Non-Jews should not be allowed to live in Israel - Israel's Chief Rabbi

what will they do to them if they do not leave? there was a time Germans felt the same about Jews....

.

 

I wouldn't think they will do anything on one poll saying 53% agree with this. Not now. The danger of course is that as this becomes the accepted view then they will. At the last peace talks of course the idea was that Israeli Arab Citizens apart from Jews, would become part of the Palestinian State. I remember at that time an Israeli on another site who describes himself as 'liberal' said that as far as he was concerned there would be no two state solution unless Israel's arabs were removed. Now given that the intent is not to allow the Palestinians their state I am unsure what they will do. If however the West returns to it's 1930's mentality and shenanigans, which is a distinct possibility, then I guess they could do absolutely anything they wanted.

 

Israel has to be careful if they want to keep their victim status from what happened in Germany forever, if they commit genocide against the Arabs, that woudl not do their victim status any favors

I think that alone will stop them from ever doing that kinda thing

.

 

Well for the meantime the intent is to take over area C 62% of the West Bank and have the Palestinian non citizens living forever in Bantustans with no rights. The hope obviously that any who can leave will leave and I guess the rest will be got rid of when someone has had enough and throws a firework or something. There also has been much talk by Israelis on this site of a deal with Jordan and busing them out. As for deporting Arab citizens that has further to go but I think those who hold the reigns want it and you will see it has been supported by many on this thread. Like I said timing is not right. First of all they need to get Israelis themselves in larger numbers to believe it and then if the US has Trump and he is acting without respect to rights and the EU starts electing the far right and deporting Muslims then they can and I would think will do it - just being the same as everyone else.

 

If you don't like the way Israel runs its own nation, then go there and become a citizen. Otherwise, its none of your business.

Uri Avnery is a 92 year old senile old man who since the 1970's has drifted ever farther left politically, now he is so far to the left he is considered an extremists by all. He typically describes his political opponents as "fascist" not because they are but because the word has deep emotional impact for Jews. You have fallen into his trap because you do not know what fascism is, or the politics of Israel.

His politics are that everyone should just put down the guns and stop shooting and miraculously everyone will then live side by side in peace and harmony. But first Israel has to give up its borders and let the Palestinians have their land back. He is a fool.

 

Ah so now you are hiding behind 'I don't want Political Forums who encourage Political debate!' If you do not want to debate politics, then do not come to political forums. As it is most politics affect the world in general and Israel most certainly does so if it is not someone's interest it should be.

No he is not in any way senile. He has been working for justice for a very long time and still writes at the very least one article a week. Again you show yourself to have no answers. Whatever the argument is you instead try a personal attack on the person who made it. Personal attacks are against forum rules. Your disrespect speaks only about yourself.

Now you are just making things up. Here for you is a very simply definition of fascism and remember at the moment he is only speaking of 'overtones' and is by the way in no way the only person who is seeing Israel as moving close to the edge of fascism.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=fascism&pc=cosp&ptag=C35AE89FD93123&form=CONBDF&conlogo=CT3210127

Do some research on Israel. She is well on the way.

I am going to gather from what you say above that you may have come in for criticism over fascism before. It does not stop being fascism just because it is something you support.

Grow up. He wants a two state solution. He has wanted that ever since before Israel was created. There were by the way some Jews who wanted a one state solution and for Israel to identify with the ME rather than the West. They probably come nearer what I believe would have been ethical but I respect Avnery as he has always remained committed to what he sees as justice for the Palestinians and that is that they have their right to self determination and their state - that it is a two state solution.

 

You have stated nothing of any factual content besides your paste of a very shallow definition of fascism. By making your attacks personal, I see that you are attempting to distract from the facts and your lack of understanding of Israel and fascism. Such an approach typically means you cannot resolve your bias with the facts presented, and rather than question with an open mind and seek the Truth you resort to the "progressive" (and fascist) tactic of attacking the messenger in order to preserve your bias.

 

Ok that is what you have done since you started replying to me. Look at your first line in your previous post telling me I have no right to even talk about Israel on a political forum. I can see you are a troller and baiter and nothing absolutely nothing you say or are capable of saying is anything other than personal attack. You clearly have absolutely no knowledge of the situation. I was considering warning you you were on ignore last time.

If you do not want to debate, do not come on Political forums.

 

I think it's Israel's choice. But if they don't want non-Jewish things... well U.S. aid is not Jewish. And the U.S. has other partnership possibilities in the middle east now.




​

 

Israel under the Likud Party has done a 180 degree turn from the founders' vision. The Balfour Declaration envisioned a secular state as homeland for the Jewish people, one in which people of all religions would enjoy equal civil status before the government. Thirty years later, the UN confirmed the independence of the state of Israel which, under Ben Gurion and his immediate successors, the Jewish majority created a secular democracy with equal rights for all.

It was not until a generation later that the increasingly powerful haredim Orthodox put forth their idea of a "Jewish homeland" as a state with an established religion. The Chief Rabbi became an important part of government with control over an increasing number of issues in daily life.

As the Likud Party came into power and moved steadily rightward after 1967, it became obvious that, given the Arab birthrate and the large number of Arabs in Judea and Samaria (the "occupied territories") a modern democracy would not be possible if Israel were to be not only a Jewish homeland but a Jewish state as the Jewish vote started moving rapidly in the direction of minority status.

Faced with this dilemma, Likud chose the path of its ancestor party,the Revisionist Zionist Party, led for many years by Bibi Netanyahu's father. The party's goal is the expansion of Israel to the territory of the Kingdom of David (i.e. all the West Bank) and second class citizenship for non-Jews. Ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians became an necessary part of this goal.

The problem is that the USA, without which Israel cannot survive, remains formally committed to the two-state solution and the establishment of a Palestinian country based on the original UN plan. Neither the US nor Israel can formally change those commitments so a good deal of hypocritical talk has been necessary. The rest of the world, however, has tired of the "settlements" and "peace plan" programs which neither the US or Israel has taken seriously for 40 years. A showdown in coming.

 

It's very hard for me to answer your posts, because your view on Israel and the conflict is based on completely different premises.

Using the human rights rhetoric when discussing the Israel-Palestine conflict is a logical fallacy in my book. The conflict is not - never was - about human rights. It's about nationalism, religion, survival, expansionist tendencies, holy war. Issues common to all throughout human history, everywhere on this planet. Human rights are a victim of the conflict - of every conflict - not the cause, not the goal, not the premise. Going to war for human rights would be a very hypocritical thing to do, since acts of war deny the other side the most basic of all human rights - the right to live. We go to war for our - real or perceived - rights, not for some universal absolute rights. This is why that pregnant young woman and her brother died, and if you can't understand that you probably don't think that everybody has the right to live. To pretend that this is a moral issue is ignoring the big pink elephant with machine guns in the room.

Would you let a member of a minority group kill you to prove that you're not racist?

Lame that "a 5 month pregnant woman and her baby were killed". Not a baby, a fetus, one that could easily have been mistaken for an explosive belt, so please don't try to score points with such cheap tears-squeezing tactics.

All those polls and surveys are just statistics. Real life is far more complex. People don't get to vote for laws and governmental decisions in public referendums. Realpolitik matters more than public opinion, it shapes public opinion (since people have the tendency to justify actions of their own side). Regarding our "extreme right Government with fascist overtones", all I can say is that you obviously understand very little - if anything - about Israeli politics. There are some extreme right politicians in the government, but overall this is not an extreme right government (sadly, the extreme right has more power than ever, that's true). We never have a left wing or a right wing government, only coalitions between very different parties.

The main problem with Israeli Arabs is not their ethnicity, nor their religion. It's the fact that they don't serve in the army. Those who serve - Jews, Druzes, Bedouins, and lately more and more christian Arabs - are demanding that Muslim Arabs share the burden.

 

I accept that

Not this though. Originally it was about a small number of Jews wanting a State. Yes Nationalism and there in it was mainly East European's coming from the way that they had their say in the Parliaments in the countries in which they lived and coming from the basis of the Nationalism which had been going on in Europe at that time. Jews who had gone to the US or in the main Britain however did not see themselves as a Nation. They saw themselves as Jews of the country they were living in. A lot of the other things you say are due to the way things have developed. I do recognise that if you are stuck in it, it is very different and very personal. I also think that it is necessary for Jews in Israel to be able to see the other side. One I think good idea which I heard some American Jews suggesting a few years ago was that Israel had got into a way of continually working from crises to crises. If perhaps she was able to start thinking of values, which would of course include human rights, then things could change. Universal values, universal human rights that would be.

One of the unfortunate things about Israel is timing. Had it happened two hundred years ago when Australia, Canada, the US and others were at it, it would just be might is right and adventurism - though obviously surrounded by Arabs on all sides, Israel would have maybe not have had much chance of survival but the actual thing of taking over another people's country does not go with Western Liberal Democracy. Israel of course on the pre 67 lines is accepted now and if it were possible for Israel to move back there, there would likely not be any problems.

We are talking here about people being without rights for almost 50 years, the longest occupation in the world and certainly from what Bennett told the Saban forum two years ago the intention is to make that for eternity. I would suggest that an occupation which has been going on for almost 50 years and which involves settling on the land of the people you are occupying, is not really an 'occupation' as recognised by International Law.

Apart from the occasional terrorism it is not Jews but the Palestinians who face loss in the way you are describing. I believe that part of why you see it in the light in which you see it is because of how you were brought up to see it. I am assuming you were born and brought up in Israel. An example of someone who was brought up under a different system and did not reach the same conclusions as you would be Jeff Harper, who was brought up in the US and originally was helping Jews in need but soon moved over to helping Palestinians particularly with home demolitions and became very critical of Israel.

I do not see you at war. I see you unable to come to a resolution and I think we can see that coming from 67, not just with religious Jews in Israel developing a somewhat manic stance but possibly more importantly with the Christian Zionists in the US developing it and becoming joined to you at the hip (until Armageddon of course)

Eventually we get to Oslo and Rabin agreeing to a two state solution. I have been told by an Israeli who is generally accurate that Rabin only agreed to this after advisors had made it clear to him that if he did not, Israel as a Jewish State could not survive and I think that is very important in this narrative.

Rabin was of course seen as a traitor by the religious nationalist and Likud who have been ruling you just about all the time since and now you are back on for Eretz Israel strongly supported by US Christian Zionists both financially and politically.

All the time the Palestinians are kept without rights and subject to increasing abuse from both settlers and the army. All the time Israel moves to the right. Where has Israel's left gone. It appears to be only in human rights groups which are funded not from Israel but from Europe I believe and they are seen as traitors. Pisa all countries which wish to be liberal democracies must have independent human rights agencies because we all need to keep a check on our elites.

and just like we were fed a load of lies as to why we were going to war against Iraq you likely are also told a load of lies. From what I have read Israel lost her left after the 2nd Intifada. Now it so happens that this happened around the time of a certain event called 9/11 and along with this the UK under Blair answering to Bush after an attack on the US apparently due to it's support to Israel not to honour Oslo, decided to stop successful conflict management work with Hamas which was being paid for by the EU and allow Israel instead to build prisons for political prisoners and to declare 'war' against in mainly civilians - though to give them credit Hamas does it's best and managed to give a little kick back last time.

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v33/n05/alastair-crooke/permanent-temporariness
Hamas has also been willing for a resolution behind 67 lines for a long time. I therefore don't really buy your need to go to war. I accept your leaders feed you that but there easily could have been/could be a different solution. Where I see the stumbling block is that Israel has not yet taken all the land she wants which is the whole of the West Bank and possibly Gaza as well. That is what I believe is the reason you believe you need to go to war.

Pisa, Jewish immigrants came in and took over another country which had itself begun to get a feeling of Nationalism and was told it was going to have it's own State. I appreciate that Jews too wanted their own state but however you look at it there were in truth people who had been living there for centuries and they had to be removed from the land for Israel to have any State. Unless we dehumanise Palestinians, unless we believe that they are in some way not proper human beings then we have to accept that they like all people would be well angry about anyone taking away their land.

Come time for Oslo and they recognised they were never going to get it back. They were beaten. They agreed to accept only 22% of historic Palestine as their State. That was where Israel could have ended what you call 'war' but unfortunately there were Israeli's, pushed on by Christian Zionists, who wanted a lot more and bit by bit they have taken over the narrative of Israel.

The truth is still the same as when Rabin was there. If you do not give the Palestinians their state, you will lose any kind of Jewish one by the resolution being a one state solution and that seems to be where we are now. I know several years ago the Palestine Israeli Journal was asked by the EU to have a conference and give them advice as to best help the two state solution. One of the things they said was that people must make it clear to Israelis that failure to allow the two State solution will result in the one state solution. Israel refused to listen. Most people find the possibility of a two state solution as perceived by Oslo to no longer be a possibility and while Israel is trying by brawn and stealth to get its feet on the ground it wants, BDS is becoming a powerful force. This is bringing the conflict more noticeable to the West when democratic rights to protest are coming under threat and criticism of Israel is being conflated with anti-Semitism.

Regarding the knife attacks, I have always said that if it is necessary to kill an assailant to save a victim that goes by International law and is the right thing to do. The first priority is always to the victim. However after that to engage in extrajudicial Executions is unlawful, I believe even by Israeli law, though someone must be turning an awful lot of blind eyes if that is so. I see it as murder. There is no difference to how I would see it in Israel or our police doing the same in the UK. We very strongly do not agree with our police killing someone if it could be avoided and we felt just the same about our army in Ireland. In the situation you are in where you already have taken the homeland of these people for your accepted country Israel proper and are now after the rest which was of course to have been the Palestinian State both by the UN partition plan and by Oslo, to act in such a way does you no favours. By International Law it is unlawful to kill someone who is no threat. That is simply fact. To Palestinians I would guess it just tells them yet again that you want them dead. Acting by the letter of the law would hold you in better stead both for the issue of International Law but also for future relations with the Palestinians which take us to another reason why there has been no resolution which is simply that Israel does not see that she has anything to gain from it. Because she is the one with the military force and the Palestinians are under occupation she has the ability to take or give life - makes no difference to her. She believes she has nothing to gain from a resolution as a resolution would mean less land not more and given that might is right and the US is not only with her but through her Christian Zionists encouraging her, Israel sees no point in doing the hard work required to bring justice to the area. She can just blame 'terrorists' and do what she wants which brings us straight back to justice and rights because that is where the stalemate is and the reason that increasing numbers of Jews outside of Israel, who do not live among the 'socialisation' of those inside, can no longer support. Many Jews say they are brought up to help the oppressed and the oppressed they see at this time are the Palestinians.

I disagree as I have written above.

That is not what the situation is about as I have said above.

any excuse. It is the disrespect for a persons life because they are not a Jew.

Opinion makers definitely shape public opinion and Israel is now 100th in the world for freedom of reporting so not too good. Luckily with the internet we all have the ability to check different sources so that is no longer an excuse.

Yes, I know that.

Well the reason they were not asked to, apart from them being under military rule, is obvious. The fact that they have not has also caused them to miss out on many opportunities - jobs etc which are only available if they have served but to ask them to kill their brethren feels and I am saying feels not is but feels like the mentality of ISIS and that conundrum was one which was created when not all Arabs were ethnically cleansed at the foundation of Israel and were instead given citizenship as Israel wished to present herself as a Democracy.

 

Here we have more articles that show jewish hatred of non-jews:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/e...e-evil-in-worksheet-produced-by-10481682.html

Orthodox Jewish school teaches 3yo children ‘non-Jews are evil’

https://www.rt.com/uk/314108-jewish-orthodox-school-whistleblower/

But yeah, I’m the bad guy for informing the forum’s readers about it.

No, I don't "hate" jews, I just post uncomfortable facts about them occasionally.

 

You do realise these Jews are anti-Zionists, don't you?

 

Its half true - like your indipendant existance in Judea, the ethnic war was declared by the Arabs and ethnic cleancing was the weapon they chose, Jews just won it.

If we did it everyday since 1948 there wouldnt be any Palestinians to talk about.

No movement I'm afraid...., check Hbendor balls , he's the one that concerns from a Pal state.

 

Israel will never turn to such a country...., religous leaders like to talk about the messiya days like its just a few days away.

 

Jews are leaving Israel in droves. Funny how Israel is reluctant to quote the exact numbers leaving, but actively advertises the numbers immigrating. Why would that be, I wonder? Nothing to do with the Zionist imperative, naturally...
http://jfjfp.com/?p=77816
http://americanfreepress.net/tens-of-thousands-of-jews-leaving-israel-for-germany/
http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.622367
http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/10/18/why-are-so-many-jews-leaving-israel/

 

They dont leave fast enough as housing prices keep increasing. but you guys need something to hang on to, sadly probebly wont be a Palestinian state so its fantasies I guess.

 

They are copying Nazi ideology. They can end likewise.

 

I guess "they" already started to drive non-Jews away from Israel, otherwise your post would sound stupid....

 

Since I do have some free time on my hands, let's dive into one of your "free-uncensored-truth only" esteemed source you shared,

http://americanfreepress.net/tens-of-thousands-of-jews-leaving-israel-for-germany/

- ah nothing like a good hater remark in a serious jurnalist work, we can see right from start there is no political agenda here , just the basic facts

- no......., there were a few posts from ppl that live abroad and in the following days as part of the civil protest on the high prices in Israel, there were also a few articles by ppl that left talking on the diffrences in living conditions, "thousands of ppl" did not court other thousands to leave Israel, that's Richard's wishful thinking that's all

- lol what's a "Zionist lifestyle" ? just because some crazy (*)(*)(*)(*)s decided to dedicate their lives to bash Israel - doesnt mean we chose to do the same on you, "Zionist lifestyle" lol give me a (*)(*)(*)(*)ing break and wake up from the self obseesed movie you live in.

- True but we are also the smallest country in the OECD that support som many freeloaders such as Beduween that refuse to settle down and mostly live on wellfare, Orthodox that refuse to work (only their women do), and Arabs that refuse to let their women to work, so happens these societies also make children as many as possible and education is not exactly booming there either so even when they do work its usually not with a high salary, its not the case for most Israelis and not the picture Richard is trying to make.

As for leaving because of the Right "ultranationalists" increasing power, ofc none of those that leave will be an "ultranationalist" so does their absence among those that left mean they did because politics ? could be, none but Richard knows I guess

 

I think hes pretty racist and xenophobic.

 

Negative. It's completely true. That you come up with excuses how Arabs deserved to be ethnic cleansed so the Jew could thieve all their properties, is like reading a nazi that somehow the Jews did deserve the Holocaust "because they lost" or something.

Your apartheid government is. They went on a grand tour around the world to rally as many people to vote against this. It was a great success getting 9 votes out of hundreds... lol

 

American Christians are probably Israel's biggest supporters, and here's how jews in Israel repay them:

Christians in Jerusalem want Jews to stop spitting on them

http://www.haaretz.com/christians-in-jerusalem-want-jews-to-stop-spitting-on-them-1.137099

Orthodox Jewish youths burn New Testaments in Or Yehuda

Orthodox Jews set fire to hundreds of copies of the New Testament in the latest act of violence against Christian missionaries in the Holy Land.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/orthodox-jewish-youths-burn-new-testaments-in-or-yehuda-1.246153

Nope, no hate here.

 

I want Neo-Nazis to stop spreading lies about my people