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Obama Administration's War Against The Second Amendment...Continued...

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by onalandline, Mar 10, 2012.

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  1. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Many of you on this forum call me ''liberal'' but just in case you're interested, nobody is more pro Second Amendment rights than I am.

    But I still fail to see any proof that Obama is out to end those rights.
     
    Mr_Truth, Mar 31, 2012
    #101
  2. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The DOI is a foundation document stating the soul of the nation.

    The constitution defines law but does not provide any rights, only protects preexisting rights as well understood by the Founders. The first 10 amendments were immediately passed because some thought it should be absolutely clear what some of the preexisting rights were such as the right to free speech.

    Blackstone was well understood by the Founders and used often as reference:

    Some natural rights not specifically mentioned in the Constitution:

    Self Government
    Personal Choices
    Choosing a Job
    Choosing a Mate

    The DOI stated only the obvious, the three great natural rights.
     
    Hoosier8, Mar 31, 2012
    #102
  3. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    OK, for argument's sake, nothing has really been done yet. However, Obama's past voting record on gun-related issues, and much of his Administration are not that fond of individuals having guns. I'm just speculating based on that, and taking a proactive, rather than reactive stance.
     
    onalandline, Mar 31, 2012
    #103
  4. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    Our Second Amendment merely exempts a well Regulated militia of the People who keep and bear Arms, from State gun control (laws).

    What you are referring to is an inalienable or indefeasible right to controversial forms of private property. Those rights are usually secured by State Constitutions; and, there is even federal case law that supports that concept and legal doctrine in the US.
     
    danielpalos, Mar 31, 2012
    #104
  5. Bondo

    Bondo Well-Known Member

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    Ayuh,.... IF that were the case,....

    Why are the "People" specificlly named as those that hold that Right,..??

    'n Why is it that the "People" are individual people, referred to in Every other amendment,..??

    Why would the word "People" have different meanings, in different amendments,..??

    It's My belief that the 2nd amendment applies to the "People",.... Not to the States....
     
    Bondo, Mar 31, 2012
    #105
  6. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No State constitution could ban guns anyway.
     
    onalandline, Mar 31, 2012
    #106
  7. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    Because, any militia of the United States must be comprised of the People.
     
    danielpalos, Mar 31, 2012
    #107
  8. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    For those that don't understand, the second amendment protects both the right of a militia and the right of the people to keep and bear arms as has now been found in court. Though not worded as exactly as some want, the latter right is also enshrined in other State constitutions. Reading the writings of the Founders clearly points this out.

    Even if no militia is formed, it obviously protects the right of the citizen.
     
    Hoosier8, Mar 31, 2012
    #108
  9. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    From my perspective, the Second Amendment merely exempts a well regulated militia from State gun control (laws). What you are describing is an inalienable or indefeasible right to forms of private property. They are not the same thing.

    Why would our Founding Fathers word the Second Amendment in so awkward a manner, if it were to allow any citizens of the several States, an equivalent to an exemption from State gun control (laws) which only a well regulated militia may require, if going from State to State to enforce the laws of the Union?
     
    danielpalos, Mar 31, 2012
    #109
  10. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A right to private property still exists.
     
    Hoosier8, Mar 31, 2012
    #110
  11. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    Rights to private property are usually secured by State Constitutions.

    Can you explain why a citizen of any State of our Union should be exempted from State gun control (laws) of the same State of which they are citizens, if they are not in a well regulated militia?

    If not, then the Second Amendment cannot be as you describe.
     
    danielpalos, Mar 31, 2012
    #111
  12. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Unfortunately for you it has already been decided otherwise and incorporated.
     
    Hoosier8, Mar 31, 2012
    #112
  13. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    How consistent is it?
     
    danielpalos, Mar 31, 2012
    #113
  14. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    How long before gun lovers start clamoring for the several States to abolish any State gun control (laws) they may have, simply because of an "incorporated" Second Amendment?
     
    danielpalos, Mar 31, 2012
    #114
  15. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Love the hysteria.
     
    Hoosier8, Mar 31, 2012
    #115
  16. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    In others words, you are admitting you have no actual proof.

    Thank you. Precisely what I was looking for.
     
    Mr_Truth, Mar 31, 2012
    #116
  17. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    What hysteria; that is one implication of incorporating the Second Amendment, in that more nationalized and more socialized manner. Are gun lovers trying hasten a one world, unitary form of government?
     
    danielpalos, Mar 31, 2012
    #117
  18. LoneStrSt8

    LoneStrSt8 New Member Past Donor

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    Are you done jumping to conclusions?
     
    LoneStrSt8, Mar 31, 2012
    #118
  19. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Strawman fallacy much?
     
    Hoosier8, Mar 31, 2012
    #119
  20. drj90210

    drj90210 Active Member

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    This was already explained to you. The Second Amendment states that "The right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." It does not state, "The right of a well regulated militia's right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." The mentioning of a "well-regulated militia (being necessary for the security of a free State), is merely to provide a justification for why people should have the right to keep and bear arms.

    It would be if there was an amendment of the Constitution stating, "A educated electorate, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to read shall not be infringed." If the above amendment existed, would you argue that one must be a registered voter in order to enjoy the freedom to read?
     
    drj90210, Apr 1, 2012
    #120
  21. Bondo

    Bondo Well-Known Member

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    Nope,... It's a Right of the People....

    It's Not a State's Right....

    You oughta do something 'bout yer readin' comprehension...
    The word "People" in the Bill of Rights, refers to Citizens, Not States....
     
    Bondo, Apr 1, 2012
    #121
  22. Bondo

    Bondo Well-Known Member

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    Ayuh,... Unfortunately, yer just plain ole Wrong....
     
    Bondo, Apr 1, 2012
    #122
  23. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The history of the Second Amendment is important along with the writings at the time which gives a clear picture what was meant.

    Early proposals for the Second Amendment:

     
    Hoosier8, Apr 1, 2012
    #123
  24. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    I thought you believed in the Second Amendment; was it only propaganda and rhetoric to achieve your limited objective.
     
    danielpalos, Apr 1, 2012
    #124
  25. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    Why incorporate the Second Amendment with that latitude of construction regarding what is Necessary to the security of a free State and not a free People.
     
    danielpalos, Apr 1, 2012
    #125
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