Part 8 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

www.independent.co.uk/news/science/​35-billionyearold-horribl…25 minutes ago

3.5 billion-year-old ‘horribly smelly’ fossil found in Australia is 'oldest ever complete example of life on earth'

 

That is very wrong. Ape and human are not synonymous. They would not be unless all humans are apes and all apes are humans. One could say SOME apes are humans, but not that all apes are humans.

Oranges are fruits; not all fruits are oranges, but all oranges are fruits. That does not logically lead to... fruits are oranges; not all oranges are fruits, but all fruits are oranges.

 

Quote Posted by Akhlut on pg. 66 #652 of Part 3

At this point, I'm not even sure how to respond to WanRen's hideous butchering of human evolution. It's one thing to show someone who is using incorrect logic or starting from incorrect premises that they are wrong and going from there, but when both the logic and premises are incorrect, there's really nowhere to go.

However, for Dear Reader, let's take something into consideration. We know that evolution works, it's why genetic engineering can even work (why can genes be transferred from one organism to another if they didn't evolve from a common ancestor that uses the same codons for translating genetic code into proteins?), it's why diseases become drug resistant, and it's why we can breed livestock, pets, and crops for certain characteristics. It's why in Russia they've managed to develop a domesticated fox from standard ol' Vulpes vulpes. It's why any part of modern biology works as it does. It's been experimentally proven and observed to happen in animals with small generation times. It's why we've been able to find certain fossils almost exactly where we expect them (Tiktaalik, various Australapithicines, etc.).
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Let me break it to you gently...evolution is just a theory...period! All this genetic engineering is just playing God, which we shouldn't even be doing.

Someday this experimenting around is going to bite us in the ass!...if you know what I mean!

It actually already begun years ago. Look at those africanized honey bees that were accidentally released into the wild and are behaving like ferocious crazed pit bulls on pcp.

I say enough with this genetic engineering stuff....what say you?

 

Quote Posted by GraspingforPeace on pg. 66 #656 of Part 3

Nobody is saying that we evolved from gorillas or chimps, we evolved from a common ancestor.
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We evolved from a common ancestor from the gorillas and chimps is just a theory. You can't even name this ancestor much less give a physical description of how it looked what it ate etc....wait...it ate bananas and insects right?...lol

And so how are we to accept such nonsense?

You folks can't even accept the historicity of our Lord Savior Jesus Christ and you expect us to accept your guesswork?...such arrogance I tell ya!

 

It is a theory that is widely agreed and relied upon in nearly all branches of science. The Bible stories (especially in the Old Testament) are not even really a hypothesis but just a myth or fairytale.

Possible ramifications of genetic engineering have nothing at all to do with the validity of evolution.

Africanized honey bees are not the result of genetic engineering. The hype surrounding them is a bit overblown.

 

Quote Posted by Akhlut on pg. 66 #659 of Part 3

Humans and non-human apes shared a common ancestor some 13 million years ago and from that ancestor the orangutan lineage split first, then the gorilla lineage, then the chimp and human lineages separated some 5-7 million years ago.
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No kidding! You speak as though you were around some 13 million years ago to know all this...lol

Did you go back in time using a time machine?...lol

13 million years ago...yeah right!...lol

 

I understand that it goes back again to who and what is this Great Ape, What is the historical back ground why early scientist adapted the term "Great Ape" why not Great Primate, Great Human or Great what ever? What was the political, social, racial and scientifically history behind adapting the "Great Ape" term or theory?

Are there more than one Great Ape?

 

Quote Posted by GraspingforPeace on pg. 66 #660 of Part 3

Apes are not a species.
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Is that another theory?...lol

In my book apes are indeed a species.

 

Quote Posted by GraspingforPeace on pg. 66 #660 of Part 3

We are apes
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No, we are humans.

Look at yourself in the mirror and scream out... I am a human!...I am not an ape!...lol

 

??? I answered your question. Great ape distinguishes a variety of apes including chimpanzees, gorillas, orangutans and humans from lesser apes, e.g., gibbons. Primate is a larger or higher order group that includes apes. Not all apes are humans. So great primate and or great human does not work.

What is your point?

 

You see I understand all that but you have not answer the question. Who and what is this Great Ape, what is the historical back ground why early scientist adapted the term "Great Ape" why not Great Primate, Great Human or Great what ever? What was the political, social, racial and scientific or theological history behind adapting the "Great Ape" term or theory?

So now you are saying there is more than one Great Ape each animal or plant group has their own Great Ape?


Here is another description or classification notice that humans are group separate from monkeys, apes:
CLASSIFICATION
Apes are classified in the Linnean System as follows:
Kingdom Animalia (all animals)
Phylum Chordata
Subphylum Vertebrata (animals with backbones)
Class Mammalia (warm-blooded animals with fur and mammary glands)
Order Primates (which is comprised of 11 families, including lemurs, monkeys, marmosets, lesser apes, great apes, and humans)
Suborder Haplorrhini
Superfamily Homonoidea
Family Hylobatidae (meaning "tree dweller" - the lesser apes, including gibbons and siamangs)
Genus Hylobates (with 9 species of gibbons; since gibbons do not cross bodies of water, major rivers isolate each of the species.)
Species H. agilus - the agile gibbon (or dark-handed gibbon)
Species H. concolor - the crested gibbon (or the black gibbon or the white-cheeked gibbon)
Species H. hoolock - the Hoolock gibbon
Species H. klossii - Kloss' gibbon (or Mentawai gibbon)
Species H. lar - the white-handed gibbon or the common gibbon (consisting of three subspecies)
Species H. moloch - the Javan gibbon (or silvery gibbon, or white-browed gibbon)
Species H. muelleri - the Bornean gibbon
Species H. pileatus - the pileated gibbon (or capped gibbon)
Species H. syndactylus - the Siamang (the biggest gibbon, with dark fur, an inflatable throat sac, and a very loud call)
Family Hominidae (the great apes, including gorillas, chimpanzees, bonobos, and orangutans)
Genus Pongo (orangutans)
Species pygmaeus
Subspecies (perhaps a subspecies) P. p. pygmaeus (with a round face and dark red hair; found in Borneo)
Subspecies (perhaps a subspecies) P. p. abelii (with a narrow face and paler hair; found in Sumatra)
Genus Gorilla (gorillas)
Species gorilla
Subspecies G. g. gorilla - the western lowland gorilla (found in Cameroon, Central African Republic, Gabon, Congo, and Equatorial Guinea)
Subspecies G. g. graueri - the eastern lowland gorilla (found in eastern Zaire)
Subspecies G. g. beringei - the mountain gorilla (found in Zaire, Rwanda, and Uganda)
Genus Pan (chimpanzees and bonobos)
Species troglodytes - the Chimpanzee
Subspecies P. t. verus - the western subspecies (found in Côte d'Ivoire, plus some small populations in Guinea, Sierra Leone, and Liberia).
Subspecies P. t. troglodytes - the central subspecies (found mostly in Gabon, also from eastern Nigeria to the Ubanghi River and south to the Zaire River).
Subspecies P. t. schweinfurthi - the eastern subspecies studied by Jane Goodall (found from southern Lake Tanganyika in Tanzania, and from there northwards to Burundi, Rwanda, Uganda and southern Sudan).
Species paniscus - the Bonobo or pygmy chimp, from Zaire, along the Zaire river.
Genus Homo)
sapiens (humans

http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/apes/Classification.shtml

The bottom line now is that as science start to dig deeper the more they do not really know and the most interesting part is theologically it seems the deeper science goes the origin of creation is leading to a single source, for Christians it leads to God for scientist it may lead to a super particle. The parallel study and road map between Christianity and science on human evolution is moving at the same direction the only difference is that atheist scientist refuse to accept the existence of God while Christian scientist have no problem with science because science is the ultimate answer to God's amazing power.

 

They are not a species. Even if for whatever reason you don't believe humans should be classed as apes, apes are not a species. They are a group that includes several species.

 

We are both, just as chimpanzees are both chimpanzees and apes or an orange is both an orange and a fruit.

 

Quote Posted by Woody on pg. 67 #666 of Part 3 in response to my post

The whole theme of why I started this thread was to answer tough questions regarding Christianity (Post by Mitt Ryan)

Cherry picking what you chose to answer is not answering the tough questions is it? But then again, christianity being founded on deceit and forgery thats not surprising or at least it should'nt be. (Post by Woody in response to my post)
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That's just your biased opinion...what else is new with my friends on the otherside of the aisle...eh?

I have answered numerous questions and I'm still on the job.

Oh and btw fyi Christianity was not founded on deceit and forgery, that is again just your biased opinion...a biased opinion based on denial of the truth!

 

Your listing has humans in the genus homo under the hominidae (great apes) family. It has the hominidae family in a superfamily homonoidea (apes) with the lesser apes.

It should answer your strange questions.

 

Quote Posted by AlphaOmega on pg. 68 #673 of Part 3

Why should anyone be eternally punished simply for not accepting Jesus Christ?
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What do you suggest God should do for those who don't believe in Him? You have done wrong in your life, you have sinned in your life, doesn't God, since He created you, He owns you, have the right to punish you?

Jesus paid the penalty for us on the cross and so if you don't accept what He did for you, you will be punished.

Rejecting the payment our Lord Savior Jesus Christ made on the cross as payment for our sins, is like spitting in His face and rejecting Him for showing His great love for us by sacrificing His life by suffering the agonizing pain of shedding His innocent blood so that He could save us from eternal punishment, is by itself worthy of eternal punishment of separation from God.

 

Wait, what. We are God's slave property to do with as he pleases? This is why atheists consider themselves more moral than Christians...

No, it's more like "We need more evidence to believe in such a thing than a measly set of books written 2,000 years ago by superstitious people".

 

I made the stupid mistake of actually looking at a few of the posts on this topic after I said I was done with it.

For my doing so I got even more irritated.

Mitt and WanRen......all you have to do to WIN your argument is to provide ONE LOUSY LINK TO A VIABLE SOURCE THAT SAY'S HUMAN'S ARE NOT APES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But of course neither of you have done this because no such proof or site exists.

The reason for this is because.....HUMAN'S ARE APES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And in particular Human's are GREAT APES or in the Great Ape Family along with Gorillas, Chimp's Bonobos and Orangutans.

SO AT THIS POINT SINCE YOU ARE SIMPLY WASTING EVERYONE'S TIME......either prove Human's are not APES or stop posting they are.

I feel like I am talking to a bunch of 1st Grade Kids who are lying to me that they washed their hands before lunch.

Ridiculous!

AboveAlpha.....and p.s....Where the heck are you MODS when we need you?

 

Quote Posted by AlphaOmega on pg. 68 #673 of Part 3

A true loving god would never require people to worship him under penalty of eternal damnation.
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He is not requiring/demanding us to believe in Him, love Him, worship Him. Rather He has given us free will to choose to believe in Him, love Him, worship Him, or not to believe in Him, not to love Him, not to worship Him.

But at the same time we are all sinners, worthy of punishment for our sins...every single one of us believers and non-believers (excluding babies and children not of culpable/accountable age)

So the sinners who believe in Him, love Him, worship Him, who accept Jesus Christ as their Lord Savior will be forgiven for their sins and spared punishment.

Needless to say, the sinners who don't believe in Him, naturally won't love Him, won't worship Him, won't accept Jesus Christ as their Lord Savior for how could they love someone or worship someone who they don't believe even exist?

They will face punishment for their sins.

Now that is the fate that is in store for the believers and non-believers as written in the Scriptures.

 

I agree that all people do something wrong at some point in their life. The point is to try to do good and avoid doing bad in the hopes that the good outweighs the bad in the end. Saying that atheists think they are more moral was in regards to the claim that God has complete discretion to do with us as we please because "he owns us".

 

Quote Posted by Woody on pg. 68 #675 of Part 3 in response to my post

Yes, He was in fact dead but just for 3 days, then on the 3rd day He resurrected from the dead and thus began the Christian religion.

For now we have a Savior who wiped away the sins of mankind... in that whoever believes in Him shall not persish but have eternal life...amen to that brother! (Post by Mitt Ryan)

This makes me want to vomit........(Post by Woody in response to my post above)
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That's too bad for you! While you're on the verge of vomitting all over yourself, three billion Christians world-wide are rejoicing on a daily basis!

 

Quote Posted by GraspingforPeace on pg. 68 #677 of Part 3 in response to my post

Furthermore, rejecting the payment our Lord Savior Jesus Christ made on the cross as payment for our sins, is like spitting in His face and rejecting Him for showing His great love for us by sacrificing His life by suffering the agonizing pain of shedding His innocent blood so that He could save us from eternal punishment, is by itself worthy of eternal punishment in hell. (Post by Mitt Ryan)

For all I know, he never made such a payment. I wasn't there, nor were the Gospel writers (Post by GfP in response to my post above)
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Yes, that's the typical response from an atheist....denials.

Someday you're going to be out of denials, when you face the truth!

One last thing, we all know you weren't there but for you to say the Gospel writers weren't there also is really stretching it...isn't it?

 

Yes humans are group in its own together other group of primates are then group together to fall under one Great Ape. The listing is clear humans are not group chimps, gorillas etc, they are humans under their own group the question now is all the four groups of primates falls under the Great Ape so; Who and what is this Great Ape, what is the historical back ground why early scientist adapted the term "Great Ape" why not Great Primate, Great Human or Great what ever? What was the political, social, racial and scientific or theological history behind adapting the "Great Ape" term or theory?

The bottom line now is that as science start to dig deeper the more they do not really know and the most interesting part is theologically it seems the deeper science goes the origin of creation is leading to a single source for them it is the Great Ape theory, for Christian scientist it leads to God.

The parallel study and road map between Christianity and science are identical on human evolution it is moving at the same direction the only difference is that atheist scientist refuse to accept the existence of God while Christian scientist have no problem with science because at the end science ultimate answer will be to discover God's amazing power.

 

Your question has been answered. Are you just trolling now?

Great ape separates them from lesser apes. Primate is a higher order group, as your listing notes, which includes all apes, monkeys, lemurs and marmosets. Humans are a type of ape. Great human or great primate does not properly capture the level of specificity intended and so those terms would not be useful.

Da fu? What great ape theory??? What origin of creation???