Mueller for Dummies: A Brief Summary

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Golem, Apr 28, 2019.

  1. Nemesis

    Nemesis Well-Known Member

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    Or, you could cite to the Mueller Report and point out why those clowns weren't charged. But you won't. You'd see things that you wouldn't like, and get a rash or something. But look above! Yay!
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2019
  2. Nemesis

    Nemesis Well-Known Member

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    From the link in post # 175--and these excerpts show that Bonespurs and his squad of dimwits lied and obstructed:

    'One qualification before proceeding to the analysis in Part II: a significant amount of relevant information was unavailable to Mueller due to four factors. First, as the Report states, “several individuals affiliated with the Trump Campaign lied to the Office,” and “those lies materially impaired the investigation of Russian election interference.” Second, President Trump’s interference in the investigation also appears to have stymied the investigation. A key example is Paul Manafort’s failure to cooperate with the Special Counsel because he was apparently led to believe that President Trump would pardon him. Third, some individuals used encrypted communications or deleted their communications. Fourth, some of the individuals who “cooperated” with the investigation (e.g., Steve Bannon) appear to have been deceptive or not fully forthcoming in their dealings with the Special Counsel. Several individuals failed to recall the content of important conversations with Trump or other Campaign associates. The Report states, “Even when individuals testified or agreed to be interviewed, they sometimes provided information that was false or incomplete.”

    Finally, some tips for reading the Mueller Report. It is important to keep in mind that the Report’s analysis is about whether or not to prosecute someone for a crime. Furthermore, statements that the investigation “did not establish” something occurred are not the same as saying there was “no evidence” that it occurred. The Report has clear ways of saying when the investigation found no evidence. It conveys the absence of any evidence when, for example, it states the investigation “did not identify evidence” or “did not uncover evidence” that something occurred. Even then, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. When there is “evidence of absence,” the Special Counsel was willing to say the investigation “established” effectively that something did not occur. For example, the Report states that the investigation “established” that interactions between the Russian Ambassador and Campaign officials at certain locations were “brief, public, and non-substantive.” That finding excludes the possibility that something more nefarious occurred in those particular interactions. A keen eye on these kinds of distinctions is important when reading the Report itself.

    There's more, boys!
     
  3. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Great.

    Maybe you could point that out for me, since you seem to think you know the answer.

    Share with us.
     
  4. Nemesis

    Nemesis Well-Known Member

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    More from the link in post #175:

    1. Trump was receptive to a Campaign national security adviser’s (George Papadopoulos) pursuit of a back channel to Putin.

    2. Kremlin operatives provided the Campaign a preview of the Russian plan to distribute stolen emails.

    3. The Trump Campaign chairman and deputy chairman (Paul Manafort and Rick Gates) knowingly shared internal polling data and information on battleground states with a Russian spy; and the Campaign chairman worked with the Russian spy on a pro-Russia “peace” plan for Ukraine.

    4. The Trump Campaign chairman periodically shared internal polling data with the Russian spy with the expectation it would be shared with Putin-linked oligarch, Oleg Deripaska.

    5. Trump Campaign chairman Manafort expected Trump’s winning the presidency would mean Deripaska would want to use Manafort to advance Deripaska’s interests in the United States and elsewhere.

    6. Trump Tower meeting: (1) On receiving an email offering derogatory information on Clinton coming from a Russian government official, Donald Trump Jr. “appears to have accepted that offer;” (2) members of the Campaign discussed the Trump Tower meeting beforehand; (3) Donald Trump Jr. told the Russians during the meeting that Trump could revisit the issue of the Magnitsky Act if elected.

    7. A Trump Campaign official told the Special Counsel he “felt obliged to object” to a GOP Platform change on Ukraine because it contradicted Trump’s wishes; however, the investigation did not establish that Gordon was directed by Trump.

    8. Russian military hackers may have followed Trump’s July 27, 2016 public statement “Russia if you’re listening …” within hours by targeting Clinton’s personal office for the first time.

    9. Trump requested campaign affiliates to get Clinton’s emails, which resulted in an individual apparently acting in coordination with the Campaign claiming to have successfully contacted Russian hackers.

    10. The Trump Campaign—and Trump personally—appeared to have advanced knowledge of future WikiLeaks releases.

    11. The Trump Campaign coordinated campaign-related public communications based on future WikiLeaks releases.

    12. Michael Cohen, on behalf of the Trump Organization, brokered a secret deal for a Trump Tower Moscow project directly involving Putin’s inner circle, at least until June 2016.

    13. During the presidential transition, Jared Kushner and Eric Prince engaged in secret back channel communications with Russian agents. (1) Kushner suggested to the Russian Ambassador that they use a secure communication line from within the Russian Embassy to speak with Russian Generals; and (2) Prince and Kushner’s friend Rick Gerson conducted secret back channel meetings with a Putin agent to develop a plan for U.S.-Russian relations.

    14. During the presidential transition, in coordination with other members of the Transition Team, Michael Flynn spoke with the Russian Ambassador to prevent a tit for tat Russian response to the Obama administration’s imposition of sanctions for election interference; the Russians agreed not to retaliate saying they wanted a good relationship with the incoming administration.
     
  5. Nemesis

    Nemesis Well-Known Member

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    You're being surrounded with information gleaned from the report with direct citations to it.

    Here's more:

    1. Trump was receptive to a Campaign national security adviser’s (George Papadopoulos) pursuit of a back channel to Putin

    2. Kremlin operatives provided the Campaign a preview of the Russian plan to distribute stolen emails

    What the Mueller Report says:

    At a March 31, 2016 meeting of the campaign’s foreign policy advisory group, one of the advisers George Papadopoulos “brought up a potential meeting with Russian Officials,” and told the group that he learned from his contacts in London that Putin wanted to meet Trump. At the meeting, Trump was “interested in and receptive to” the idea of setting up a meeting with Putin.

    In late April 2016, a Russian operative did not simply reveal to Papadopoulos that they had derogatory information on Clinton in the form of thousands of emails. The Kremlin operative previewed their plan for “anonymous release” of the information to help the Trump campaign.

    Supplemental information/analysis:

    A very significant question is what reception the Russians got from the Trump Campaign after making these revelations. The Mueller Report is silent on the Campaign’s/Papadopoulos’ response to the Russians informing them of the plan to disseminate the derogatory information. There is at least no indication that the Campaign said or did anything to dissuade the Russians. Instead, following the late April 2016 meeting, the Campaign supported Papadopoulos’s efforts to organize a back channel meeting with Russian officials and Campaign officials. The meeting would be highly secret. Papadopoulos’ hand-written notes state that Trump Campaign members “would attend without the official backing of the Campaign (‘no official letter/no message from Trump’).” That meeting, however, never ultimately took place.

    Caveat:

    Loose ends: The investigation could not establish whether Papadopoulos informed the Campaign about the Russian government’s having derogatory information on Clinton in the form of emails. That’s one feature of the Report’s being constrained by the burdens of proof in a criminal context. It is highly likely that Papadopoulos did inform the Campaign. The young national security advisor appears to have continually kept Campaign officials informed of his communications with the Russians, was eager to show value in his connections to the Russians, and informed others outside of the Campaign (an Australian diplomat on May 6, 2016; Greece’s Foreign Minister in late May 2016) that the Russian government had told the Campaign about the derogatory information it had on Clinton.

    Supplemental information/analysis:

    The New York Times reported in May 2018 that John Mashburn, the campaign’s policy director, testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee that he recalled that he and other campaign officials received an email from Papadopoulos in the first half of 2016 saying the Russians had derogatory information on Clinton, but congressional investigators did not find any such message.

    For additional background: See video and transcript of Feb. 2018 interview in which Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Calif.) explained to Chris Hayes that the House Intelligence Committee’s Democratic memo, written in response to Rep. Devin Nunes’ (R-Calif.) majority memo, should be understood to mean the Russians previewed their plan to Papadopoulos. The Australian diplomat also told a reporter that Papadopoulos “mentioned the Russians might use material that they have on Hillary Clinton in the lead-up to the election, which may be damaging.”


    3. The Trump Campaign chairman and deputy chairman (Paul Manafort and Rick Gates) knowingly shared internal polling data and information on battleground states with a Russian spy; and the Campaign chairman worked with the Russian spy on a pro-Russia “peace” plan for Ukraine.

    4. Trump Campaign chairman periodically shared internal polling data with the Russian spy and with the expectation it would be shared with Putin-linked oligarch, Oleg Deripaska.

    5. Trump Campaign chairman expected Trump’s winning presidency would mean Deripaska would want to use Manafort to advance Deripaska’s interests in the United States and elsewhere.

    What the Mueller Report says:

    Trump Campaign chairman Paul Manafort and Rick Gates shared internal campaign polling data periodically with a Russian spy, Konstantin Kilimnik. “In accordance with Manafort’s instruction, [Gates] periodically sent Kilimnik polling data via WhatsApp; Gates then deleted the communications on a daily basis.” “Manafort expected Kilimnik to share that information with … Deripaska,” a Russian oligarch closely aligned with Vladimir Putin. “Manafort noted that if Trump won, Deripaska would want to use Manafort to advance whatever interests Deripaska had in the United States and elsewhere.”

    Supplemental information/analysis:

    The Report’s wording – “whatever interests Deripaska had” — is notable given a well-known interview by Deripaska in which he said, “I don’t separate myself from the state. I have no other interests.”

    What the Mueller Report says:

    Manafort began working for Deripaska in 2005. The memo between the two men described the benefits Manafort’s work in the mid-to-late 2000s would confer on “the Putin government.” The work was “to install friendly political officials in countries” in post-Soviet republics.
     
  6. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Trump "answered" with a lot of "I don't recall" after claiming he has the best memory ever. :lol:
     
  7. Nemesis

    Nemesis Well-Known Member

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    Egad!

    Trump Campaign chairman Paul Manafort and Rick Gates shared internal campaign polling data periodically with a Russian spy, Konstantin Kilimnik. “In accordance with Manafort’s instruction, [Gates] periodically sent Kilimnik polling data via WhatsApp; Gates then deleted the communications on a daily basis.” “Manafort expected Kilimnik to share that information with … Deripaska,” a Russian oligarch closely aligned with Vladimir Putin. “Manafort noted that if Trump won, Deripaska would want to use Manafort to advance whatever interests Deripaska had in the United States and elsewhere.”

    Supplemental information/analysis:

    The Report’s wording – “whatever interests Deripaska had” — is notable given a well-known interview by Deripaska in which he said, “I don’t separate myself from the state. I have no other interests.”

    What the Mueller Report says:

    Manafort began working for Deripaska in 2005. The memo between the two men described the benefits Manafort’s work in the mid-to-late 2000s would confer on “the Putin government.” The work was “to install friendly political officials in countries” in post-Soviet republics.

    Supplemental information/analysis:

    The Associated Press published a detailed investigative report based on documents the media organization obtained detailing Manafort’s arrangement with Deripaska in the mid-to-late 2000’s. The Associated Press published excerpts from the original documents that are lengthier than some of those in the Mueller Report. For example, Manafort wrote to Deripaska, “We are now of the belief that this model can greatly benefit the Putin Government if employed at the correct levels with the appropriate commitment to success.” These initiatives, Manafort also wrote, “will be offering a great service that can re-focus, both internally and externally, the policies of the Putin government.”

    What the Mueller Report says:

    At an Aug. 2, 2016 meeting, Manafort provided Kilimnik a briefing that included “the Campaign’s messaging and its internal polling data,” and the discussion of battleground states which Manafort identified as “Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Minnesota.”

    Supplemental information/analysis:

    The reference to Michigan is notable. After Manafort officially left the Campaign, he remained in communication with Trump, Bannon, Kushner, and Gates (p. 141). In the final days of the campaign, Manafort offered Trump “pointers on how to handle the Clinton email news and urging him to make a play in Michigan,” according to Politico Magazine.

    What the Mueller Report says:

    The Aug. 2, 2016 meeting also included the start of what would be a series of discussions between Manafort and Kilimnik about a so-called peace plan for Ukraine, which Manafort admitted to prosecutors was “a ‘backdoor’ means for Russia to control eastern Ukraine.”

    Supplemental information/analysis and analysis:

    A senior prosecutor in the Special Counsel’s Office told a federal judge that the Aug. 2 meeting and what happened at the meeting goes “very much to the heart of what the Special Counsel’s Office is investigating.”

    Caveats:

    First, although Kilimnik and Manafort shared the view that Trump’s support for the Ukraine “peace” plan would help it succeed, “[t]he investigation did not uncover evidence of Manafort’s passing along information about Ukrainian peace plans to the candidate or anyone else in the Campaign or the Administration.” That said, the Report then notes that the Special Counsel could not gain access to all of Manafort’s electronic communications, and that Manafort lied to the Special Counsel Office about the peace plan and his meetings with Kilimnik. Also, the Report states that Kilimnik continued “efforts to promote the peace plan to the Executive Branch (e.g., U.S. Department of State) into the summer of 2018.”

    Second, the Special Counsel’s Office “did not identify evidence of a connection between Manafort’s sharing polling data and Russia’s interference in the election, which had already been reported by U.S. media outlets at the time of the August 2 meeting.”

    Loose ends: The report states that the Special Counsel’s Office “could not reliably determine” Manafort’s purpose in sharing the internal polling data with Kilimnik (p. 30).
     
  8. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Translation: I don't know, but I'm going to link to some progressive site that tries to translate the Mueller report, and say a bunch of stuff that has nothing to do with what you asked, so that it looks like I know what I'm talking about.

    Fact: You don't.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2019
  9. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Wow.

    Such a vast right wing conspiracy.

    Makes you wonder why no one was charged with working with Russia, eh comrade.
     
  10. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Is that a direct quote?
     
  11. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    From the people telling him what to think, yes.
     
  12. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    The Mueller report: A catalog of 77 Trump team lies and falsehoods
    By Katelyn Polantz and Marshall Cohen, CNN

    Updated 3:36 PM ET, Tue April 30, 2019

    Washington (CNN)The Mueller report documents at least 77 specific instances where President Donald Trump's campaign staff, administration officials and family members, Republican backers and his associates lied or made false assertions (sometimes unintentionally) to the public, Congress, or authorities, according to a new CNN analysis. The plurality of lies came from Trump himself, and most of them took place while he was president.

    The redacted version of the 448-page report released by the Justice Department earlier this month didn't find conspiracy or coordination between the Trump campaign and the Russian government. Special counsel Robert Mueller did not decide whether Trump obstructed justice in violation of the law, though he investigated it thoroughly and found in several instances both potentially obstructive behavior and motive.

    ...

    [​IMG]

    ... https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/30/politics/mueller-report-trump-team-lies-falsehoods/index.html
     
  13. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No. Is that a direct quote by Mueller?
     
  14. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, it's from his link to the leftist translating it for him so he can come here and act like he knows what he's talking about.
     
  15. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh noes.

    They should put him in jail for that non-existent tower he colluded to build in Moscow.
     
  16. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    He has quotations marks around it and he credits that quote to Mueller. That is against the rules in this forum.
     
  17. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    You mean the one he lied about repeatedly and directed Cohen to lie about to Congress?
     
  18. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sure he lied about the building he didn't build.

    Hilarious.
     
  19. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In his defense, he's being told what to think.
     
  20. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes, he did. Repeatedly and comically.
     
  21. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Do you think many Bothans will die trying to get us the information on it's weaknesses?
     
  22. Nemesis

    Nemesis Well-Known Member

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    Oh woe!

    I am now defeated!

    *LOL*

    Try facts, logic and reason, my friend. I'm happy to address those kinds of posts.
     
  23. Nemesis

    Nemesis Well-Known Member

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    Are you the hall monitor around here?
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2019
  24. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Try answering the question.
     
  25. Nemesis

    Nemesis Well-Known Member

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    Our "presuhdint" (pretend illegal quotation marks!) lying his anus off constantly is not "hilarious"; it's the polar opposite of "hilarious".

    Did you enjoy my link?
     

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