Part 24 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

Scripture doesn't give us the exact amount just that there were about 600,000 men plus all the women and children that Moses led out of Egypt during the Exodus.

 

Do you have doubts?

Read the story of Exodus and you'll see how they survived, I mean they had God on their side..oh but wait, you don't believe in God.

One correction, Scripture doesn't tell us exactly how many people left Egypt and so I wouldn't throw loose figures around.

 

Well we don't know exactly how many people Moses led out of Egypt and they crossed over the Red Sea...not the Reed Sea.

Mitt Ryan

 

Do we have an exact date as to when the dinosaurs disappeared and went exticnt in our history books concerning the dinosaurs? What we have are theories, speculation, guesswork.

Do we have an exact date as to when humans beings came into existence in those evolutionary books? What we have are theories, speculation, guesswork.

It's the same thing with the Bible, Scripture doesn't give us an exact date as to when the Great Flood of Noah occurred but regardless of that, scholars and historians have determined an approximate date for the Great Flood.

ACCORDING TO ANCIENT JEWISH HISTORIAN JOSEPHUS, along with Irish archbishop and chronologist James Ussher, Bible historians and most conservative Christian scholars, the Flood of Noah's time occurred between 2500 BC and 2300 BC — probably close to 2348 BC.

 

After 1+ yrs, perhaps a dozen times asked, you give us a date when you think the world wide, mountain top flood occurred.
Now we can say you are a young earth believer. And have no credibility. Because now it means you think the dinosaurs existed 6000 yrs ago or less.

No, I don't have exact dates of dinosaurs. They were around before man and history was recorded.

 

Your assumption that God wrote the book of Exodus is flawed.

 

That you ignore the various edits and changes to the Bible is your denial. The fact that these changes exist (interpolation, omission, additions and incorrect translation) does not necessarily discredit the Bible as a whole. It does however discredit your claim that the entire Bible is the inerrant word of God.

If this is the case then why are there so many errors, contradictions, interpolation, omission and different versions of the Bible stories. Does God make mistakes ?

2 Peter was not written by Peter the disciple.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/2peter.html

2 Peter was written long after Peter's (the disciple) death 100-160 AD

Correct. He also wanted to unify the empire under one monotheistic religion and put himself at the head of it. Pontifex Maximus. Bishop of Bishops. Gods voice and messenger on earth.

This documentary will put to rest many of the Christian myths surrounding Constantine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_kfP96O4N0#t=1922

Constantine had one very important inclusion that he insisted upon at Nicea. He insisted (to the point where Eusebius was exiled for refusal to sign) on the word homoousios. "One Substance"

This turned Jesus into God (The Father- God of Abraham) officially for the first time in the history of Christianity. Prior to this Jesus was though to be subordinate to the father and the nature of this divinity was the subject of heated debates within the Church.

Almost none of the early Church Fathers thought Jesus was God (The Father). No one until Tertullian came up with the modern trinity concept and this was branded heretical by the Church.

After Constantine the new Universal Church became obsessed with power almost immediately and would not do anything do disrupt this power. They quickly saw how great Constantine's idea was and quickly started destroying the past to wipe out as much as they could that would show up the flaws in Church doctrine.

Only books that adhered to Church doctrine were accepted as cannon. At that time there were hundreds of "Gospels" and various other Christian writings. Fraud was accepted so long as it furthering the new Church. They kept the writings that adhered to doctrine and burned the rest.

They kept the people that adhered to their doctrine as well and killed those that did not. Apostates were considered even worse than Pagans. Questioning Church Dogma was severely punished.

The early Church ruled by fear. The destroyed the centuries old schools of philosophy as this taught people to think critically and question and the Church would have none of that.

Thus ensued more than 1000 years of mental depravity, degradation, horror and human atrocity.

 

How many men did Zerah the Cu(*)(*)(*)(*)e have in his army?

 

It is a known fact that there existed other religions before the Old Testament or before God revealed Himself to Moses and to many later prophets teaching them the true One God is all about. Hinduism is believe to be the oldest known religion the Sumerian religion just like all other ancient religions all have one thing in common they have many gods and goddesses later all those religions will be refer as paganism. God will finally reveal Himself to Noah and that is where it all started after centuries of ignoring the corruption that many of God's angels have been doing to the human world God finally decided to intervene in order to stop those bad angels from totally corrupting and destroying the world.

God will chose the Middle East and the Hebrews as the starting point to educate the world about the One God.
Abraham did not adopt any of the Sumerian gods it was the One True God who adopted Abraham.
On Genesis when God states that man will be created in "our" image" like "us" he was referring to Himself and to his angels the angels are not Gods. Later some of the angels which are consider sons of God would start to act like gods and corrupt the earth by having sex with humankind this story is very similar to Greek, Norse and Roman mythologies. Those gods are actually the fallen angels.

 

Sorry but you're wrong. There was no mistranslation when the Bible describes the Israelites crossing the Red Sea.

Here let me give you a very thorough in-depth explanation regarding the Israelites crossing of the Red Sea from my favorite Christian web-site. Perhaps this might help you to realize that your assumption that there was a mistranslation is totally incorrect.

The Hebrew word translated “red” in some 23 Old Testament verses dealing with the Exodus is the Hebrew word suph whose root is thought to be of Egyptian origin and meant a reed, especially the papyrus. So, while it is true that the Hebrew words yam suph can be translated “Sea of Reeds” or “Reed Sea,” the question that must be asked is, which is the best translation of the words to correctly convey the meaning of the Hebrew passages? Also, we must take into consideration whether these passages, most commonly translated “Red Sea,” are in fact referring to what today is known as the Red Sea or are they, as some liberal scholars assert, really referring to a marshy area by the Rea Sea or possibly some smaller, shallower lake nearby? This is crucial because, if it was not the Red Sea, then the Israelites could have crossed without God’s miraculous intervention of parting the sea and stopping the heavier Egyptian chariots. This is really the crux of the debate: did God miraculously intervene, as the Bible says He did, or was the crossing by the Israelites simply a natural event?

When we look at the many different passages in the Scripture where the term yam suph or “Red Sea” is used, it becomes very clear that it is correctly translated as “Red Sea” and is indeed referring to the large body of water commonly called the Red Sea or Gulf of Suez. The only way that one could look at these verses and believe they are speaking of some shallow lake or marshy area is if one has a preconceived bias towards that translation, ignoring not only the historical evidence but, more importantly, the scriptural context. The Scriptures give us a clear understanding that the body of water the Israelites crossed was a large and deep body of water, and the only one in that area fitting that description is the Red Sea.

One evidence that “Red Sea” is the correct translation and the correct body of water is found in the Greek Septuagint from 200 B.C. This is the earliest translation of the Hebrew Bible known, and the words yam suph are consistently translated with the Greek words eruthros thalassa or “Red Sea” (see Acts 7:36; Hebrews 11:29). Therefore, the historical evidence is that these words in the Bible do refer to the actual Red Sea and not some lesser body of water. Further evidence comes from the context of the passages themselves. First, the sea had to be deep enough to drown the Egyptian army and destroy their chariots. Those liberal scholars who want to say this is referring to some shallow, marshy area have to throw out the context of the passages or believe that a whole Egyptian army can be drowned in a couple of feet of water. Also, in 1 Kings 9:26 we see King Solomon building a fleet of ships on the shore of the Rea Sea in the land of Edom—hardly practical if the body of water known as the Red Sea is merely a marshy area or small shallow lake. Clearly, the body of water yam suph refers to can be none other than the Red Sea.

The context of the passages and the way the words yam suph have been translated throughout history make it clear that the Israelites did indeed cross the Red Sea, a 1,350-mile-long body of water extending from the Indian Ocean. In some places, the Red Sea is more than 7,200 feet deep and more than 100 miles wide. While the Israelites would have crossed the Red Sea in what is now known as the Gulf of Suez, this is the large body of water God supernaturally parted, and He used it to destroy the Egyptian army and allow the Israelites to pass safely through, just as the Scriptures describe.

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/red-reed-sea.html#ixzz3F3cA56pA

Mitt Ryan

 

God (El) was not referring to angels but other Gods. Angels cant mate with humans Those other Gods could though and the offspring were the Hero's of old- men of renown. The half man half God folks like those in the Greek myths.

When angels were being referred to they used other terms ... not "Sons of God" ! Like the Son's of God in Job which included our good friend Satan.
Angels did not have powers like Satan.

Hinduism may be the oldest religion still in existence but it does not predate the Sumerian Pantheon. In any case this has little to do with our story.

Noah's Ark ... according to the Bible landed around 2000-2200 BC. The Sumerian religion predates this by centuries if not millennia. Same with the Egyptian Religion.

This is one of the problems with the Bible flood tale. We have continuous civilizations all over the Globe through the period of the supposed flood.

One of the strange thing about Noah is that the people around him, the folks he supposedly fathered, worshiped the Sumerian God El. This makes El the God of Noah !

Terah - Abrams dad worshiped El. Noah and all Terah's lineage to Noah including Seth were still alive during Terah's life. Terah's Great Great grandfather was Peleg. For sure Terah knew Peleg and at minimum had heard the stories of Peleg and knew his lineage all the way to Seth and Noah.

Peleg's great great grandfather was Seth himself ! How is it then, given all these people were still alive that these people, and all the people around Terah who are also related to Seth, all knowing that Seth is their common Grandfather and many would have actually met Seth and probably Noah, not be worshiping Noah's and presumably Seth's God.

Everyone would know the story of these people who were their very close ancestors ... ancestors who were still living !!!

We have creation stories from this period. Stories from the people when Terah was still alive and centuries prior. These folks have a flood story in their mythology, but there is no Noah and no Seth. The story is similar to the Genesis flood story but has some stark differences especially in relation to the activities of the Gods. You should read these stories sometime. Epic of Gilgamesh (Oldest Poem in existence) and the Atrahasis texts are a good read. In these texts you will find the origin of the stories from the Genesis. The stories that were handed down from Terah to Abraham.

You will learn about Enlil .. Creator God and Father and the various other Gods that make up the Pantheon. This is the God of Noah, the Creator God of Genesis ... and the Chief God of the Israelite Pantheon. El Shaddai was the name of the God that revealed himself to Noah.

This is a fitting name because Abraham had moved to Canaan and Shaddai was the name of a Canaanite God.

 

Of course it's a myth in the view/perspective of a non-believer but to us believers the stories were true life events and furthermore there are no mistranslations in the Bible because the Bible is the Word of God.

Not true, Moses and his family were Jews.

Yes that's right, the Bible tells us God gave them manna to eat but the Bible doesn’t explain why they did not or could not eat the animals from their flocks.

But the thing with the Israelites it wasn't meat they lacked it was faith that they lacked. They kept complaining to Moses, those fools even wanted to go back to Egypt where their people were slaves for 400 years.

God supplied them with water all the time they were in the desert.

That's right they should have made the trip in 10 days but because of their rebellion and disobedience, God made them wander in the desert for 40 years.

The Bible doesn't tell us exactly how many Israelites there were but one can speculate all day why the Egyptians didn't record this exodus story, maybe they were too embarrassed or something. But at least we have the Bible as our record of this Exodus story.

The story of the Exodus was a true historical event of the Israelites. Such a fascinating interesting story no doubt.

 

Well then using your criteria the odyssey proves the existence of Zeus and the other Greek gods.

 

The old "The Bible proves the Bible is true" Trick, Chief.

 

Except YOU, of course, Mitt....because you know all the answers, right?

- - - Updated - - -

"Weirdly".....I don't think MittRyan is going to answer my question about what Christianity teaches about people who LIE or who are HYPOCRITES.....or are unrepentant about it?

 

So your doing the christian impression again, by claiming God can't get his creation right. You claim the angels are corrupting the world, God kills everything in the world to rid it, but leaves 8. And now the world is corrupt again. Why do you paint God as such an incompetent? Oh, you speak against God.

 

He thinks God wrote the bible in english. Or every single ancient hebrew word has an exact english translation.

No he can't answer that question. It would be very incriminating.

 

This is about a discussion brought forward by Giftedone that Christianity was actually originated from Sumerian religion and that those angels are Gods not angels best you address your concern to Giftedone.
In God We Trust.

 

1. I've heard this argument before....they don't say it directly but the implication is clear.

They believe that not just the Apostles or the Hebrew Chroniclers were 'divinely inspired'......they believe the English translators 1600 years later were 'divinely inspired' as well. IOW, the King James is the "full, complete, and only accurate" translation of the Bible. Everything else is "misinterpreted" or "false".

It's like the old joke where the Protestant old lady says to the Catholic "Why do you folks speak in Latin.....why don't you speak English like Jesus did???"


2. No....MR knows what I mean. He can't start talking about what Christianity teaches about liars...and hypocrites......because it will hit too close to home with his buddy...and himself.

Thus, quite obviously....showing both of them as liars and hypocrites.

 

That is a very interesting and different take of Biblical history which would point to that fact that Noah chose the One true God not the many gods of the Sumerians or any of the other existing gods of different religions and how did he knew which one is the True God? God revealed Himself to him and from that day on Noah would separate himself from Sumerian religion.

 

Then why did you bring up all the bologna about god being a failure? To prove your point?

 

Mitt has admitted he uses an out of print bible. When asked why it is out of print? It had errors. To funny.

 

That is why J. Smith got everything wrong.
English translators were able to translate ancient texts because they have excellent education through constant church support in research and education the Bible is now reachable and readable around the world by people of all nationalities.

I laugh with you.

So far all the lies, hypocritical claims, misconception, misinformation and distortion about the Bible has failed because we Christians have with great success in sharing the true story and historicity of the Bible.

 

Quote Originally Posted by WanRen View Post
This is about a discussion brought forward by Giftedone that Christianity was actually originated from Sumerian religion and that those angels are Gods not angels best you address your concern to Giftedone.
In God We Trust.

Was God a failure? I don't think so maybe to you not to me God is not a failure.

 

It is not a "different take" on Biblical history at all We know more about the History and beliefs of the Sumerians than we did 100 years ago but the Biblical history is the same.

The Bible states where Abram was born "Ur" The majority of Biblical Scholars now accept that "EL" was the chief God of the Israelite Pantheon.

El is depicted in Psalm 82 a head of the Pantheon http://www.jhsonline.org/Articles/article_144.pdf and El is mentioned as dividing the nations and giving a portion to YHWH in Deuteronomy 32:8 http://www.thedivinecouncil.com/DT32BibSac.pdf

Obviously, from my previous post the folks living in "Ur" and surrounding cities of Sumer are all direct descendants of Shem. All these people know that Shem and Noah are still alive. They all know their lineage back to Shem and the story of Noah and the Ark. They are all going to be worshiping the God(s) of Shem and Noah.

The Gods these people were worshiping had El as the chief God of the Pantheon...The Father, creator God, God who caused the flood (according to Sumerian lore) the God who created man out of earth (according to Sumerian lore - along with other Gods ... just like in Genesis) and so on.

Noah's God then had to have been "El" if one is take the Bible at all seriously and make any sense out of history.

This does not mean that a flood that covered the whole earth really happened (and we know it didn't I the Biblical period suggested). What it does mean is that the story of Genesis is an adopted version of the Sumerian creation tale.

There were floods ... and often, sometimes big ones. They just did not cover the whole earth. The Sumerian mythology says it does but the Sumerians thought creation was way way back in the past. They have king lists going back over hundreds of thousands of years. Some of these kings were said to have reigned for as long a 43,000 years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumerian_King_List

You will see that originally the kingship was thought to have descended from heaven.

The other interesting thing about the king list is that is divided from a time before, and a time after a great flood. The length of the lives of the kings after the flood are roughly the same as that given in the Genesis.