Prove the contrary in your posts from now on... Impress me with that knowledge you have not yet flaunted!
Instead of jumping straight to conspiracy. Have you explored the obvious. They are ignorant and lazy. Haven't researched or in depth analysis. But jumped on bandwagon seen on media shows. This might explain some or most.
Yeah whatever. They still pass their nationality to their siblings, hence they are double passport holders. You say that, while I sourced "half of the Jews are 1st the direct descendants of immigrants." Double passport holders. Hence it ends up being 65%.
I'd like to see proof of that one notme as this is not an Israeli criteria but rather the second nation such as Poland, Germany or wherever they came from as they would be the ones issuing the second citizenship on a case by case basis so please, prove your point. I don't say it Wiki does; ""Among them, 70.3 percent were Sabras (born in Israeli), mostly second- or third-generation Israelis, and the rest are olim (Jewish immigrants to Israel)—20.5 percent from Europe and the Americas, and 9.2 percent from Asia and Africa, including the Arab countries.[24]"" So, in order to prove your point you have to go case by case to show that half of the Jews in Israel who were born there applied to the nation their parents came from and were accepted according to their criteria to be issued a citizenship with that nation and, show that of the "20.5 percent from Europe and the Americas, and 9.2 percent from Asia and Africa, including the Arab countries" that none of them renounced their citizenship of the nation they came from. I await your proof - patiently.
Well. For the luls since you name Germany: A person born of a parent with German citizenship at the time of the child's birth is a German citizen. Place of birth is not a factor in citizenship determination based on parentage. That is (part of) the German nationality law. Thats how it works. But I did, with your source. Your source claims half of the Jews are European descendants. And by default they got double nationalities because they inherit it by right of birth. /facepalm
So true.......... but the expectations of what the Jewish people will accomplish for the whole world...... is very very high?! Genesis 18:18 "Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?" The majority of the deceased want to see a nation of Israel where the implications of the Barbro Karlen - Anne Frank case are understood. We can be Jewish in one lifetime...... Christian in another...... Islamic in another..... Buddhist, Hindu or Animist in another lifetime............ we are all each other's great, great, great grandparents.... from past lives.... but we are also each other's great, great, great, great...... grandchildren...... from those probable past lives. The Jewish people are predicted to rise up in Consciousness first...... and when they do....... racism in ALL NATIONS.... will be conquered. http://www.politicalforum.com/race-...head-past-life-regression-under-hypnosis.html What is that white guy doin in my head? (Past life regression under hypnosis). I read both of Helen Wambach Ph. D.'s books back in the '90's and I am convinced that they have the potential to transform race relations. Well over sixty percent of Dr. Wambach's volunteers were women.... but almost exactly fifty percent of past lives viewed/ perceived.....were of men! White people see themselves as Black and Japanese and Chinese and Aboriginal in past lives. Roughly ninety percent of past lives viewed would be described as "poor" which is almost certainly not what would happen if people were simply remembering scenes from movies that they viewed as a child or teenager. http://www.carolmoore.net/articles/helenwambach.html ............. http://www.iisis.net/index.php?page=semkiw-anne-frank-barbro-karlen-reincarnation-past-life
This thread is about singling out Israel while ignoring other nations but I've never done that. Personally I've always called for UN Security Council resolutions authorizing economic sanctions against India, Pakistan, and Israel that would be identical to the economic sanctions currently imposed against N Korea because all of these nations are rogue nuclear weapons nations. If we accept the principle that nuclear weapons are unacceptable then we should all be demanding that all four of the rogue nuclear weapons nations be subjected to the identical economic sanctions and also calling for further reduction in the nuclear arsenals of the five authorized nuclear weapon nations under the NPT. Would you support UN Security Council resolutions imposing severe economic sanctions on Pakistan, India and Israel because all of them are rogue nuclear weapons nations just like N Korea? Shouldn't the UN Security Council be addressing Israel like it addressed Iraq when Iraq invaded and militarily occupied Kuwait? Israel invaded "Palestine" in 1967 when it attacked Egypt, Jordan, and Syria, but not the Palestinians, and has remained in military occupation since then. The Palestinians weren't a threat to Israel in 1967 so why has Israel remained a hostile military force of occupation for almost 50 years? Isn't it time for the UN to address the hostile military occupation of Palestine by Israel just like it addressed the hostile military Iraq occupation of Kuwait? Universally I've condemned all nations that are established based upon race, religion, ethnic heritage, national origin, gender, social/economic status, or other invidious criteria that divides the people into the "preferred" and "disparaged" and all of the nations including Israel are established based upon this invidious criteria. From an ideological standpoint there's no difference between a nation founded upon the Muslim religion, a nation founded upon the Jewish people, or a nation founded upon the Aryan race because all are based upon an invidious criteria that divides the people of the nation into the "preferred" and the "disparaged" and the disparaged people are always oppressed. While the extent of tyranny established by different invidious criteria can vary the tyranny always exists. Do you oppose tyranny is the real question because anyone that opposes tyranny opposes all nations established based upon an invidious criteria? Israel is not being singled out but instead there are those of us that believe Israel should be treated just like other world nations. It should not be granted "special treatment and protections" when it violates the Geneva Conventions and the UN Charter, both of which are treaties, where Israel is a signatory member. Yes there are some anti-Semites that only condemn Israel but Israel cannot hide behind that fact while it remains a rogue nuclear weapons nation that continues to violate international laws, treaties, and imposes the tyranny of it's hostile military occupation of Palestine denying them their sovereign rights as people.
So hence the double nationalities in Israel is somewhere between 50 to 75% easy. Since most are foreigners or direct descendants of them.
I doubt that most of them are active in the non Israeli portion and many such as the Russians have let their passports lapse I certainly have to agree that the possibility of them all holding a second passport is there.
Good for you! Difference is North Korea started and maintains a state of war with South Korea thus is unequivocally the aggressor. Wouldn't work as they would simply give their notice as per Article X and withdraw as they are at war. Nope. Nope. Kuwait never declared war on nor attempted to invade Iraq rather Iraq did that to Kuwait thus is unequivocally the aggressor. Palestinians were part of the Arab League in 1948 and as part of that organization they collectively declared war on Israel thus were the aggressor. Since then they have never attempted to distance themselves from this war by being neutral of calling for an end to the hostilities rather the reverse, their official policy is and has been the violent destruction of Israel. As such, Israel is within their rights to occupy territory during time of war to deny the enemy use of same. While the use of the land by settling it is illegal the occupation of it is not. As soon as there is a sustained peace treaty yes. I do and hope Palestinians will cease their official policy of violently destroying Israel, embrace peace, rescind their declaration of war and get their nation as per the terms and area outlind in UNGA 181 in 1948. They are at war. A war declared on them by the Arab League with only two of the members having made peace with them so, fall under article 51 of the Charter first and all other criteria and laws second. If and when this situation becomes unbearable the Palestinians will seek peace.
Since when did they double that number? I haven't heard or read about it yet. There are arguments that even the six million number is too high. Do you have a link to verify your new claim? I'd be interested to see that.
""Of the 11 million people killed during the Holocaust, six million were Polish citizens. Three million were Polish Jews and another three million were Polish Christians. Most of the remaining victims were from other countries including Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Ukraine, Russia, Holland, France and even Germany. "
I said I doubted it. Prove your point if you wish but I'm certainly under no obligation to prove an opinion.
Still no link or source for this new figuring? Oops... I got it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Poland
Link included in the quote from the source. Oh, not new figuring rather it seems everybody but you knows there were five or six million Poles, Gypsies, homosexuals, invalids and political persons exterminated during the Holocaust as well as Jews. Crack a book sometime.
And I say it's irrelevant and you can't proof it. So it's nonsense. I mean.. that is how you're going at it here. So right back at ya.
Its your extremist misinterpretation of what you think you hear. Its not the message-its your message, your stereotype, your rigid false labeling and your closed mind.
Ron Star's claim to being a Jew does not make him an instant authority on Israel or Judaism. In fact I would say his opinions reflect a lo of confusion as to what the hell he thinks he is ranging from his constantly changing flags to his flipping and flopping about as to his stance on Israel. His being a Jew is not relevant. You brought it up because you think because he's a Jew, if he says something anti Israelis, its automatically credible sincehe's a Jew That is a pathetic stereotype thrown back on this forum-oh well if a Jew is anti Zionist it ust automatically be credible....horse crap. - - - Updated - - - Your attempt to hijack he thread to engage in a purile debate about the holocaust ain't working. Rung along and find another thread to hijack. - - - Updated - - - That kind of mature, deep, inciteful dialogue is most appreciated.
This thread does not and has never dealt with the origins, sources, and exasperating factors that fuel the conflict between Israel and Palestinians. Where you got the idea I was connecting the two I have no idea. I was discussing how alleged criticism of Israeli state policies is used as a vehicle to question the right of Jews to be Jews. Now if you were really interested which I doubt, you could start a thread on the psychological phenomena associated with the distrust between Israelis and Palestinians but I think you would be quite disappointed to find out most Israelis and Palestinians don't hate each other, and have as many conflicts within their own communities as they do outside them. You seem to stereotype all Israelis and Palestinians in one foul odour of hatred. The fact that Hamas, the PA and 300 other terror cells monopolize Palestinian politics and manipulates young unemployed angry youth to engage in violence doesn't mean all Palestinians are hateful anymore than this idiotic notion all Israelis hate Palestinians. Hey if it makes you feel better to call them both tribal savages knock yourself out. Playing the role of Bwana and looking down on these savages, thanks but I have been there done that. Pith helmets. Ridiculous.
You really want to trot that crap right back up on the thread? You do that and snack while you are at it-quick as you put it back up so I will I: "Part of this bigoted standard is the stale attempt to suggest Jews are not Jews, they are Khazars which is as false as any other anti semitic bilge about Jews as anything else passed out as discussion on Israel. http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/features/1.601287 Think anti semites care that what they repeat is bilge? Of course not. Out come the alleged encylcopedias from Jews to say Jews are khazars. I call that pathetic, and I say, its a classic attempt at insulting and attacking Jews using the pretext of Israel discussions to do it. Here I will once again address this crock of falsehoods: The Khazar hypothesis has been proven false b y genetics. This attempt to suggest Ashkenazi Jews are not ethnically Jews, but descended from the Turkic Khazar Empire is used by anti Israels who pretend Jews today in Israel were not born there or come from Arab countries, India, Ethiopia. Africa, Asia and South and North America but they are all Khazar impostors. The argument today is regurgitated on KKK, neo-Nazi and anti Israeli web sites and it seeks to argue that not only are all Israelis not Jews, but Jews are not Jews. Ironically these same anti semites who argue with one cheek that today's Jews don't have Jewish blood are also the same bigots who like Hitler would define then as Jews for hate purposes. Go on ask yourself. The people who think Jews are Khazars, would they embrace these so called Khazars if they suddenly all went-hey man we ain't Jews we were wrong. Sure. Only anti semites who hate Jews would try suggest what they hate isn't a Jew but is but isn't depending on what cheek their gas blows out of. The idiot attempts to quote Jews or Jewish encylopedias to try gain instant credibility for this sheer fabrication depends on cutting and slicing only certain words. In fact yhe term "Ashkenazi" is well defined and refers to Jews whose paternal ancestors immigrated to the following parts of central and eastern Europe: France, Germany, the Netherlands, Austria, Hungary, former Czechoslovakia, Belarus, Lithuania, Poland, Romania, Russia, and Ukraine. It excludes Jews from the Balkans, Greece, Italy, and the Iberian peninsula (Spain). Now while it is historic fact that some Khazars converted to Judaism around 740 C.E. mainstream historians, i.e., except for neo Nazi bafoons who think they can reinvent history and no one will notice, only royalty and some members of the aristocracy actuallyconverted. So while possible that some Ashkenazic Jews would have Khazar ancestry, the vast majority would not. Now what makes the idiotic claim they are Khazarian even more possibly stupid than idiotic is the following scientific fact used to repudiate this idiotic fabrication which as fast as its put up on this board to counter this crap, is ignored: ".... DNA studies over an extended period of time support the fact that Ashkenazic Jews originated in the Middle East (also called the Near East). Some of these studies include the following: Hammer, et al. conclude that the Y chromosome of most Ashkenazi and Sephardi Jews contained mutations that are also common among Middle Eastern peoples, but uncommon in the general European population (source: Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, 2000). This suggests that the male ancestors of the Ashkenazi Jews could be traced mostly to the Middle East; The proportion of male genetic admixture in Ashkenazi Jews amounts to less than 0.5% per generation over an estimated 80 generations, with "relatively minor contribution of European Y chromosomes to the Ashkenazim," according to Hammer et. al. (source: Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, 2000); Two studies by Nebel et al. in 2001 and 2005, based on Y chromosome polymorphic markers, suggest that Ashkenazi Jews are more closely related to other Jewish and Middle Eastern groups than to their host populations in Europe -- defined in the using Eastern European, German, and French Rhine Valley populations (source: European Journal of Human Genetics); In 2004, Behar et al compared data from Ashkenazi groups in ten different European areas (France, Germany, the Netherlands; Austria-Hungary, Byelorussia, Lithuania, Poland, Romania, Russia, and Ukraine ) with data from non-Jewish groups in seven different countries (France, Germany, Austria, Hungary, Poland, Romania, and Russia). They found that nine of the Jewish groups were similar, with low rates of admixture with non-Jewish groups, but that these Ashkenazi groups were closely related to non-Ashkenazi Jews and to some non-Jewish Near Eastern groups (Human Genetics, 2004); A 2006 study by Behar et al. based on high-resolution analysis of haplogroup K (mtDNA), suggested that about 40% of the current Ashkenazi population is descended matrilineally from just four women, or "founder lineages", that were likely from a Hebrew/Levantine mtDNA pool originating in the Middle East in the 1st and 2nd centuries C.E. Behar et al. suggest that the rest of Ashkenazi mtDNA is originated from ~150 women, most of those likely of Middle Eastern origin. (source: American Journal of Human Genetics, 2006); Medical studies of the DNA of various diaspora Jewish populations -- from Iranian, Iraqi, Syrian, Italian, Turkish, Greek, and Ashkenazi -- have shown them to all be close Middle Eastern kin (source: American Journal of Human Genetics, 2010); and Ashkenazi Levites paternally descend from an Iranian people, not from Khazars or Slavs, according to genetic evidence revealed in a study by Siiri Rootsi et al. (Nature Communications, 2013). Since no other paternal or maternal haplogroup among Ashkenazim comes from a Central Asian Turkic source either, there is a total absence of evidence for Khazar ancestry in Ashkenazi Jews. Kevin Brook, who has been researching the possibility of Khazar ancestry for 20 years among Ashkenazim and wrote a book entitled "The Jews of Khazaria", concludes: "Surprisingly, there is evidence for small amounts of southern Chinese, Berber, and Slavic ancestry in Ashkenazi Jews, but not for Turkic Khazar ancestry." Here is the scientic proof of the basis of Ashlenazis proving the above idiocy that Kews are Khazars wrong: http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v.../5201319a.html http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC18733/ https://www.familytreedna.com/pdf/43026_doron.pdf http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3032072/ http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2013/13...comms3928.html Now you want to know why Israel is singled out? Its simple-it is because it can be used as a vehicle to attack and insult Jews, in this case denying we exist or advancing bigoted notions that immigrants to a country are less worthy than native borns and that Palestinians whose majority are descended from non Palestinian can magically be considered Palestinian, but Jews...well hey every last one of them is a European immigrant. Better still read the verbal refuse in the words of Ria Raeb. In his bigoted analysis of a Jew, their fleeing the holocaust makes them a colonialist. Never mind they fled colonial powers. Never mind the Arab League of Nations that tried to wipe them out were in fact colonies that tried to wipe out the Jews-we just reinvent history to pretend Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Iraq, Lebanon, Syria, Tunisia, Morrocco, Algeria, Libya. Iran, Bahrain, Yemen, Oman, the UAE, Kuwait, oh them created as colonies? Them colonies when they tried to wipe out Israel. Oh no see those Jews escaping the holocaust they were the colonialists. Never a thread, never a post about Israel without the need to try revise history to deny Jews are a people, and we exist as a people, have a nation for our people, and anti Jews choke on that concept. Go on you anti semites, please tell me how your discussions about Jews being Khazars is not anti semitic, its just criticism of Israel. Please tell me how you are only criticizing Israel not all Jews smeering us all in one foul fart. This Jewish writer says loud and clear, no more gas. Never again. Lie all you want about us-we know who we are, where we came from, and where we intend to take ourselves. You can't handle our being masters of our own fate-I have some choice words for you and they are not in Khazar. "
my religion is irrelevent. I am not anti-Zionist. I am against Neo-Zionism, which is the right wing, racist version of Zionism that doesn't believe in the 2-state solution. I want a Jewish state, within the 1967 borders with minor adjustments if the parties agree. i want a hundred thousand or so refugees to be allowed back into Israel, if they swear to be good peaceful citizens.
