consequences of their barbaric conduct.

 

Your assessment is a very good one, including the now common error that other cultures will adapt to the Swedish (American, Canadian, Dutch, French) way of life because of their obvious superiority to others. Sadly these 'others' don't feel the same way and it is the hosts who are having to adapt - when sufficient numbers of the newcomers are reached. All these lessons we're now learning are coming a little late, except for Eastern Europe perhaps.

I have long felt that Western Europeans spent too much time criticizing the US while deliberately overlooking what's going on in their own countries and have ignored, to our own mutual peril, the commonalities all democracies should share..We should have united under a common banner rather than have a monstrosity like the UN, where brutal dictatorships share the same forum under equal terms. We pretend and hope rather than dealing with the possibility that past wars and struggles could ever arise again.

 

We share a common educational background and my only regret is that I didn't quit school earlier. And I don't believe for a moment that you don't get the 'philosophical stuff'.

 

Muslims are lining up to die for their beliefs while Europeans submit to their stronger culture, still hoping they will eventually come to their senses.. Eventually they will fight back but by then it will be a lot more difficult, and with a great deal more turmoil.

 

My headmaster was glad to see the back of me! His parting words were 'Cerberus, you're destined to be one of life's losers. Go forth but don't multiply.' Only kidding!

Well I can provided it isn't too profound. In fact I've been known to come up with a bit of home-spun philosophy myself now and then.

 

Spot on Fred. I'm not sure if it's because our liberalism has made us stupid beyond belief, arrogant enough to believe we know what's best for them, or totally naive. But whichever it is, I fear we haven't heard the last of 'Islam'.

 

All of the above - definitely.

 

How is it possible any Europeans would not be rejoicing over their Muslim immigrants being that all Muslim immigrants are loving, wonderful people who only want to be free and only benefit countries they enter?

 

Your adjusted comments can be discussed with some merit, but for the while I'd like to reiterate that your 'insight' to our/my/Sweden's political philosophy is founded on neither personal experience nor academic study. So I am still wondering what it is you were trying to tell me when you said that I "like most liberals" are "learning the hard way the difference between liberalism and pragmatism" and that "liberal values do not work in practice".

This is utterly unqualified and incorrect.

 

Yes. If we take a look at parents who are alcoholics, drug abusers, physical/psychological child molesters, we often see that their children are conditioned to believe that honour/devotion to family is the most important value in life. Therefore, informing on their parents is unthinkable. Then there is the man or woman who sticks with his/her abusive spouse. It all looks very much like your example about "Muslims lining up to die for their beliefs". They are being held ransom by primitive cultural taboos - and we simply cannot reach them - not en masse in any case, and that's what we've got: masses and masses of them right in our midst.

 

Sorry but I can't express myself better than I already have. Like are most Swedes, I perceive you to be liberally-minded; liberals seem not to understand the difference between doing the right thing for the greater good (in other words in the best interests of all citizens), so when things go wrong (as the situation in your country has?) only then do you realise that what you did wasn't the right thing, therefore you hadn't acted pragmatically; and I have a long-held belief that 'liberal values do not work in practice'. These are my core beliefsat an overall level, therefore I don't agree with your conclusion that my opinions are 'unqualified and incorrect'.

 

Most Europeans are old and dying

 

King Sobieski rolls in his grave. Battle of Vienna goes down the drain. Europe has become weak because of liberalism

 

Perceive? What do you mean "peceive"? Read post # 72

Jesus wept. How long is it that anything that works needs readjusting? You know nothing about Scandinavia what-so-ever, I can see that. When you wake from your dreams of pseudo-clarity take a look at
* the 'International Democracy Index'(http://www.economist.com/media/pdf/DEMOCRACY_TABLE_2007_v3.pdf= but preferably the up-date
and
* the 'Good Country Index' (https://goodcountry.org/index/overall-rankings).
Take a cup of strong coffee first, just to be certain your eyes are wide open.
''liberal values do not work in practice" ..... indeed!

Obviously. You have neither personal experience nor an academic qualifications. No malice intended but how could you possibly express fantasy in a way that would supercede fact?

 

Perhaps you cannot reach them but they are reaching you. They will tell you what you may or may not publish, what you must teach in your schools and even, more recently, what you can wear at the beach.

I see few liberals in the States or Europe marching against the Muslim treatment of women, child marriages, genital mutilation, and so on. Even when there is widespread sexual assault on children, as happened in the UK, Liberals are largely silent and it has been Liberals (or Socialists if you prefer) who have been most influential in designing European policies. Anything contrary to their policies was 'right wing', 'extreme right wing', 'Nazis', Fascist' and so on, making any real debate on public policy very difficult. The accusation of "islamophobia", a legitimate response btw, also made Leftists nervous.

Sooner or later all this craziness must come to a head, and that process is happening now.

 

I am with you 100%. However, as much as I do not want to alienate or confuse you ... I must tell you that I am a liberal. A Socialist. In the confusion of how to differentiate the "with us" from the "against us" in American "black & white", "love it or leave it", 'two-party' system the population of the US has devised a simple (but inaccurate) system of knowing who's who. A kind of a cheat sheet. You know, like Bush Baby used to have written in the palm of his hand whenever he made a public speech:

America - GOOD
Iran - BAD

Know what I mean?

But I am European. We've got oodles of different political parties, some only slightly different from another one. The upshot is that I am a Socialist but I am absolutely against the globalists that you lump into a pile and call 'liberals'. But from your angle I understand your point of view anyway.

Yes, this wave of the most primitive of homo sapiens is a scourge. They are rampant and remind me of the looters (remember them?) who took everything that was not welded into place when the invasion of Baghdad was in full swing. The b'stards are doing the same thing here in Europe and the do-gooders of our government are just standing aside, wringing their hands with benevolent shadows on their faces. And if the rest of us so much as exclaim, "Look! They are raping our culture!" we'll be hauled off to cool our heels for a couple of hours in jail for expressing a racist attitude and (worse!) hurting the monkey's feelings.

 

Can't you stick to polluting the other thread with your bug-eyed BS?

 

He was objecting to the fact that in my followup post I gave the figures without the undecided respondents. I thought it was useful to look at the figures for the people who offered an opinion one way or the other.

 

Disarmingly honest of you. Pay no attention to the pile of hatred and drivel you got served up in response from our Thingumy friend.