Naval Sea Battle In Azov Sea - Russia captured 3 Ukrainian Ships

It wouldn't surprise me if Ukraine is more democratic than the US. lol

 

Come to think of it, Cerb....

 

The below list from 21st Century lists recent "key events" that they conclude are NATO sponsored provocations leading to the Kerch incident.

I haven't fact checked their list and assume it is accurate. If it is then it's hard not to agree with them on their conclusion.

But this will not stop the Russia haters on this forum from their usual hysterical shrieking, spear-shaking, pantaloon bulging, blame-storming and tinfoil hat conspiracy fulminations.

But hey ho.

https://21stcenturywire.com/2018/11...n1-ThID788WR3-yhzhb790kaxi69-s4OQQDGlxYxxG9VQ

 

Mate,
As you know, personally, I have no problem with the fact that Crimea is now part of Russia ... but if Russia thinks of declaring the "Street of Kerch" and thus access to the Sea of Azov as their own territory and all of them Things, then my understanding stops.
Let the Turks do the same with the Russians on the Bosporus ... that will be "funny"

Wrong!

#1
By order of the Politburo and under Kruschtov, the Crimea passed to the Soviet part of Ukraine in 1954 and legal and legal under the law of the USSR ... otherwise you can question any action of the soviet leadership since 1917 and I do not think you are doing this!

#2
From the beginning, I never understood why Russia didn't claim the Crimea after the end of the USSR and captured it as their territory ... but made the nonsense of a leasing contract for the naval base Sevastopol! Apart from that, the majority of Crimea is inhabited by Russians ... and so I have never objected to Crimea being Russian!

#3
But if, because of this, Russia thinks that the only access to the Sea of Azov can be made in its territory and thus end Ukraine's free access at any time, then my understanding for Russia stops!
The Ukrainian ships had every right to drive there simply through, uncontrolled, unhindered and untouched by any Russian issue ... every right!
As stated before ... let the Turks do exactly that with you Russians on the Bosporus, because they are mad and angry at you because of Syria ... that will be "funny" and you would be puking fire and bile with rage then if they enter a Russian vessel, capture it and imprison the Russian sailors, eh ?

 

In Ukraine are more as 2 political parties only as in the US ... so more parties = more democracy, eh? (Attention, Irony only)

 

Does the truth scare you?

 

I appreciate your position M. As you know we disagree in this regard (plus a couple of other issues too).

My position is this: given the US and NATO's "most obvious coup in history" in Ukraine in 2014, and the background explanation for it detailed by Stratfor's George Friedman, I wonder what other choices Russia really had?

The question I always like to pose in these situations is how the US and the Europeans / NATO would respond in similar circumstances?

Say, for example, if the Russians planned and executed a very obvious coup d'etat in say the Czech Republic and then began to send military equipment, plus billions of dollars along with military and intelligence advisers and military materiel to assist the new pro-Russian puppet regime and then guide them to agitate against other EU /NATO states?

No one on this forum needs a crystal ball to guess at the response. It would be rapid and massive full-blooded military intervention. At the very least.

Ergo; it's the usual double standards and hypocrisy at play. Imo obviously.

 

Here is some footage regarding such issues PRIOR to 911 http://911truthnews.com/cynthia-mckinney-grills-donald-rumsfeld/

 

Eleuthera, I invite you to review Dayton3's statement:

"Ah, a 9-11 truther. You're in the wrong forum. We have a special one for conspiracy mongers such as yourself. Go there. You have no credibility whatsoever here."

Where the highlighted words are clearly an insult.

And then compare them with his statement to me in his post no. 303 (HERE) in this thread where he says:

"...insulting me would tend to indicate that your position is intellectually bankrupt."

Would you agree with me that Mr Dayton3 is applying the usual double standards and hypocrisy that is so prominent among certain members of this forum?

 

As Plato or Socrates noted, when the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.

 

Yup....considering how quickly some trolls play the "nazi" card here....everytime someone remotely disagrees...then the debate is lost on them)!

 

Former Ambassador Craig Murray weighs in on this incident. I suspect he may be right on the issue given his expertise and assuming that TTG's statement in the OP which he now regards as a conspiracy theory.

http://12160.info/profiles/blogs/br...CFtzMKC3Np8tZpCeh6eDiZl9SMTuoMEmjK_5Jsuc09qz8

 

9-11 conspiracy theories have been debunked thoroughly more times than I can count. What makes you think any of them are "truth"?

 

I generally give you complete justice as to the hypocrisy and double morals of the US and the West in general SH ... I always blamed them too and so I agree with you totally at this point.

Let's take China instead of Russia and say hyphotetically that China is suddenly very friendly with Venezuela. This is not totally unrealistic, because China is known to be very thirsty for oil and is not military, but also financially / financially strong. Venezuela, on the other hand, has tons of oil but is poor and a **** hole at the moment. Matching combination ... right?
Let's assume that China would start investing massively in Venezuela, building / equipping it militarily with material and also advisors, etc., or even building up one or another Chinese military base in Venezuela?
I hardly believe that Washington would just shrug it!
Why then demand the US and our idiots in the governments of the EU then that Russia should accept everything regarding their actions in the front yard of Russia? Arrogance, hypocrisy and ignorance are the magic words here!

And as I've already said, personally, I have never had a problem with the fact that the Crimea is now Russian ... just because I think of it as just the belated correction of nonsense that happened at the end of the USSR!

Here with the incident, but I see it very critically what Russia has done and also say that this is not correct!

The Sea of Azov also has a Ukrainian coastline and is not purely Russian coastal waters! And since access here is only possible via the "Street of Kerch", which is completely under Russian control after the annexation of Crimea, in my opinion Ukraine has every right to ask anything that floats on the water at any time and without Russia to have ... and Russia has no right to control anything or even to intervene as now.

Cheers

 

Neither China nor Russia are the United States. And yeah, different standards do apply.

 

Agreed M. See my post giving former Brit Ambassador Craig Murray's view of this affair.

 

But they are also world powers, also have a powerful military and are also nuclear capable of eradicating the US as the US is able to eradicate them.

I think it's about time for the US to accept that at least these two countries have the same rights and entitlements as the US uses them in other places and situations.
Keyword: We are the USA and we are allowed to do that, you are not the US and therefore you can not ... these times, and if they ever existed, are over!

 

Actually the Chinese do not have that capability. I can point you to articles by nuclear experts who point out that the U.S. can eliminate the entire Chinese strategic nuclear arsenal without suffering damage in return.

 

Ah yes....the Anti Americans always blaming the US. Nothing new there.


Russia ignores NATO, detains 24 Ukrainian sailors for two months.....


Courts in Crimea have imposed a two-month detention on 24 Ukrainian sailors captured by Russia after three Ukrainian ships crossed into Russian territory last week.

Tass, Russia's state-owned news organization, reported Wednesday that a court in Kiev arrested nine of the sailors that were captured when Russia seized three Ukrainian ships.

On Tuesday, courts in Crimea imposed two-month detentions on the other 15 sailors who were captured.....snip~


https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...o-detains-24-ukrainian-sailors-for-two-months

 

You have to remember they think the US is Angelic like.....they still haven't figured out that humans are hypocrites and have double standards.

That somehow they are above all of that. Despite their proven history of being hypocrites and having double standards. As well as being on the wrong side of History.

 

Madelus, the issue is that the transfer of the territory of one republic to another one was not in the jurisdiction of the Presidium of the Supreme Council and violated the constitution of the USSR.
According to the Soviet Constitution (article 1, the borders of a republic within the Soviet Union could not be re-drawn without the agreement of the republic in question. So basically several people decided about a huge territory on their own. I can not question any action of Politburo, but only this one as this was the only case in Soviet history when the territory of one of the republics was changed.

 

Trump abruptly cancels planned Putin meeting

By Maegan Vazquez, CNN
Updated 11:50 AM ET, Thu November 29, 2018

Washington (CNN)US President Donald Trump on Thursday abruptly canceled his meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin, which was scheduled to occur during a G20 meeting in Buenos Aires.

"Based on the fact that the ships and sailors have not been returned to Ukraine from Russia, I have decided it would be best for all parties concerned to cancel my previously scheduled meeting [...] in Argentina with President Vladimir Putin. I look forward to a meaningful Summit again as soon as this situation is resolved!" Trump tweeted en route to the summit.

... https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/29/politics/donald-trump-cancel-vladimir-putin-meeting/index.html

 

Of course Russia didn't want Ukraine to join the EU and preferred having it join the Eurasian Union. Vladimir Putin though was willing to discuss the situation of its trade deals with the EU, but as I recall they refused.

The situation was such that the wealthy and industrial east of Ukraine had all these special trade deals with Russia, and resented having to pay taxes to support the poorer areas in the western part of the country. This is why they voted for Yanukovich rather than the Western oriented Ukrainians that the EU and US favored.

Anyway Vladimir Putin gave a plan to Poroshenko on how the country could 'federate' and stay intact the way Russia did. Each area then could form relationships and trade with whoever they wished. The poor areas of the West could have their own trade deals with the EU and better their economic situation, and the East could continue with its trade deals with Russia.

From what I found out later on, this is not what the people in the West wanted. What they wanted was the freedom to leave Ukraine and work in the EU. It only shows how deceived they were. The last thing the EU wanted was more workers from Eastern Europe. Now if I knew this, shouldn't the Ukrainians have known it?

In the meantime, the protesters at Maidan were encouraged by the Poles who felt that if Ukraine became a member of the EU, they would be compensated for the lands and property taken from them in WWII. (They always dreamt of taking back Lviv.) It's not surprising that many protesters at Maidan were Poles not Ukrainians - and if rumor is correct, it's where the militants were trained.

Poroshenko who is Washington's man, refused the plan and said: 'We do not take advice from Russia'. He said it was only a 'trick' by Russia so it could annex the Eastern areas. In order for him to remain in office while holding on to the wealthy and heavily populated East, he had to ethnically cleanse the Russians and repopulate it with nationalists from the West. This is why they kept bombing the poorer areas, and left the wealthier areas intact.

Paranoia though always works against itself, so what Poroshenko falsely believed is now becoming reality. Lugansk is now making plans on how to join with Donetsk, and then conform their own laws to that of the Russian Federation so they can unite. According to the Minsk agreement, the Donbas was to remain part of Ukraine, but it is now impossible after everything Kiev did. They will continue following it though for a while since it does insure peace.

 

I read once that China can reach every part of the US except Florida. I live in Florida.

 

Show links/sources that the protestors on Maidan were Poles?

Also the riots in Kharkiv, refugees in Poland, DPR looking to unite with RF, and "rumor" about trained militants, jenny comrade....I await?