Spirituality without God

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by YourBrainIsGod, Feb 8, 2020.

  1. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Imo there is no reality without consciousness. He thinks it exists independent of consciousnrss

    While it is my opinion that it doesnt ..
     
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  2. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    WTF?

    We live in an eternally changing universe!

    How difficult is it to grasp that concept?

    Ever heard of the Cyclical Universe model?
     
  3. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Nope!

    There is zero evidence that the energy of the universe stems from any deity. If there was any such evidence then it would establish that a deity exists. Since there is no evidence it is pure SPECULATION on the part of theists to believe that their imaginary deity is the "source" of the energy in the universe.

    The matter and energy of the universe EXISTS and given the laws of physics the universe is eternal and undergoes transformations. We are observing the current state of the universe and from our observations it is clear that it transforming from one state to another over an extremely long time scale.
     
  4. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Our common consciousness creates what we perceive as reality.
    There probably isnt reality separate from consciousness. If consciousn is fundamental instead of matter.

    Consciousness is still the hard problem.
     
  5. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There is no way to prove if matter is fundamental or if consciousness is fundamental. Both are assumptions. Some people are not learned enough to realize this and it remains in the realm of philosophy and not science.

    You assume something while not able to see the assumption.
     
  6. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Nope!

    The assumption is entirely on YOUR side, not mine!

    The onus is entirely on YOU to prove your position while DISPROVING the factual reality as established via the scientific process.
     
  7. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying that matter is an emergent property of consciousness? If it was so, consciousness would've been a basic component of all matter. Is it?
     
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  8. rahl

    rahl Well-Known Member

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    no, I hold the scientific position.
    you can not demonstrate anything other than the material actually exists.

    we know that it is not, as reality predates the first known lifeform by billions of years.
     
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  9. rahl

    rahl Well-Known Member

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    I'm not excluding them. I'm pointing out reality exists whether you are alive to think about it or not.
     
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  10. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    And what if you lack belief in the existence of gods and also lack belief in the none existence of gods?
     
  11. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Try the same logic with unicorns!
     
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  12. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    what if the sun doesnt shine on monday?
     
  13. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    ah, yes someone else will be alive to think about it :icon_picknose:
     
  14. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    then it would be a lie to say everyday is sunny. Thanks for the analogy.
     
  15. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    sure anytime you need a response to your off topic trash just let me know
     
  16. rahl

    rahl Well-Known Member

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    which has no effect on reality.
     
  17. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Just how can you claim this objective reality of yours exists if its outside our abilities of perception or that of any instrumentation?
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
  18. rahl

    rahl Well-Known Member

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    it existed billions of years before the first lifeform came into being. your perception of reality has no bearing on it.
     
  19. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Now thats brilliant, you know this reality of yours exists despite no one can perceive or detect it. Truly genius!
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
  20. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    If you are going to deny objective reality, you no longer have any ground to stand on in a debate of any kind. No surprise there.
     
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  21. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Try this.....slam your head full force into a brick wall....I am going to assume that hurts and if done hard enough will eliminate your consciousness. After you awaken tell us what you learned.
     
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  22. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    Just want to say that I 100% emphatically agree that this is true. Consciousness is still the (or at least a) hard problem.

    Your interpretation seems to be panpsychism. I've got no problem with that, but we have to face that fact that ALL explanations of consciousness fly in the face of our common sense and, in some cases, even our personal experiences. I see no reason to privilege one over the others at this point. The only one I reject out-of-hand is eliminationism -- the reductionist idea that we aren't actually conscious at all. I'm also on the side that says consciousness is somehow connected to the physical brain, even if we don't know all of the details yet. You change your brain chemistry, you change your consciousness. You physically change the brain, you change your consciousness. Seems pretty related.

    The main flaw I see is that everyone offering an account of consciousness focuses on the weaknesses of competing theories, ignoring the same weakness of their own, rather than building their own case.
     
  23. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Answer the question:

    So you know this reality of yours exists despite no one can perceive or detect it.

    Explain this nonexistent reality to us
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
  24. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    I'm not going to make a habit of answering your demands for answers when you so rarely address any of them, but yes, I know a reality exists that is independent of my own desires and preferences. I know it exists even when no one is perceiving or detecting it for reasons we can get into later, and I'd also like to address the (unlikely to ever be addressed) absurdity of the fantasy that the obverse is the case.

    "Reality doesn't exist" is a self-contradicting statement. Catch up.
     
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  25. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    Why are you trying to flag the statement above as absurd when it is one you (sometimes, you are always inconsistent about this one) claim to hold yourself?
     

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