My god is the strongest

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Interaktive, Sep 8, 2023.

  1. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

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    William Paley? The guy who took a small radio station and built it into the huge radio and TV :CBS: business? What does he have to do with this?
     
  2. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    You are beginning by excluding the existence of God. As such you discount his place in the matter. God reveals himself to whom he will by the intercession of his spirit. He cannot be discovered, concocted, concluded, built, conjured, or made by any means known to man. He alone proves himself to whom he will.
     
  3. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    No I'm not. I'm starting from the position that there are two possible options: one or more deities exist, and no deities exist. This is the only reasonable starting point. If the first option is take. Then you can further work down to one or multiple (and from that latter the number of them all), and then from there the details of the deity or deities. But the initial point does not dismiss God anymore that it presumes God. It is the neutral position supposing neither. After that you use the evidence you are presented with. I have the evidence I need to hold my belief in God, and for the tenants that I adhere to. But that has nothing to do with whether or not He can be factually proven. I hold that it is His design that He cannot be factually proven.

    Let me ask you this. Do you believe in unicorns (per legend not the actual goat breed), the Shide, the Far, ghosts, or lycanthropes? If not why?
     
  4. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    I don't merely believe in God. I know that he is real and that he lives. It isn't a matter of reason by me or from any person by reading or hearing, but of revelation by Gods spirit himself. Consequently I can no more prove it than I can eat and drink to another's satisfaction. I know he is God because I recognized and remembered his spirit, but only by his intercession. This is why I say that everyone knows God but has forgotten him like a form of amnesia. This is also why I say that to say there is no God you must know all things to say there is no God in the mix, which is an impossibility to know all things. But to say that God lives you only have to know that one thing which can only come from him. You can be as dumb as a box of rocks and know nothing about organized religion and still know from God that he lives. It is his prerogative. Biblical scholars with PHD's may know all about God. But that doesn't mean they actually know God or that God lives. They only know about him by what others have said. So it is just gossip, belief and tradition. At some point, either in this life or the next, you will know that what I am saying is the straight up truth.
     
  5. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

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    There areno atheists in foxholes... or nursing homes.
     
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  6. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    sure there are
     
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  7. Dirty Rotten Imbecile

    Dirty Rotten Imbecile Well-Known Member

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    no no, William Haley, the guy who put the bop in the bop she bop she bop.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2023
  8. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    While its true that if a God exists and makes you know that, then you do know it, and you may say so. But it is also true that you may think you know a God exists, that does not. And I see no way you could know which it is. Certainty and confidence don't necessarliy correlate with truth.
     
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  9. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    Where does this myth come from and why do people repeat it, when its very easy to look up atheists who have been in actual foxholes and remained atheists, and atheists in nursing homes. It is demonstrably and easily shown to be false, yet people push this. Why?
     
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  10. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    It's not always pushed as the myth. Sometimes it's just the humor of it. And in the end some people just can't conceive that a person won't end up turning to some deity, not necessarily their own, when confronted with impending doom. And it probably doesn't help that many atheists still say things like Oh my god, and such, as part of the cultural lexicon, even if they are not religious.
     
  11. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    I recognized and remembered his spirit and divinity. One cannot recognize and remember that which one never knew unless one knew it and was awakened to a remembrance of it. It was midday, I was in my right mind, healthy, 25 years old, under no influence of drugs, and brought up non religious. I was not looking for salvation. I had no religion, knew nothing of Christianity, was not spiritual, and had no knowledge or belief about a God one way or another.

    But to be candid, several days previous I had promised Missionaries from the LDS Church, who had knocked on my door, that I would pray to God to know the truth of their Book of Mormon. So I did. But upon consideration I felt trepidation because the thought occurred to me that if there really is a God who answers my prayer, then I would be on the hook for something far beyond curiosity and the honor of a promise to some religious teenagers. I almost chickened out. But then I figured that I could either know the truth or remain in the dark. So I went forward and asked the unknown God in private. Since I hadn't read their book, my prayer to the unknown God was whether I could believe the Missionaries. I figured that this would run the gamut and settle the whole matter. Therefore I put the whole matter to the unknown God in private and forgot about it.

    When the missionaries returned on the day in question, they began their teachings using silly little flash cards. After a time, I became exceedingly bored and ready to end the visit. So I thought questioningly to the unknown God, was my prayer to you in vain? I am ready to hear out these missionaries and then send them away with my well wishes in the success of their endeavors elsewhere because I get nothing from their words. It was then that a great peace which was familiar but which I had never known in life began to fill my heart. At first I thought, oh cool, the God of the universe is giving me permission to send away the missionaries, and I can grab a smoke and a beer. But I was wrong. To make a longer story shorter, in the end I knew from the increase of his spirit, revelation, and vision, that God lives and the missionaries are his servants, and I had agreed to be baptized as baptism was appropriate in spirit and in keeping with the divine nature of Gods spirit. I was hooked and netted by God himself. And it was all right out of the blue. I testify in Jesus Christ's name that this is the truth.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2023
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  12. Josh77

    Josh77 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hmmmm, if there are I would say they are extremely rare. I've talked about this with many of my fellow infantrymen during long shifts of guard duty in Iraq, along with a **** ton of other random topics to pass the time. Many were not officially affiliated with any particular religion, but every one I talked to admitted that before a raid or rolling down a route known to have a lot of IEDs, they were asking to whoever was out there watching over them to please let them get back in one piece. That makes them at least agnostic, but not atheist. Maybe there are some that are atheist, but I've never met any.
    For the non-combat arms that never roll out of the wire, that's a different story. I can't speak for them. I'm talking about infantrymen. But like I said, I might be wrong.
     
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  13. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    they are quite common, then just do not get as scared as Christians of dying, Christians must really fear where they are going when they die
     
  14. Josh77

    Josh77 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I’m not at all Christian, and not afraid of dying, but I have faith in god, and in fact believe that we are all simply God/creation experiencing itself. But it is that faith in something higher that sustains me. It deosn’t Have to be the Christian god. It could be Valhalla. It is faith in something beyond this illusory existence that gets us through.
     
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  15. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

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    Wow... its easy to see we live in different worlds.
     
  16. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    yep, Atheist can believe in an afterlife too, don't have to believe in a God(s)
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2023
  17. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

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    You deny it without any proof... typical lib. Don't use data and facts, just deny, I've been in combat... God is was on our minds before, during and after. I watched my dad and grandparent die in a nursing home. Everyone in the homes were deeply involved with God as their meeting became imminent.
     
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  18. Josh77

    Josh77 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are right. I think my interpretation of “there are no atheists in foxholes” is that for the most part they believe in something beyond this physical existence. Something beyond death. Or at least hope there is something beyond physical death.
     
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  19. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    Here is. Monument commemorating US war veterans who were/are atheists:
    https://ffrf.org/campaigns/atheists-in-foxholes

    If you want to disrespect these fellow veterans, many who gave their lives to protect your country, just because they don't/didn't share your religious beliefs, that's on you.

    There are numerous atheists in your own military right now, and there have been atheists in it for generations, in that and other militaries around the world, including many who have been under fire on extreme danger (and killed) and in literal foxholes.

    Yes, many desperate frightened people such as those in foxholes often turn to the irrational, but not everyone does. There are exceptions. And of those who do, not all turn to Gods. Some turn to fortune tellers, faith healers, pseudoscience peddlers, lucky charms, and a wide variety of other superstitions. Anything to make themselves feel safe.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2023
  20. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    It's a reference to the extreme stress and desperation soldiers feel. Turn on any faith healer show and see sick people doing similar. Or for the secular version, look at the desperate marks falling for sham "psychics" of numerous varieties.

    Want to buy some miracle water from Russia? Peter Popoff sold it. Want to find your missing child? Sylvia Brown did that, and both got rich doing it.

    Should we blame their victims for being so easily duped? That's when people say no, and say the no atheists in foxholes thing (which again, is false). Not every cripple falls for faith healers. Not every grieving parent falls for psychics. And not every soldier falls for religion.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2023
  21. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

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    I m not disrespecting anyone. I have never said there were no atheists in the service. I never said that. Stop making things up.

    I also never said anything about my own religious views. Stop making things up.

    You are the only one being disrespectful by calling the views of others "irrational". You are the disrespectful one here. Not me.

    You go out of your way to be nasty and cynical sighting faith healers, fortune tellers, et al. You are the one being insulting and disrespectful. You hate individual freedom of religion and belittle those that don't abide with your atheist ideas. That's pretty sick.

    When you have been in combat and seen the attitudes of those facing death... get back to me. I've been there. Stick to things you actually know about... gay rights and transgender issues.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2023
  22. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

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    There are atheists and there are religious folks. Your cynical attempts to belittle folks that don't think the way you do diminishes you. We should all respect the rights of people to believe what they want without criticism. After all... what others believe or don't believe is really none of your business.
     
  23. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    Do you read your own posts?

    You said there are no atheists in foxholes or nursing homes. I noted this statement is demonstrably false and asked why so many claim it is true. You doubled down and complained that I denied without any proof, so I posted the link above. There ARE atheists in both foxholes and nursing homes.

    You are disrespecting atheist soldiers by repeatedly claiming they don't exist.
     
  24. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

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    You are the one suggesting that belief in religion is akin to fortune tellers, faith healers, pseudoscience peddlers, lucky charms, and a wide variety of other superstitions. You JUDGE everyone that believes in God.... how nasty is that.

    There are people that are openly atheists, spend there lives being atheists... but for fleeting moments while they face death in combat or in their final moments of old age... that recognize God. You haven't been there... you have no idea. Now please stop denigrating people that don't agree with you and believe as you do.
     
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  25. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    When Atheists go to battle, they grab their unbelief, and leave their boots and bullets behind?
     

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