Question for libertarians & conservatives

You mean in spite of your screw ups?

You have not refuted anything. You picked a statistic in May which was midway between Covid19 and the delta variation. The cases were at a low point. Later on, the delta virus became dominant and the vaccines were not as effective and that May statistic was meaningless.

 

Interesting choice of words. I don't believe what they are doing can be considered "policing" This is the problem with allowing the government to grow powerful. No one will stand up to the monster we created. Let me know if you get a chance to watch WTH.

 

I refuted your confusion on the comparison of two stats, the confusion of which is not dependent on dates.

But your error in logic confusing one stat with the other is still a valid and salient point, the error of which is not dependent on dates. If you were confused about two points 10 years ago or 50 years ago it doesn't matter, that is, IF you don't adjust your thinking, so, if you don't adjust your thinking to remove the error in logic in your mind (requires admission of the error) you are very capable of making similar errors of logic in the future. So the date doesn't really matter insofar as that particular point , so far, you have not indicated you are adjusting your thinking.

Now then, wanting latest stats is a reasonable request, so..I found some later stats, still supporting vaccinations.

Done in September, proving conclusively that those who are unvaccinated will be better off if they get the shots:

 

Excellent thoughtful response. However, there is one other aspect of UHC that is detrimental beyond the cost anomalies you so aptly discussed. That is one of the primary but hidden objective of the government for UHC (think Medicare for all) is the additional control that the government gets over the people. Think Obamacare. Obamacare had a ton of government intrusion -- changing all the treatment codes, food labeling, national centralized data base of everyone's health and treatments, medical practitioners filing reports on every medical treatment provided to everyone, reporting on other information gleaned from patients like if they owned a gun (which later went away IIRC), etc. -- none of which made any improvement whatsoever in anyone's health or medical care.

 

Name one time that I have disagreed with that statement.

I notice that hospitalization has now gone from one in two hundred to one in ten.

 

It's kind of a side note, but the super rich can do absolutely nothing with their wealth without paying taxes other than give it away as a charitable contribution or just keep counting it.

 

Well, there are monsters and then there are monsters ( Donald Trump ).

'Regulating', that would be the more articulate term than 'policing'.

 

Again, you are making a false comparison.

(If I recall correctly, I lost the link )
One in 200 has to do with the percentage of covid deaths who are vaccinated

one in 10 has to do with the risk of vaccinated who are hospitalized

The latter, therefore, is NOT an evolution of the former, statistically speaking, and therefore you can't compare the two in that context.

That doesn't mean they are not indirectly related, but that isn't the context you are claiming.

 

I agree completely, and you make a great point.

I have countless problems with the concept of government run healthcare. Without giving it much thought and just speaking off the top of my head...They can limit costs, but that also limits future innovation. Government run anything is inefficient. The notion that some bureaucrat in the future trying to improve their budget by limiting expensive end of life care options and them ultimately making life and death decisions without the benefit of them having to compete in the free market that could overturn their cost cutting decisions. The potential that exploding healthcare costs could do to destroy the economy. Putting everyone's life in the hands of an ever changing government over the next 50 or 100 years. The very likely potential for rationing because supply does not always step up to meet demand as it does in a free market. Rampant fraud that exists with all government largesse such as Medicare currently etc etc. The list is endless. I simply did not want to go down the rabbit hole of such a lengthy discussion in a thread where that topic is an irrelevant tangent.

 

Think IPAB aka Death Panel which was protected from any practical congressional challenge and shielded from all judicial challenges..

 

You apparently have a severe memory problem. You first post in this thread.
"But, here is the inescapable fact: 99.5% of the ICU Covid beds are occupied by the UNVACCINATED".

And you accuse me of having a memory problem.

 

This was an issue long before Trump, but since he has your attention, I will use him an example.

How much power should Trump (And those like him) have?

The answer is to never allow the government more power than you would give your worst enemy.

 

Isolating the most susceptible to Covid (approx. 25 percent) won't shut down economies. Won't shut down social groups and won't destroy a person's psychology. Not worrying about cases will ease the burden on hospital resources, allow restaurant dining w/o a vaccination card. Will allow in school learning w/o mask wearing (wearing a mask does nothing to retard the spread of Covid, anyway).

If epidemiological morons had just been more logical in their thinking and less reactionary and hysterical, we'd be coming out of the pandemic and the economy, a person's sociology and psycholgy would be on the way to recovery. With a worrying about number of cases, the pandemic and all the phobias of the pandemic are perpetual.

BTW now that more and more people are fully vaccinated, less and less of those approx. 25 percent who're highly susceptible to Covid will need to be isolated.

 

Your question is loaded. In order to answer it I have to accept your opinion which is unverified on vaccines.

Why would you type something this extensive out just to pull this dishonest tactic?

 

Post far too long so I shortened it to discuss Idaho.
I spent 4 days in a hospital in Boise Idaho late in August.
First I did not have CV19.
St. Alphonsus our premier hospital treated me.
I was put in an exam only room for 2 days. I was told no open rooms were available due to CV19 patients in the same hospital.
The large hospital still only has beds for 387 patients. This means rooms for them with beds.
Think about this. If a patient has CV19 to the point of being in a hospital, don't you want them to separate each patient in a room just to be safer?

I still was treated. I then spent my last 2 days in a normal room. And man it was deluxe. It was double the size of most rooms. it came with it's toilet and sink plus a shower that was very nice. The exam room lacked any of that.
it was like you might expect in a jail. It was pretty stark in fact. It was not designed for a stay by a patient. It was temporary.

Idaho only has x amount of rooms for each patient. If they were ill with a different problem, they could double up my room was able to hold two patients. It held only me. Due to CV19 at the hospital. To keep me from catching it.

Since you and I are chatting about CV19, maybe you can explain this to us all.
Biden is killing patients at a higher rate than claimed to be done by Trump.
And Biden has the advantages of vaccines.
How can he lose more to the virus daily than did Trump?

 

I just talked to my specialist at Boise, ID St. Alphonsus hospital since she calls me 2 times per month to verify i am doing well and she denies St. Alphonsus boots you out if you have no chance to survive. I am in Idaho so she explained it to me.
She says not all hospitals in Idaho are nearly as large as St. Alphonsus in Boise is. She says her hospital has never at any point rejected patients for any reason. She says some rural hospitals only have several rooms so in their case they may move patents to where they do get treated. She says so far Idaho has not had such problems at all.

 

My sister once worked for this small hospital in Ca.
Imagine if you can suddenly they get 50 patients with CV19.

What can they do?

These tiny hospitals are also here in Idaho. So some plan had to be made for them just in case.

The following is in Garberville, CA.

• 
  Hospital - SoHum Health
  https://sohumhealth.org › Services
  
  Jerold Phelps Community Hospital is a nine-bed, Medicare certified, Critical Access Hospital (CAH). We offer laboratory, radiology, mammography, ...

 

This whole thing about hospitals being at capacity has nothing to do with the actual physical capacity of the hospital and has to do with 1/3 of the staff walking off the job. Prior is because they were furloughed because the hospital canceled all the business that they were doing. So much of the hospital is sitting derelict.

The major reason for hospital staff walking off the job they refuse to get the vaccine. Why would nurses who work their butt off to get a nursing certification with their butt off for a nursing job a pension just walk off the job?

I'm betting they know more about this whole thing than we do.

If you have a good relationship with your specialist in Boise ask them about this.

 

Try this. Go to any hospital, stay for some problem to be cured and tell them it is your right to be there and you do not pay for rights.
Your right to free speech is cost free. Your right in the 2A does not cost other than you to use it.
So tell the hospital and doctor you have a right to use them for free.

 

So far I am batting 0.
Due to my call to her, i hate to immediately bother her over this.
But check this out.
https://www.facebook.com/SaintAlpho...ross-the-country-and-here-/10157506877189452/

 

Don't call her just to ask. Just next time that you talk to her she might know it might not be something that occurs in Boise.

 

Well, you do have a memory problem, because I am fairly certain I didn't accuse you of having a memory problem, but feel free to prove me wrong.

No matter....

See, if we scrutinize this, the principle error you made, remains.

Though it is not one of 'memory' but one of 'false comparison'.

Well, both are true.

99% of all covid deaths are, indeed, by the unvaccinated.

So, my memory apparently accessed two truthful regions of my brain.

So, let's reexamine this, and see if the principle of your error of false comparison remains.

One in 200 has to do with the percentage of ICU beds occupied by the vaccinated.

one in 10 has to do with the risk of vaccinated who are hospitalized.

But one in 10 having to do with the risk of being hospitalized is not the same thing as ICU Beds being occupied. One can be hospitalized without being placed in intensive care. So, what does the one in ten pertain to? This link indicates only 'hospitalization'. That is where we got this from.



The latter, therefore, is NOT an evolution of the former, statistically speaking, and therefore you can't compare the two in that context.

So, the principle is still true, either way.

Now then, you made this statement in a prior post:

The stats indicate that I am much more likely to be hospitalized after taking the vaccine than originally thought.

Evidence, please.

 

You can't compare Biden stats to Trump stats.

Why?

Delta wasn't discovered until December 2020, didn't really take off until Biden. More severe, 2x more contagious. Most of the numbers now are delta.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/delta-variant.htm

 

No, I really can compare them.
There is some claims as to your 2 times figure.

CDC talks out two sides of it's face. First it claims vaccines are very effective. Then it talks of breakthrough infections. Why didn't that come up for Trump?

It was wrong to put the blame for CV19 on Trump. As you show you won't even blame Biden even though he has vaccines all over the place that Trump did not have.

Given two facts.
1. Trump produced vaccines.
2. Biden has not produced even one vaccine.

Last, deaths are skyrocketing under Biden.
Excuses for Biden never were made by Democrats to favor Trump as they favor Biden.

 

If you google the following, you'll find it

vaxxed are 10x less likely to be hospitalized. This is per a study done in september



99.5% of ICU beds are unvaccinated.