My god is the strongest

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Interaktive, Sep 8, 2023.

  1. Dirty Rotten Imbecile

    Dirty Rotten Imbecile Well-Known Member

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    That’s not reason, that’s you applying your emotional prerequisites to something you want to be true.

    I can confidently say that there is no god. I just did it. Watch, I will do it again: there is no god.
    See how easy it is. Clearly you don’t feel confident saying it. That’s ok. That doesn’t mean everyone feels that way.
     
  2. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    One would have to know all things to say with confidence in the truth that there is no God. Since you don't know all things, then you can't say it with confidence in the truth. You may want what you say to be true. But you know that you don't know. You have no confidence that what you say is the truth. Now if you said that you don't know that there is a God, you could say that with confidence because it would be the truth. There is nothing wrong with not knowing. Reason begins with honesty.
     
  3. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    So the argument is people had to be created, i.,e., by a God, but of course God did not have to be created, otherwise known as special pleading?
     
  4. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    The pivot here is that we tend to think of ourselves as beginning at our birth into mortality. My religion teaches that we are eternal spirits who came from heaven and are journeying here on the path towards exaltation. In a discourse at a funeral, the founder of my religion taught that God the Father of this universe and of this mankind, was once a man himself like us. That is contrary to traditional Christian theology which itself is captive to the confines of biblical scripture and their own interpretations and traditions. They consider the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints(my Church) to be blasphemous to traditional Christianity. And it's founder Joseph Smith to be the tool of demons. As for me, I didn't hear of this matter until years after my conversion to the LDS Church. But upon reflection, the concept of Gods nature as taught by Joseph Smith, seems reasonable. If God is our Father, then how can we come to be like him if he was not once like us. And if we can't become like him, as Gods, then where in it is the tie that binds us to him in love and spirit. Are we merely to be trinkets and curios on a shelf, walled off. How are we Sons and Daughters of God if we don't have the capacity to be Gods as well. And if that should come to be, then we were once men. And before that, as Gods spiritual offspring, we were eternal Gods in embryo. So by his will and power we will be lifted up to be with him after the fires and trials of mortality.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2023
  5. Dirty Rotten Imbecile

    Dirty Rotten Imbecile Well-Known Member

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    IMG_5949.jpeg
     
  6. ricmortis

    ricmortis Well-Known Member

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    Helps you feel good about yourself. Self satisfaction.
     
  7. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    My God created all other Gods, so if you have a God, you should be thankful for mine :angel:
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2023
  8. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    So my understanding is the founder of your religion determined the truth of his claims from translating golden plates with magic."" "seer stones." So where are these gold plates today?
     
  9. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    According to Joseph Smith, the angel Moroni told him where to find the buried plates. Smith retrieved and translated the Book of Mormon from the plates. After translating, he gave the plates back to the Angel Moroni. So they are not in any humans possession. Smiths discourse that God was once a man came from Smith himself, not from the plates. There are two ways to learn of the LDS Church. One is from the Church. The other is from its critics.
     
  10. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    The concept however, implies two outcomes. First off, us maturing to be gods ourselves that go on to create our own universes then supports the multiverse concept. Secondly, that we can grow up to be gods, also means that we can grow up to be evil gods, with evil being relative to this universe's creator. Which in turns also makes the point that as independent gods, we will each set the criteria of good and evil in our own universes, thus supporting the concept that morality is relative and subjective.
     
  11. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    Our exaltation to godhood is dependent upon our fidelity to God, in whom is no evil. Such that if we choose otherwise, then we never reach a fulness of exaltation. These do not exist as creator Gods, but as immortal personages in realms created for them by God. Evil cannot attain to exaltation. So this undercuts your assertion that Gods in embryo can become evil Gods which you say makes goodness a subjective matter and question the excellence of our God. Besides, why would you think that God is evil when he has created everything and given you the privilege of life and the promise of eternal life. To measure God by meager scriptural keepings is shallow and flip. It would be like saying the earth is fuzzy and lumpy by its flora and stones, closing your eyes to its towering forests and magnificent canyons and rivers.
     
  12. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    By what standard? His?By default, if He is creating the criteria, then He is also imposing His subjective view of what is good and evil.

    That reads that if God doesn't like how a god in embryo doesn't meet His standards, He then aborts them.

    Again, excellence by what standard? His own would still make it a subjective value. Further, if we are in embryo, then unless He chooses to destroy us, we leave this realm to go to His and then off to start our own regardless of how we turn out. Otherwise He is guilty of filicide, or denying free will, both of which go against the claims of what He is.

    Evil is the opposite of good. Good, under the premise of a creator deity, is defined to whatever said deity claims it to be. How could it be otherwise? In a closed system with only the creator as the only possible deity, we can then leave this as an absolute. But what you describe is an open system, meaning that if I, for example, do not agree with everything my Father has done with this universe, then I can do other things with the universe that I create, making different things as good and evil instead. For example, I can make it good for anyone to be of any sexual orientation, and evil to oppress such.

    To measure God by meager scriptural keepings is shallow and flip. It would be like saying the earth is fuzzy and lumpy by its flora and stones, closing your eyes to its towering forests and magnificent canyons and rivers.[/QUOTE]

    The towering forests and magnificent canyons also make it lumpy and fuzzy on a macro scale instead of a micro scale (comparative). Not that I bother to measure God by scripture alone.
     
  13. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    Believe what you want. Don't be surprised when reality knocks.

    PS: The quote function wigged out. Sorry if part is missing.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2023
  14. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    That works both ways, you realize.

    Welcome to technology. It happens
     
  15. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    That's why I mentioned it. ;-)

    Yeah, and trying to adjust it to make it right, often makes it worse.
     
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  16. ricmortis

    ricmortis Well-Known Member

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    That tale sounds like something Scientologists spew out..
     
  17. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    HOnestly it's way better than what the scientologists make up. Even the computer simulation theory makes more sense than they do.
     
  18. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    If in your head you hear a voice saying, this is God, bringing you a revelation, how would you know you are experiencing the voice of God in your head and not some delusion or some technology projecting that voice in your head?
    How would you know a God if you met one? What is the test?

    I often say my life marks the exact center of eternity ( think on that), so what does that say about me?
     
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  19. ricmortis

    ricmortis Well-Known Member

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    Ya. I enjoy good fantasy tales. That was a good one. Hard to believe people are so gullible to believe it.
     
  20. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    The visitation of angels is mentioned throughout the Bible, even visiting Mary, Jesus, and his Apostles. And inscribed plates predating the dates in the Book of Mormon have been discovered by archaeologists. FWIW, up until those findings, it was said there were no such things and as such proof the Book of Mormon is made up. So neither Angels nor inscribed plates originated with Joseph Smith. The ploy is that the Angel took them back. So there are no means to verify the source. But even if there were, it could not verify the existence of God or Jesus Christ of whom the Book of Mormon testifies. Nor could it prove the angel Moroni.
     
  21. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    Staying in the framework for the comment, how does one know it's God vs it being Satan (or whatever name/label for an equivalent)? After all, the best deception would be to make you think they are God and that what they tell you the scriptures mean is the true meaning.
     
  22. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    You misunderstand me, I think. The LDS premise is more believable and, IMHO, more likely than the scientologist premise. I'm not claiming to agree with all the details, but the base premise works.
     
  23. ricmortis

    ricmortis Well-Known Member

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    Tales told by elders back in the day to force people to follow their lead. Basically, keep the boogeyman away by doing good. Whatever is needed to keep the masses in line, I am all for it.
     
  24. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    I ask again, what is the God test?
     
  25. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    Wise question. You actually know the true God, but have forgotten him. You know his spirit. You know his spirit just like you know the spirit of your Parents, Wife, children, siblings. friends and loved ones. But you have completely forgotten him, like having amnesia. The whole world is this way. So if it is God, you will recognize and remember his spirit in your heart, mind, and soul. If you do not recognize and remember his spirit, then it is not God. Gods spirit is divine and brings a fulness of peace and charity. If it is his will to visit you with his spirit, there will be no mistaking the one true God.
     

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