Routine Traffic Stop leads to 7 dead - in Odessa

Why bother answering if you can't be bothered with actually reading what you are responding to.







"Officials arrested 42 of the gang members last week across the North Texas area, U.S. Attorney Erin Nealy Cox said Monday during a news conference.

Nine others were already in custody for unrelated state charges, and six are still being sought, she said."

 

This issue is NOT symmetric.

Action groups oriented to dominating a minority can't be compared favorably to groups that are working to promote equality and to defend the rights of minorities.

 

It's a loophole in that it is a path around background checks.

There certainly are documented instances of mass murderers being denied guns by background checks, and then successfully buying guns through a loophole such as private purchase.

https://www.apnews.com/e7eb1dc5241c4daa9d93b58e826a93ec

I'd point out that there are for-profit businesses whose service is getting around background checks.

 

I think it is sad that so many Americans, who have the opportunity of enjoying living in a country that honors & practices individual freedoms, spend their lives living in self-imposed fear that they &/or their families will be subjected to armed intrusions inside their homes. I recognize there are examples of that happening, in some sections of our largest cities, & on occasion in smaller communities, by thieves or gangs, but the total number of such incidents are so small compared to society at large, that they don't deserve the attention & self-inflicted pain they cause. Instead of focusing on becoming a civilian special forces clone, & missing all the benefits the society around us already offers, due to fear, why not re-focus our lives on enjoying the benefits already in place around us? That would seem a much more appropriate & happy course of action, for ourselves & those around us whom we love.

 

You sound like you're advocating turning America into a vigilante society, where everyone is responsible for their own self protection, & we can't allow ourselves to depend on law enforcement officials to protect us anymore. Is that accurate?

 

Except the private sale in that case was barred because the arm sold was home manufactured and the seller was not an FFL to be selling guns he made.
To be clear: You can make your own, but only YOUR OWN. You can't transfer homemade examples without a license and if you have a license you can't do a private sale.

So.... not really how it works there chief.

 

We have never been able to depend on law enforcement to protect us, just to clean up the mess afterwards. Do you have a cop posted at your front door at night? How could a cop possibly predict when and where you or your family will be attacked? they might be able to occasionaly make a big bust, but they will never be able to predict random acts of violence and crime.
That being said, I fully support the wonderful job they do at policing the streets and getting rid of criminals who have already committed a crime. It is a mostly thankless job these days.

 

As I've said, it will take more than just one law.

The illegal purveyor of that weapon should be charged with the felony murders he facilitated through his illegal act.

That would apply to any transfer where a legal background check didn't allow the transfer.

There are issues of storage, robbery, reporting, etc.

And, I'm sure that's not the end of it.

Today, someone who loses their right to own a firearm is asked to turn over their weapons. But, nobody knows what weapons they own. So, we somehow expect someone who has DQ'd themselves from firearms ownership will voluntarily hand over all their weapons??? There is data on how many women get shot by husbands and boyfriends after they no longer have gun rights.

 

This is true for all crimes. Policing deters by making the odds of being caught increase. Taxpayers buy the level of coverage they want.

 

I think you don't understand: He knew he was breaking the law by selling a homemade without a license. Making it double illegal wouldn't have presented any problem.

 

Having this guy and others like him in prison on multiple felony murder charges would be a deterrent.

Tell me what his exposure is for having not obtained a license.

 

Well its at least one federal felony and also a state felony iirc.
So you know... pretty illegal already.

 

If you really know these business you probably ought to report them. It would be a service to the forum if you would name names here so we all could avoid doing legitimate business with them unknowingly.

 

I'm not a member of the gun toters of America, so I read about them in the news.

 

Cool. Still not naming names though?

 

???
What names do you think I have? And, why do you think I have these names you want?

I don't remember claiming that I had names other than what is in the press.

 

Just thought it would be interesting to know who these evil companies are you brought up. If you want to keep them a secret it seems odd you would mention them at all.

 

??
I was referencing a case in the press where a guy was denied a weapon due to background checking and he subsequently acquired an AK style weapon through a loophole and went out to kill people.

Referencing accounts that are published in the mainstream press is totally legit.

 

I’m interested in the for profit businesses that specialize in circumventing background checks. I seriously would like to know who they are so everyone can avoid them. They should be outed so their legitimate business (if any) suffers.

I have never heard of such a service and wouldn’t know where to look. Since you have knowledge of them I was just hoping you would share. No biggie.

 

I agree.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/13/us/guns-background-checks.html

 

So Facebook is aiding and abetting gun crime? Facebook hasn’t allowed any kind of firearm advertising for years.

I gather you are opposed to private sales in general? None of the sellers in the article were doing anything but following the law. Unless someone knowingly sold to a prohibited person which is illegal under federal law. I’m guessing someone willing to violate one federal law would not be stopped by another.

So really what we have is a desire to change existing law. Because no businesses here are circumventing anything, just doing business in accordance with the law. Personally I don’t like drunk drivers and intoxicated wife/child beaters. But I don’t think background checks on purchasers of six packs and 1.75 liters are the way to go.

Just out of curiosity, what private transactions would you allow? Could I still give my wife a gun for Christmas or would she need to go get a NICS? What about loaning a rifle set up to shoot varmints to a neighbor that doesn’t have that type of weapon? Do you think private property rights ever enter the equation? These questions are just for the sake of discussion, I’m not trying to make a point.

 

Loop holes are not against the law which is the point being made. To close those loop holes requires a change of law such as back ground checks and registration required for all gun transfers.

 

I understand your position on loop holes. I disagree with the claim businesses are actively helping people avoid background checks. Back to drunks. This is like saying the liquor store is helping people abuse children.

 

You failed in your reading of the article I posted.

Facebook isn't the problem. It's that people on Facebook let potential buyers know where/how to find those who sell guns without background checks.

And, you ailed in that I've never suggested that I'm opposed to private sales. Private sales are inevitable.

 

After I had to create an account to read the article I read it. Facebook doesn’t allow any advertising of firearms They used to have groups but not anymore. Your original premise was that there are businesses that help people circumvent background checks. Your article shows no evidence for that. I bet people use landline phones to hook people up with guns they shouldn’t have. None of that is relevant.

I asked your opinion on private sales. I agree they are inevitable. I was just curious where you think the legal line should be.