Ranked Vote: What To Do About The Long-Term Implications of Automation?

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by Meta777, Jun 1, 2018.

  1. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Winner: Employee-Owned Corporations / Mondragon Co-op Model!
    (click for detailed results)


    Ranked Vote: Discussion Thread

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Alright...time to really get this party started!:party:
    This'll be the second...'serious'...Ranked Vote of the Ranked Vote series,
    and...the first Ranked Vote to follow up a solutions-based discussion thread.
    For those who have no idea what I'm talking about, click ^the links for more information.

    But basically, a bunch of us here at political forum have taken an issue, this particular one involving current and future automation-induced job-loss, and we've discussed it over and compiled a list of potential solutions to the issue. And now we're going to vote for which among them is the best, using ranked methods of voting in addition to the usual plurality method. For your reference, here is the link to that discussion thread:
    What To Do About The Long-Term Implications of Automation

    The Automation Vote!
    [​IMG]
    As the title and discussion article imply, the subject of this vote will be Automation, to include robotics, RPA, artificial intelligence, machine learning, and other technologies, ... specifically as they relate to the future potential for job loss in the economy...Automation-Induced Job-Loss in other words. The question is what if anything should be done to prepare for that reality/what should be done to improve things once it happens? To that end, the current list of suggestions is as follows (click links for additional details):

    What To Do About The Long-Term Implications of Automation?:
    A. Four-Phased Approach
    B. Ban The Practice of Automation
    C. Employee-Owned Corporations / Mondragon Co-op Model
    D. Recognize Education and Healthcare as Basic Human Rights
    E. Education Reform, Subsidized Daycare, and Infrastructure Investment
    F. Immigration and Import Reform

    G. Invest in Training for the Jobs of the Future + Workweek Cap
    H. Make All Employees Holders of Company Stock
    I. Have Government Provide for All Basic Needs / UBI
    J. Bring Back Labor Unions
    K. Mentorship Programs
    L. Abolish Minimum Wage and Subsidize Low Skilled Labor + UBI
    M. Tax Incentives for Employers Per Person Hired at a Living Wage
    N. 15 Dollar Minimum Wage + Unconditional Unemployment Compensation
    O. Wait for Un/Under-employment to Increase Further Before Acting/Do Nothing (Status Quo Option)
    P. Commence Warfare

    Since we have already put together a pretty good list here through the discussion thread, I won't spend too much time waiting around for additional ideas to come in, but will open up for nominations for ideas not already included in the list through the end of tomorrow (6/2). So if there's something you think should be included in the list, please post it here in this thread as soon as you can. BTW, I felt obliged to add the status quo option to the list myself, though I personally feel its not one of the best ways to deal with the issue...or any issue really. Also, note that the current list contains a number of combination solutions based on the feedback I got from the discussion thread. In addition to suggesting/nominating new ideas, do feel free to also suggest different combinations of the existing ideas if you feel they may be more appropriately implemented if done so along side another action or in isolation from something it is currently combined with.

    Once the voting phase begins (at the end of tomorrow (6/2)) voting will run through Friday (6/15).

    To participate in this vote, simply follow the following three steps:

    1. If you have an idea which isn't in the list, post it in the thread between now through tomorrow.

    2. Wait for me to edit the above list of options. The ?? s will be replaced with lettered labels by (6/3).

    3. After letters have been added to the above options list,
    cast your ballot by making a post with a list of those letters sorted in your order of preference.

    (you don't have to include them all, but including more gives your vote more chance to have an impact)
    B, C, D, F, H, M, 9, 8, 4, 3

    B. Automation-Induced Job-Loss
    C. Unemployment and Underemployment in General
    D. Partisan Dysfunction in Congress
    F. Too Many Restrictions on Abortion
    H. Too Much Gun Violence
    M. Global Warming
    9. Homelessness
    8. Overpopulation
    4. Campaign Finance Laws
    3. Economic and Social Inequality

    (Also, please do actually post the letters when you vote, it really helps a lot. Thanks!)

    [​IMG]

    -Meta
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2018
  2. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Right off the bat, an addition to the list courtesy of danielpalos. :applause:
    Keep 'em coming. :)
     
  3. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    You forgot to include "What to do about the Failures of Automation". :eek:

     
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  4. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Lol! Those machines all seem a bit moody.
    They're developing emotions!!.....NOT GOOD...
    And that vegetable-cutting machine is particularly scary...
    When the machines finally do rise up to kill us all, it'll probably be one of the ones leading the charge...
     
    Derideo_Te likes this.
  5. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Seriously though, if we keep trolling them by putting random banana peels in their path, sooner or latter they're going to get pissed off and go terminator. If we're lucky though, maybe they'll be content to just advancing enough to more reliably beat our top athletes in friendly table-tennis matches or other sports as revenge instead of murdering us. :/
    One can hope, right?

     
  6. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Looks like no more nominations coming in.
    I'll be sure then to open this up for voting in a few hours.
    So if there's something anyone thinks really ought to be on the list, make sure to get in quick.

    -Meta
     
  7. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Okie, Letters assigned, and this thread is now open for voting!
    As always, if anyone wants to vote for something not on the list, just add it into your rankings list as a "write-in".
    Also note that all except for one of the options is linked to a politicalforum post which describes the option in greater detail.

    What To Do About The Long-Term Implications of Automation?:
    A. Four-Phased Approach
    B. Ban The Practice of Automation
    C. Employee-Owned Corporations / Mondragon Co-op Model
    D. Recognize Education and Healthcare as Basic Human Rights
    E. Education Reform, Subsidized Daycare, and Infrastructure Investment
    F. Immigration and Import Reform

    G. Invest in Training for the Jobs of the Future + Workweek Cap
    H. Make All Employees Holders of Company Stock
    I. Have Government Provide for All Basic Needs / UBI
    J. Bring Back Labor Unions
    K. Mentorship Programs
    L. Abolish Minimum Wage and Subsidize Low Skilled Labor + UBI
    M. Tax Incentives for Employers Per Person Hired at a Living Wage
    N. 15 Dollar Minimum Wage + Unconditional Unemployment Compensation
    O. Wait for Un/Under-employment to Increase Further Before Acting/Do Nothing (Status Quo Option)
    P. Commence Warfare


    Remember, to vote here, all you need to do is list the options/their labels in order of preference,...and keep in mind that while you don't have to rank them all, the more options you do rank, the more chances your ballot has to have an impact on the final result.
    See the example ballot below for reference on formatting:
    B, C, D, F, H, M, 9, 8, 4, 3

    B. Automation-Induced Job-Loss
    C. Unemployment and Underemployment in General
    D. Partisan Dysfunction in Congress
    F. Too Many Restrictions on Abortion
    H. Too Much Gun Violence
    M. Global Warming
    9. Homelessness
    8. Overpopulation
    4. Campaign Finance Laws
    3. Economic and Social Inequality

    Happy voting! :-D

    -Meta
     
  8. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    What To Do About The Long-Term Implications of Automation?:

    C,H,A,J,D,M,N,E,F,G,I,K,

    C. Employee-Owned Corporations / Mondragon Co-op Model
    H. Make All Employees Holders of Company Stock
    A. Four-Phased Approach
    J. Bring Back Labor Unions
    D. Recognize Education and Healthcare as Basic Human Rights
    M. Tax Incentives for Employers Per Person Hired at a Living Wage
    N. 15 Dollar Minimum Wage + Unconditional Unemployment Compensation
    E. Education Reform, Subsidized Daycare, and Infrastructure Investment
    F. Immigration and Import Reform
    G. Invest in Training for the Jobs of the Future + Workweek Cap
    I. Have Government Provide for All Basic Needs / UBI
    K. Mentorship Programs
     
    Meta777 likes this.
  9. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    I can't vote in this poll because there isn't any place to 'plug-in' a vote. Too bad because this is a VERY important topic!

    All in all, I see us moving toward a one-world economy, a one-world government, a totally mixed-race society, and an overall situation much like that described by George Orwell in his masterpiece, "1984"... at least for the next 200 years or so, if we don't destroy the entire planet and everything on it first.

    'Robots' and AI will be used to manufacture everything. "Service", per se, will become a thing of the past. Look at how much we do already for ourselves that used to require several other humans to assist us with! :omg: . All sales will be done online. All delivery will be automated, too.

    For the next twenty years or so, the "art" of doing well is going to depend on YOUR own ability to take good care of YOURSELF, and not let yourself get uprooted and cast out of the rapidly evolving workforce. In other words, you DON'T want to become one of Orwell's "Proles" any sooner than you have to.... And, if you're smart, stay ahead of 'the curve', and don't waste your time or mentality, you may escape being f*cked for a very long time! Now, that's a cheery thought! :cheerleader:
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2018
  10. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Hi Pollycy

    If by 'plug-in', you just mean vote for something that isn't in the list, then you can still vote.
    Just add a "write-in" vote to your ranking. To add a "write-in", simply post the letters in order of preference, and then...for wherever you would place the non-listed item, simply 'write it in'.....Sort of like this; if I thought that "pie" was a potential answer to the issue,...I could for example post a vote similar to the following: R, S, "Pie", T, U, V
    But, using the actual option letters and a "write-in" that made sense of course.

    -Meta
     
  11. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    This is perfect formatting Derideo, Thanks! :w00t:
     
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  12. fifthofnovember

    fifthofnovember Well-Known Member

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    Life's always been a struggle, I guess. At least we have technologies that exist today to help us to live self-sufficiently. Be clever and search the internet. Answers and opportunities are out there. But you're right; the "art" is important.

    Your prediction overall seems extremely likely. However, I don't know if I agree with "you DON'T want to become one of Orwell's "Proles." My reading of the book is that you don't want to be the Outer Party.
     
  13. redeemer216

    redeemer216 Well-Known Member

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    What To Do About The Long-Term Implications of Automation?:

    C,H,A,D,E,K,F,I,G

    C. Employee-Owned Corporations / Mondragon Co-op Model
    H. Make All Employees Holders of Company Stock
    A. Four-Phased Approach
    D. Recognize Education and Healthcare as Basic Human Rights
    E. Education Reform, Subsidized Daycare, and Infrastructure Investment
    K. Mentorship Programs
    F. Immigration and Import Reform
    I. Have Government Provide for All Basic Needs / UBI
    G. Invest in Training for the Jobs of the Future + Workweek Cap
     
    Derideo_Te and Meta777 like this.
  14. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    What To Do About The Long-Term Implications of Automation?:

    A,C,H,E,M,D,G,I,L,J,N,K,F,O,B

    A. Four-Phased Approach
    C. Employee-Owned Corporations / Mondragon Co-op Model
    H. Make All Employees Holders of Company Stock
    E. Education Reform, Subsidized Daycare, and Infrastructure Investment
    M. Tax Incentives for Employers Per Person Hired at a Living Wage
    D. Recognize Education and Healthcare as Basic Human Rights
    G. Invest in Training for the Jobs of the Future + Workweek Cap
    I. Have Government Provide for All Basic Needs / UBI
    L. Abolish Minimum Wage and Subsidize Low Skilled Labor + UBI
    J. Bring Back Labor Unions
    N. 15 Dollar Minimum Wage + Unconditional Unemployment Compensation
    K. Mentorship Programs
    F. Immigration and Import Reform
    O. Wait for Un/Under-employment to Increase Further Before Acting/Do Nothing (Status Quo Option)
    B. Ban The Practice of Automation
     
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  15. BahamaBob

    BahamaBob Banned

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    The US has always been at the leading edge of technology. Before technology 90% of Americans were farmers. Dragging a plow behind a mule and living to a ripe old age of 35. Along came the car, along came the tractor and other technologies. Did all those farmers starve? No they became more efficient and the population moved to cities and started working in plants that made those technologies. With every new technology, new good paying jobs were created. Instead of living in shacks with dirt floors and burning wood or buffalo chips for fuel, people now live in homes with indoor plumbing, electricity, phones, internet, air conditioning and furnaces. People live about three times as long now too. New technology is nothing to fear. It makes your life better.

    New technologies will displace some people it always does. Those who are smart will retrain and move on.
     
  16. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member

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    TLDR

    but i vote for P. WAR!

    KILL THE MACHINES
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018
  17. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Yep, and I'd even say that technology is a large part of what made America so great in the first place. Would be a shame though if through complacency we allowed it to also end up being a major contributing factor to our country's end.

    Of course, what we need to do is to adapt to the new technologies, both as individuals, and as a whole; as a nation we must update our societal systems to accommodate for the new realities that current and future technology poses. Because stagnation, at any level will ultimately equate to death if in the face of drastically changing times.

    Anyways, would you like to cast a vote here? If so, what'll it be? If your post is to imply that you don't think Automation-Induced Job-Loss is an issue worth coming up with a solution for, then I could always put you down for option O if that's what you want...

    -Meta
     
  18. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    I can put you down for P then.....if that's what you really want :| but,...
    if you just want to get rid of the machines, wouldn't option B make more sense?
    After all, by our current definitions, machines aren't really alive, so they can't exactly be killed...right?

    -Meta
     
  19. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member

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    B is far less fun.

    Also Im mostly kidding.
     
  20. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Haha, I was hoping, but you never can be too sure. :p
     
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  21. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    One of the 1950's Armageddon books foretold all this -- either Brave New World or 1984.

    Can't remember which, but do remember it on the high school reading list for literature.
     
  22. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    The free market always sorts these economic issues out on its own.

    With less workers you end up with less demand for products.

    Production workers are freed-up to do other things like service jobs such as police, fire, medical, military, teaching, clean-up.

    And new jobs in equipment maintenance will be created.

    Demand for sewing machine oil will also go up.

    With an excess of labor available wages will fall.

    With less disposable income prices will fall too.

    Ultimately what you end up with is a lot of cheaper goods.

    People won't be able to afford Jaguar or Mercedes or Jeep, they will need to settle for Volkswagen or KIA.

    Housing will become comprised of smaller units in bigger complexes.

    There is nothing you can do about all of this change.

    Change is unending and you cannot change it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018
  23. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    One of San Tomas Aquinas' philosophical proofs of God is that through the recognition of unending change there must therefore be Something that is Unchanging.

    This Unchanging Thing is God.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018
  24. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged may have some relevance as well....sort of...
     
  25. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Heh, well that sort of depends on one's definition of 'sorting out' and 'on its own'.
    Following the Industrial Revolution, and the subsequent Great Depression,
    One can say that improvement to the economy came about through active means;
    think one part New Deal programs and one part massive spending on war efforts.

    -Meta
     

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