Part 39 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Mitt Ryan, Oct 27, 2021.

  1. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Here let me present a video from my favorite Christian Ministry, they answer the question: What does the Bible teach about the Trinity? Perhaps their thorough in depth explanation of the Trinity will help clear your misunderstandings. Passages from Scripture will be introduced in this video so take note of them so you can read them later then perhaps you might finally gain some understanding of the Trinity.



    Ok thanks Gift & Kode for your posts.
     
  2. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    Yes. We had several back and forths.
     
  3. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    But you answered nothing! All you did was to post platitudes that basically say Jesus is good and "I believe God". You never understood that "carnal mind" is about how you understand it. "The natural man receiveth not the things of the spirit of God, neither can he know them for they are spiritually discerned."

    Carnal mind does not spiritually discern. It takes what it reads at face value, understands it literally, and thereby fails to grasp any spiritual meaning to it. So when you say nothing Jesus said is carnal mind (or however you worded it) you are showing that you have no idea what "carnal mind" means or who the "natural man" is in the bible.

    You can't see it. You don't get it. It's a shame you believe you are "saved" just because you take the bible literally even though it says the "letter" kills.
    But you don't understand "letter", do you. It means LITERALLY and taking it all as "fact".
     
  4. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    You will only discover the meaning of "Trinity" by experiencing it. And you're not going to do that so forget it.
     
  5. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Aren't you all basically the same as the early churches who could not agree what 'the Trinity' was until one of the Councils in the 4th century actual gave us todays 'official' doctrine. The idea of a trinity goes back to Zoroastrianisn which influenced the Jews while in Babylon. However the Jewish Shema “Hear O Israel, The Lord our G-d, the Lord is One.” held firm until the supposed teachings of Jesus are said to lead to the Christian teaching. I don't believe a Jewish teacher would ever have said 'I and my father are one'. It was blasphemy and would have earned him a stoning or led to being shunned by even his disciples.
    But then I'm an atheist.
     
  6. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Come now Mitt -- posting a video created by the hands of Men ... about a man made Trinity Dogma .. does not substitute for the word of Lord Jesus. Do you not believe in Ha Satan .. tester of souls Mitt ? The minions of the Devil are the hands of men .. and from the hand of men came Trinity Doctrine .. and you want to substitute "The Word" of our Lord Jesus .. with the hands of Men.

    Hearken not to the hands of men ..and not to the Law of the Pharisee's for your Salvation Mitt .. but to the word of Lord Jesus who is the way - the Truth - and the Light .. and the Logos.

    "Passages from Scripture" ?? ---- We want Passages from The Logos MItt not from the hand of the minions of Lucifer .. plumbing the depths of Pious Fraud and Pseudepigrapha --- Do you not believe in Ha Satan Mitt --- Tell us of the Devils greatest Trick ?

    We are told on the first page of the Story of our Lord .. the first page Mitt -- there for all to see .. a Man of 30 --- adopted by a God. This man called "The anointed one of God" ---- Do you know scripture Mitt ? David an anointed one of God -- The great King Cyrus the anointed one of God....

    and now we have the Third man -- Jesus the anointed one of God ... Notice that the one's anointed by God .. are not God Mitt. Do you understand the first page of the Gospel of Mark Brother Mitt .. Jesus is not the God who anoints him the Son of Man .. Jesus is not the God who sends his Son Ha Satan .. tester of souls and Chief God over the earth to Test Jesus.

    Listen carefully Mitt -- The Father of Ha Satan --- does not need to go through ritual testing by one of his Son's to prove his worth .. does not need his Soul tested by the Tester of Souls .. What blasphemy to put God Supreme under the heel of Ha Satan .. this Trinity dogma from the hands of men .. dogma from the Minions ..

    For as we read in Scripture --Brother James 2

    Hearken to "The Word" of Jesus .. and not to the hands of men brother Mitt -- Brother James .. directing you to these words .. the words of Jesus as opposed to the handiwork of Idol Martin ..

    Matt 7
    James tells us about the same foolish man that Jesus is speaking of--- those who put their faith in the wolves and the bad fruit .. rather than build one's foundation on the solid Rock of the word of the Lord.

    Let us Pray - Hear me O Father .. help these wretched souls to put faith not in the hand of man .. and that old trickster Ha Satan .. and hearken to the word of your Son Jesus our Lord .. whom you sent for one purpose .. to give humanity your Word .. and Holy Command .. The word by which salvation is at hand ..as opposed to the word of man .. which leads where Brother Mitt ?
     
  7. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    No above you are actually the LOST one. The Word of God tells us only through Lord Jesus can one be saved. Everyone is a sinner and so you have a sin debt to pay but because Lord Jesus paid that sin debt by shedding His innocent blood on the cross that sin debt is paid if you accept what Lord Jesus had done for you. And so if you don't accept His payment, you don't believe in Him you will have to pay that sin debt yourself. So it doesn't matter if you think you're an ok person, done many good things in your life, you're still a sinner and have a sin debt to pay.

    We Read in Scripture:

    6 Jesus told him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me." John 14:6 NLT

    Ok thanks above for your post.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2024
  8. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    It would help if you read Scripture more closely, more intently especially the Gospels of the New Testament for if you did that then you would realize how wrong you have been. Jesus is the Christ and so saying the Trinity consists of the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ), the Holy Spirit is correct.

    Furthermore, the Trinity is saying the Father is God, the Son Jesus Christ is God and the Holy Spirit is God and the Father is not the Son Jesus Christ nor is He the Holy Spirit, the Son Jesus Christ is not the Father nor is He the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit is not the Father nor is He the Son Jesus Christ.

    So once again I repeat the explanation of the Trinity, God is not three entities, nor three beings. God is a Trinity of Persons consisting of one substance and one essence. God is numerically one. Yet, within the single divine essence are three individual subsistence that we call Persons, the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ), the Holy Spirit.

    Now lastly, to confirm the Son is Jesus Christ, I present you with some Scripture that evidently you're not aware of. Basically it tells us that Jesus is the "Messiah" (a Hebrew term) and the Christ (a Greek term) both meaning "anointed one".

    Lord Jesus was the "anointed one" sent into the world by God the Father to save the world from its sins to all who believe.

    We Read in Scripture:

    40 Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother, was one of these men who heard what John said and then followed Jesus. 41 Andrew went to find his brother, Simon, and told him, “We have found the Messiah” (which means “Christ”[a]). John 1:40-41 NLT

    Footnotes
    a. 1:41 Messiah (a Hebrew term) and Christ (a Greek term) both mean “anointed one.”

    Ok thanks Kode for your post.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2024
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  9. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Well Lord Jesus wasn't just a Jewish teacher for He was the incarnate God in human flesh. And many times we read in Scripture the people threatened to stone Him after He had said something provocative. As for His disciples, well yeah if He was just a Jewish teacher and nothing more they would have shunned Him but because they knew Him, they had witnessed His amazing miraculous feats (miracles), they knew He was the Son of God so they did not shun Him, they praised Him and continued to follow Him.

    Now let me present the passage where He declared, "The Father and I are one."

    We Read in Scripture:

    30 The Father and I are one.”

    31 Once again the people picked up stones to kill him. 32 Jesus said, “At my Father’s direction I have done many good works. For which one are you going to stone me?”
    33 They replied, “We’re stoning you not for any good work, but for blasphemy! You, a mere man, claim to be God.”

    34 Jesus replied, “It is written in your own Scriptures [a] that God said to certain leaders of the people, ‘I say, you are gods!’ 35 And you know that the Scriptures cannot be altered. So if those people who received God’s message were called ‘gods,’ 36 why do you call it blasphemy when I say, ‘I am the Son of God’? After all, the Father set me apart and sent me into the world. 37 Don’t believe me unless I carry out my Father’s work. 38 But if I do his work, believe in the evidence of the miraculous works I have done, even if you don’t believe me. Then you will know and understand that the Father is in me, and I am in the Father.”

    39 Once again they tried to arrest him, but he got away and left them. 40 He went beyond the Jordan River near the place where John was first baptizing and stayed there awhile. 41 And many followed him. “John didn’t perform miraculous signs,” they remarked to one another, “but everything he said about this man has come true.” 42 And many who were there believed in Jesus. John 10:30-42 NLT

    Footnotes
    a. 10:34a Greek your own law.
    b.10:34b Ps 82:6.

    Ok thanks trev for your post.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2024
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  10. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    You're asking me to read and take the bible LITERALLY as the natural man does and you do, and not as it was revealed to me. IOW you either prefer or only trust other humans to tell you what the bible means. It looked to the Spirit to reveal it AS THE BIBLE RECOMMENDS AND YOU IGNORE.

    Jesus was a man who had "realized" Christ to the extent that the Son dominated his being for the most part. And as Jesus tried to teach you, that same Christ is within you waiting for you to "Realize" it as your own being. The bible tells you this so it's interesting that humans who want very much to make theology a career and source of great income tell you a different worldly story and you believe it.

    The bible doesn't say that. Your source is MAN! You are repeating the words and worldly views of MAN! Why are you afraid to reject all that and seek the truth revealed by the Spirit Itself???

    (There's ANOTHER question for you that you probably won't answer.)
     
  11. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    Well said. Your understanding is in harmony with my personal experience, or vice versa.
     
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  12. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    The problem is that you both think you adhere to what the bible says and teaches, but since you're selective, you don't.
     
  13. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Very good question trev. We learn from reading Scripture that Enoch and Elijah are the only two people that God took to heaven without them dying.
    As to what were the specific reasons God did this the Bible doesn't specifically gives us the answer. But let me present a video from my favorite Christian Ministry, they answer the question, "Why did God take Enoch and Elijah to heaven without them dying?" from a biblical perspective.



    Ok thanks trev for your post.
     
  14. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Enoch and Elijah are the only two people God took to heaven without them dying but they won't be the only ones to experience this. When the rapture of the church happens sometime in the future there will be many more people experiencing what Enoch and Elijah experienced. Let me present a video from my favorite Christian Ministry, they answer the question, "What is the rapture of the church?"

     
  15. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    No, Gift you are so far off base that you're out! The source of the Trinity doctrine is the Holy Bible. And let's not forget the Holy Bible is the Word of God and so all Scripture is inspired by God. So the doctrine of the Trinity is not man made dogma as you falsely believe it to be but it comes from God, it's all there written in Scripture. That video I furnish gives you all the pertinent verses in Scripture that authenticates/verifies the Trinity doctrine.

    Any way the following is regarding the Holy Bible as being inspired by God.

    The Holy Bible does not give us exact details of how God spoke authoritatively through the human authors of Scripture, it does tell us that the words of Scripture originated with God and were communicated to humankind in order to produce the resultant Word of God. He did this through a process called "inspiration".

    First, God originated the message. He then communicated it to those whom He wanted it proclaimed. All of this was eventually committed to writing. However it is the writings, not the writers, which the Holy Bible puts the emphasis upon.

    Exactly how all this occurred is not stated. Scripture says that the ultimate source was God the Holy Spirit who moved the writers in such a way to say what was needed to be said.

    Although the writers were in control of their senses, God spoke His Word through them in such a way as to bring about His authoritative word. In a number of places Scripture records the Spirit of God has come upon people. This demonstrates that God's Spirit has come upon people in the past to accomplish His purpose.

    And so the Holy Bible is the very Word of God. Almighty God is the author of the Holy Bible. He chose certain individuals to write down exactly what He wanted to tell mankind/humankind.

    Scripture tells us no prophecy ever came from the prophet's own understanding or from human initiative, they were moved by the Holy Spirt and they spoke from God.

    We Read in Scripture:

    20 Above all, you must realize that no prophecy in Scripture ever came from the prophet’s own understanding, 21 or from human initiative. No, those prophets were moved by the Holy Spirit, and they spoke from God. 2 Peter 1:20-21 NLT

    16 All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right. 17 God uses it to prepare and equip his people to do every good work. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 NLT

    Ok thanks Gift for your post.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2024
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  16. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are only quoting what the Gospels writers want you to believe. Jesus was a Jewish preacher. Brought up from the age of 5 through to 13 to learn to read and write. They followed Proverbs 22;6. Thats how Jesus was so learned in the Temple. He was an excellent student. After that a student such as Jesus woukd go on to what we call 'further Education' given by a recognised teacher - later called Rabbis. You will find he was recognised as a teacher/Rabbi several times. His learning was nothing to do with Jahweh telling him. That's just christian thinking. The Nativity stories are different and contradict each other and definitely go against Roman and Jewish laws of the time.

    Please don't quote 'your favourite website'. They've already failed miserably to give me an answer why Matthew send Joseph to Egypt for about 2 years, yet Luke sends them home after about 40 days.
     
  17. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Every word out of mouth - further into the abyss .. then you turn around and cry to those standing afar "Your so far off base that you're out" -
    Brother Mitt .. The Logos is "The Word" --- Let us not confuse with the hands of Man - the hands that do the Devils work - with the Word of "The Father"
    and further .. let us not supplant the word of our lord .. with that wrought by the hand of man.

    If the above were not enough blasphemy of the Holy Spirit for one post .. you then proceed to make Jesus into a Liar - and claim this is the work of your God -- and thus begs the question brother Mitt -- who is your God --- and where is this God's word found in the Jewish Bible ? The God you mistakenly claim breathed all scripture .. a monstrous absurdity in light of the fact that you don't know the name of the Most High God in heaven .. can't distinguish the word of that god from the Chief God on Earth -- Ha Satan - Tester of Souls.

    and now - having no idea which God it is that you worship .. want to tell us that Jesus is a liar .. because you say Man made Trinity Doctrine is Gods Holy Word .. and that this God Claims Jesus is "The Father" -- this God who's name nor identity you do not know --

    Help us to sort out this confusion Brother Mitt -- What is the name or identity of this God who claims Jesus is a Liar -- this God of your man made Trinity who's word you wish to substitute with that of Lord Jesus.

    and show us which of these commands are from your god .. if any --- 1) Kill the child for the sin of the Father 2) Do not Kill the Child for the sin of the Father - Each is to be punished for their own sin.
     
  18. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Do you not think that if Jesus had done all those miracles we would have heard of it in Roman history or Jewish history. We read that people from all around came to see him, yet not one curious Roman ever mentioned it. Raising people from the dead wasn't an everyday thing that would go unnoticed by the authorities.
    The people who tried to stone Jesus were the authorities - not the people.
     
  19. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Obviously you either didn't receive the memo or perhaps you received it and rejected it like how you reject practically everything written in the Scriptures of the Holy Bible. Your rejections/denials won't last forever for there will be a day when it's no longer available.

    There is mention in Roman history as well as Jewish history of miracles performed by Lord Jesus, granted though they are not as detailed and thorough as what is presented in the Gospels of the New Testament of the Holy Bible but nevertheless they are mentioned. Phrases such as "For he was one who wrought surprising feats...", "He was [the] Christ...he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things", "did magic", are just a few examples of mentioning miracles.

    So there are mentions of the Lord Jesus' miracles from Roman/Jewish historians but because these particular people didn't witness them being they weren't His followers, it was what they heard that they reported. It wouldn't be surprising if they didn't believe what they heard because like most people...seeing is believing, especially when it involves miraculous miracles.

    But anyway below I'm going to present an article from my favorite Christian Ministry, they answer the question, "Did Jesus really exist?" It's only a partial presentation and so if anyone wants to read the entire article click on the link below. I'm also going to present the video portion of that article below.

    I know trev that you believe Jesus lived and was a Jewish teacher and nothing more but if you begin to start believing what the authors of the four Gospels wrote you will be on your way into being saved. According to your claim you were once a Christian preacher and so at one time you were a believer.

    But anyway on to the written article followed by the video.



    Ok thanks trev for your post.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2024
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  20. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have never denied the existence of Jesus - just his divinity. He was a Jewish preacher - nothing more. Quoting GotQuestions is like quoting Pilate, who in a letter to Caesar, said that when Jesus approached him in his Palace all the statues bowed to Jesus. It was simply his excuse for treating Jesus as he did.
    Historians of the time mention that the disciples of Jesus say he did miracles. None of them were there to see it. Secondhand accounts. There are second hand accounts in many books of Jesus doing many things. Even as a boy/youth killing another boy and then regreting his action, bringing him back to life. The disciples simply added the miracles to make Jesus divine.
    Seeing is not believing. Many magicians can do 'impossible' things. I've seen a Japanese 'magician' do things with a spinning signet ring in mid air, without anything near it, and guide it, still spinning, across 3 feet of empty space, while his hand - at 6-12 inches distant - guided it on to a judges upraised finger. Nothing held it in midair as it was spinning all the time. Miracle, magic? I don't know, and nor did the judges or audience, how it was done. But he was not divine, that we know.

    I simply do not have the time to waste on much of you indoctrinated beliefs. Study history against the OT. Abraham could not have existed as the Bible says. Israel were never in Egypt. Moses and the Exodus has been disproved. The Red Sea was impassable as the Bible described - even with a miracle.

    I would thank you for your post but it was a was of time just reading it.
     
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  21. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    No trev sorry but no one has proven that much of the Bible is myth handed down. You're just one among the many countless others who have made this false claim.

    Here let me present an article from my favorite Christian Ministry, they answer the question, "How do I know the Bible is not just mythology?" Very good interesting reading throughout the entire article but pay special close attention to the very last two paragraphs and dwell on it a bit to ponder its implications.

    Ok thanks trev for your post.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2024
  22. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh. for goodness sake. Much of the Bible has been proven to be myth taken from earlier myths. You reliance on GotQuestions rather than studying for yourself shows up your ignorance of the ancient world.

    The fact that the Bible has changed many lives means little. So has the Qu'ran and you ignore that. So have many other religions and you ignore those.

    Why waste your time replying regarding things you know nothing about.
     
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  23. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Oh my goodness gracious!...nothing has been proven trev, why do you keep spewing that nonsense?

    Anyone who claims they have proven this is being intellectually dishonest, I guess this means you trev.

    You can believe that your statement is true trev but let's not forget what beliefs are.

    You told us you did study outside of the Bible which influenced you to become an atheist. Didn't you have the ability to think for yourself instead of having to rely on that study you did that influenced you to become an atheist? So does this show your ignorance of the ancient world by having to rely on the study outside of the Bible?

    Truth is, trev my boy, we are all influenced and rely one way or another by the sources we get our information from. It is up to us by way of our thinking to believe or not believe that info we receive.

    Besides relying on my first source which is the Holy Bible I also happen to rely on my second source which is my favorite Christian Ministry with their articles they furnish on the numerous topics regarding Christianity they present because they keep in line with what's written in the Scriptures of the Holy Bible. So essentially they collaborate and complement the Holy Bible.

    Well of course it means little to you being the atheist that you are but it means a great deal to the little over the current 2 billion or so practicing Christians world-wide.

    So are you saying that the Qu'ran has changed many lives means little too? I'm a Christian not a Muslim that explains that.

    So are you also saying that many other religions has changed lives means little too? I'm a Christian not a follower of the many other religions that explains that.

    Do you know all there is to know? No, you don't but we keep learning as long as we continue to do research and by reading material from the sources we find reliable.

    Why do you waste your time coming to my thread with your questions and comments/opinions? Aren't you comfortable with your atheistic belief system? Why don't you spend your time questioning and commenting on other religions?

    Probably because you feel the most threatened by the Christian religion. The funny thing about you is that you once claimed you were a Christian preacher, then became an agnostic and now a full fledged atheist...wow! is all I can say...lol

    Why don't you start a thread on the religion of atheism?

    Ok thanks trev for your post.
     
  24. Nwolfe35

    Nwolfe35 Well-Known Member

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    We read in the scripture, we read in the scripture, we read in the scripture....

    Why don't you start with "Why should we care what the scripture says" before we start worrying what we read there.

    I can point to things written in the Quran but I bet you don't care.
     
  25. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Trev is correct. Do you really believe there was a talking snake? How about a tree that imparts knowledge? Where did you think the notion of "The Word" came from? Try Philo.

    "Ancient world"? The source was current discoveries in the field of neuropsychology and brain function.
     

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