Punishment law over Armenian Genocide denial in France

I just wrote the news i am not defending or attacking, however experts beleive that this decision of the court will be example for next tries by Sarkosy.

On the other hand socialist candidate also shaked his hand to Armenian voters, he also promised to bring this law to parlemantary again if he is choosen.

Where they were all these year, i really wonder.

PS: I am not a liberal, as you are not too.

 

you mast know that French right and left vote for this bill , and will do it again, in France against this bill are only the unknown Bureaucrats with commercial interests in Turkey and the shady contacts with the Turks

 

They can prepare 100 resolutions if they want.It wont change the fact that the ones who try to find a so called genocide in other nation's past with fabrications and falsifications will keep failing.Weak and obsessed slander policies are not enough to make Turkey accept such allegations.When it comes to talking about real history,genocide promoters get silent.

 

they? - the world?

 

Decisions taken in parliaments as a result of political lobbies wont settle historical matters and wont mean anything.Armenia and armenian diaspora are too scared and insecure to open archives,sit on the table and solve the problem with historians and documents.Who would care about Armenians if their genocide allegations were proven wrong? Instead of serious efforts,now armenian diaspora has their hopes from Kim Kardashian's big butt.They started promoting genocide stories in their reality show now.Such a tragical comedy

 

you are old enough to know that the all "Decisions" which have been taken in the parliaments are result of work of the political lobbies....

then dont you see that you lost this media- fight and new you just hit yourself?

 

I apologise for not reading the thread and just butting in.

I agree that the French doing this for Political reasons is no good at all. However even many Turkish Historians admit this now. It needs to come out in the open so that people may put it to rest. Turkey needs just to accept it and be honest about it. It is nothing to do with Turkey now - except still not acknowledging it and that is concerning. There is no nation alive that does not have some dirt in it's cupboards. It needs to be properly looked at and acknowledged. Not just Armenia but Turkey also needs to release all it's papers and information. Here is a moving film of one woman's journey to find out what happened to her Grandmother - a survivor
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjNW8V8Ej2U"]Witness - Witness - Grandma's Tattoos - YouTube[/ame]

 

great documentary , http://www.flickr.com/photos/aboudaoudelhalabi/1631981737/

 

http://www.jdemirdjian.com/Armenians/Armenian_Genocide_Pictures.htm

pictures ...

 

I dont say no Armenian died.I just say killing was mutual.Also serious amount of Armenians were robbed and murdered by Kurdish Hamidian regiments and other nomadic Arab tribes during relocation.My mother's uncle's grandfather was killed by Armenians in Erzincan eastern Turkey during the incidents.Just like the other hundreds of thousands murdered by armed Armenian Tashnak bandit gangs in Anatolia between 1910-1922.They beheaded him in front of his family and the rest of the family members hardly managed to escape to Istanbul from Armenian terror and lost eachother on the road.They managed to meet again years later.These kind of stories can be found in both sides.I dont remember anyone ever apologized from Turks for what they did to them.As a result,Turks wont apologize for defending their country in a World War which claimed the lives of more than 2 million Turks both civilian and military combined.Unlike you,I dont just say "this happened,that happened",I can support my thesis and I dont do it with empty nationalist emotions.

 

http://www.politicalforum.com/western-europe/238836-armenian-genocide-fake-photo-illustrations.html

 

End of the line. I have talked with another person from Turkey on the net who genuinely believes the same as you and has given links to information which confirms it. I do not however believe it is the whole truth.

I am aware that there were some Armenian terrorists. That however does not excuse the decision to get rid of the Armenians any more than a few Muslim terrorists and extremists in the West is a reason for people to start anti-islam extremism.

I have made some notes on the short video below.

Ataturk called the events of 1915 A Shameful Act

Ottoman and Western Documents corroborate the narrative of the Armenian genocide

15 days between removing the Armenian's and putting Muslim immigrants in villages.

Archives reveal orders to split families and Armenian children to be taken away and particularly Armenian girls to be forcefully married to Muslims so that they will forget their Armenian identity.

'Stop Talking of Deportation' – he quotes an Ottoman officer who after witnessing the 'deportation' of those who were supposed to be being resettled resigned, realising it was not resettlement but murder. He said 'Stop talking of the Deportation, say instead that this was a decision to exterminate the Armenian Nation and there will no longer be any need for arguments “

Now it is true that some people were not killed but were put out into the desert to die - I mean how exactly are you going to live in the desert without food and water...and it is true some survived and managed to reach help. I have an Armenian net friend whose grandparents were survivors and managed like many others to get to Lebanon. However this is much worse and more one sided than you say. Obviously it does need to be looked at properly and a judgement made.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RX5pdnju3g&feature=related"]Speech Of Turkish Historian: Armenian Genocide - YouTube[/ame]

The other Turk I mentioned talked of being afraid that the Armenian's may want land. Perhaps that is why the genocide is not acknowledged and a new beginning made.

Regarding all your photos. This means nothing. If someone puts up a photo and says it is something and you have proof it is not, then there might be some point. At the moment it means nothing.

 

Taner Akçam's words are his own opinions.When people want to show a "turkish genocide acceptance" as a proof.They always use his name.That doesnt mean that its the absolute truth.But you should consider the fact that (if u didnt know it),Taner Akçam doesnt know a single word of old Ottoman Turkish language yet he tries to show Ottoman documents as a proof of his allegations.There is an irony here.Also he never studied through national archives.Certain people may serve to certain political agendas.Everybody is entitled to their own ideas.

 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mo4uKiNlD0A"]ERMENÄ° SOYKIRIMI YALANI Armenian Genocide; eyewitness; Armenian Turkish; armenian terrorism - YouTube[/ame]

 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxw-cw1gzF4&feature=related"]Armenian Genocide Lie ( Turks witnesses 1 ) - YouTube[/ame]

Those old people dont have a reason to lie

 

well I do not know the man personally but for the very first thing he said, he noted how the papers complained that he was lying that Ataturk called the genocide 'a shameful act' but then on looking it up they found what he said to be correct so you are wanting me to take your word against his and your word against my Armenian friend. People often get translators if they do not speak a language so that is a silly argument.

If I was relying only on him I might need to research him but I have read other Turkish historians and seen other's speak on youtube. Here's the thing, there is no way it is as you say. No way. There was massacres and forced deportations that is known. That is what people call the genocide. On that there is no doubt. The fact that you try to deny there was anything apart than mutual civil strife for me says everything.

 

So you avoid the attrocities Armenians did to Turks? Thats your own choice.A historian should work with archives.If you want to study Ottoman archives,you should have requirements to do so.You should know the language,if you want to study bible or quran,you should know latin,hebrew or arabic languages.The departments regarding these fields are not opened for fun,they are opened to educate future science people.

No comments about the videos I posted? Thats what I thought.By the way,can you write who are those other Turkish historians that you mentioned? Ignoring the facts and looking at the issue with a one sided perspective is not a proper way to discuss something.

 

These Turks must have committed suicide.Oh no wait,that is nationalist propaganda for you probably.A few more hundreds of thousands Turks like them died too but who cares right?

 

where exactly did I do that. I was not speaking about that. What you have just done is a technique called deflecting in order not to deal with the issue.

Whatever ills Ataturk may have done does not take away that he recognised the Armenian genocide.

No I think that would make it impossible for most people, though that is possibly the idea. If a person has an expertise in historical research it is fine for them to work with someone who has expertise in the correct language.

Oh it's some time and my memory is not too good. I simply know I have. You though know there are plenty of Turkish historians who have delved into these things some at great cost.

I'll tell you what. Let's look also at the Turkish Genocide of the Greeks

http://www.greek-genocide.org/faq.html

I gave you quite a light offering earlier on. I simple suggested it needed a judicial examination and questioned whether Turkey's refusal to acknowledge this was because of a fear the Armenians would put in a claim for land. It is your refusal to acknowledge that that makes me think you know you have something to hide.

No, I didn't look at your film. I have though previously looked at various propaganda presented by the other Turk I mentioned. I am assuming it is similar. Now did you watch the video I presented. How do you account for the mountains of bones going as far as the eye can see in Syria, known to be those of Armenians massacred by Turks. What answer do you have to that? First things first.

 

When did you ignore the attrocities of Turks? Simply all the time.When you dont have enough knowledge about what you stand for,you end up blaming the other side with propaganda and lies.Because those were not served to you.You simply ignore every fact.You call photos,videos propaganda but everything you say are objective truth? Thats just ridicilous.Armenia didnt open a single archive or carried the issue to international war crimes tribunal in more than 90 years yet you talk like you are an expert about it.You disrespect the pains and sufferings of Turkish people by calling them a propaganda.You call 100 year old people in that video who suffered from Armenian terror during world war I lies and propaganda.Thats really disgusting.You probably think I lied too about my mother's uncles grandfather who was beheaded by Armenians.Thats just an unhealthy and sickening point of view and hostility.Because you dont have enough knowledge to call them propaganda or lies.You keep talking about the whole issue based on assumptions and "what if"s.I can talk about it for hours but you will still call my opinion lies and propaganda and you will keep on saying the same thing with different words which is all about the crumbs of information you digged in from a sell out historian.I am not surprised though or I dont blame you,considering your location you are just another chronic case and product of a westernized mainstream version of history and slandering campaigns.I think you need that eye opener light you suggested to me more than myself.You can stick to your limited knowledge and ignorance towards Turks and keep calling every historic fact and photograph which you dont know anything about and which is not part of mainstream history promotion as lies and propaganda.Do I care? No.There is no need to keep on discussing with people like yourself because talking to you wont be any different than talking to a brick wall.You can keep on believing what you want,ignoring everything and keep playing your little defender of humanity games in lame internet forums with other western europeans and americans here whose histories are full of the real genocides you seek in other nations histories.Maybe we can discuss some day when you learned what Armenians or Greeks did to Turks.You can get enlightened enough to conduct an objective discussion.Thanks.

 

@EndOfTheLine EndOfTheLine

one question> do you see a difference between www.aljazeera.com, bbc, etc productions and your Turkish school homework youtube "prodactions"? sent your Turkish BS to CNN BBC Aljazeera and wait for answer

 

Yes, very true nobody is in the dark about Ottoman/Turkey's history

British records

http://www.genocide-museum.am/eng/british.php

US Records

http://www.genocide-museum.am/eng/american.php

Turkish records

http://www.genocide-museum.am/eng/turkish.php

Plenty more available

 

Bullsh*t is your lame uneducated propaganda which you spread around here.My videos and photos are more offical and real than your conspiracy theories.You can only trick uneducated or ignorant people like yourself with them.I dont watch bbc cnn or al jazeera.But maybe if you send your wikipedia bullsh*t to them and other western/diaspora sponsored junk,they would give you a propaganda medal.The psychologic state of your mind and how you convince yourself with such crap is the result of your illeterate courage.I am not a mind programed uneducated life form like you.Have fun here with posting your main stream western fabricated history crap here.It wont change anything.Real version of history is much more interesting.Now dont disrespect to the pain and sufferings of Turkish people and go back to stormfront where you belong.