The "Israeli Apartheid" hoax

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Pisa, Nov 7, 2023.

  1. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I know that Amnesty International published a heart-wrenching report about the Israeli apartheid, and the press uncritically presented it as God's own gospel. However, Amnesty had to twist, turn, and pinch the definition of "apartheid" - in order to somehow be able to pin it on Israel - in such unnatural ways, that the original meaning was lost for all eternity.

    Anti-Zionists and assorted fellow travelers can't of course be bothered to even read the report, let alone critically analyze it. They never let facts stand in the way of a good anti-Israel narrative. Don't believe me? Here they are, some of the most virulent anti-Zionists out there, publicly acknowledging that their claim about Israel being an apartheid state is a lie, and they knowingly promote this lie.

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1689738207938613248

    I've been able to confirm the first two independently, from non-Israel-friendly sources. The third is from MEMRI, whose translations are accurate.

    Straight from the horse's mouth...yet I'm quite sure that most of our resident anti-Israelis won't budge from their "bad apartheid Israel" stance even when proof of the contrary is dangling right under their noses.

    Well? Apartheid or not apartheid?
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2023
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  2. StillBlue

    StillBlue Well-Known Member

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    Apartheid.
     
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  3. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Donor

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    They are somewhere in between. It's not cut and dry. It's easy to see the chain of causality that leads to things like Oct. 7th, and Israel is a part of that chain. So too are the citizens of Gaza and especially the terrorists they elect to represent them.

    The problem here is, there is no clear-cut solution either. There are many want the dissolution of Israel. Yeah that's not going to happen. Might as well wish to turn iron into gold with the touch of your hand. This is a non-realistic non-starter of a solution.

    So since Israel is going to continue existing in that part of the world, alternative solutions must be reached. I suspect that if Israel was no longer being threatened and attacked by their more fervent Muslim neighbors, the situation would subside. But that won't happen either because of idiotic religions and the people who have hijacked those religions to serve their own self-interests and enrich themselves.

    But at the same time, you can't treat people the way Israel treats the people of Gaza and not expect repercussions. Doesn't matter that they cite security as the reason, the end result remains the same. Clearly this method of dealing with the situation isn't working. So what will?
     
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  4. TheImmortal

    TheImmortal Well-Known Member

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    Force the Palestinians out of Gaza and the West Bank.

    The people there will always hate the Israelis but the Jews don’t need to have them living in their own country.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2023
  5. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Some context is called for.

    The argument that Israel practices apartheid, explained

    Some Israel scholars and former Israeli officials have also started using this designation. In 2022, Michael Ben-Yair, a former attorney general of Israel, said that “it is with great sadness ... I must also conclude that my country has sunk to such political and moral depths that it is now an apartheid regime.” Earlier this year, Tamir Pardo, a former head of Mossad, Israel’s intelligence agency, emphasized, too, that “there is an apartheid state here” featuring “two people [who] are judged under two legal systems.”

    In protests and critiques of the Israeli government’s military actions this month, political leaders and activists around the world have often referenced the term while condemning the country’s policies.

    The Israeli government, meanwhile, has argued that any claims that it practices apartheid are “preposterous and false,” antisemitic, and dedicated to singling out the country. (Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International have also condemned and examined apartheid elsewhere, including in Myanmar, where the Rohingya minority group has faced a great deal of violence.)

    Israel isn’t alone in its criticism of the term, which has been the source of international debate. Those who oppose its use, including the pro-Israel civil rights group Anti-Defamation League, argue that some of Israel’s restrictive policies toward Palestinians in the occupied territories are driven by security concerns and that they don’t view these policies as motivated by racism. Some critics also claim that the term apartheid cannot be used because only Palestinian noncitizens outside of Israel’s internationally recognized borders suffer from confinement and other potentially “inhumane acts,” while Palestinian citizens of Israel purportedly have the same rights as all other Israeli citizens, such as the ability to vote and run for office.

    https://www.vox.com/23924319/israel-palestine-apartheid-meaning-history-debate

    As always, Vox gives a fair minded explanation with views from both sides.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2023
  6. StillBlue

    StillBlue Well-Known Member

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    One month prior to the Hamas attack
    In Israel and the U.S., ‘apartheid’ is the elephant in the room
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/08/11/israel-palestine-apartheid-israel-scholars/

     
  7. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    How should Israelis treat the people of Gaza?

    What exactly constitutes apartheid in how Israel treats the people of Gaza?
     
  8. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely apartheid when you factor in the right of return being exclusive, only for white Jewish ppl.
     
  9. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    The most virulent proponents of the "apartheid" narrative openly recognize it's a lie. Don't need more context than that.
     
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  10. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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  11. StillBlue

    StillBlue Well-Known Member

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    Feel free to use search of "Israeli apartheid" and you will find many Jews outside and inside Israel using the term apartheid.
     
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  12. zalekbloom

    zalekbloom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The term "apartheid" is an Afrikaans word meaning "separateness" or "the state of being apart.". These were characteristics of apartheid:

    Racial classification: All South Africans were classified into one of four racial groups: white, black, colored, and Indian. This classification system was used to determine where people could live, work, and go to school.
    No such think exist in Israel. Arabs can learn in Jewish schools, can live any place they want and work as policemen, doctors, judges and more. Few years ago an Arab judge sentenced a Jewish president to jail.

    Segregation: Apartheid laws segregated people of different races in all aspects of life, including housing, education, employment, and public facilities.
    Again, no such thing exist in Israel.

    Disenfranchisement: Black South Africans were denied the right to vote and participate in government.
    No such think exist in Israel, there are Arab parties in Knesset, Arabs members in Jewish political parties, even there were Arab ministers.

    So why some people call Israel an apartheid state?

    The best explanation is this joke:

    A motorcyclist was riding by the zoo, when he saw a little girl leaning into the lion’s cage. Suddenly, the lion grabbed her by the cuff of her jacket and tried to pull her inside to devour her, right before the eyes of her screaming parents.
    The biker jumped off his bike, ran to the cage and hit the lion square on the nose with a powerful punch. Whimpering from pain, the lion jumped back and let go of the girl. The biker then took her to her terrified parents, who thanked him endlessly.
    A reporter saw the whole scene, and addressing the biker, said, “Sir, this was the most gallant and bravest thing I saw a man do in my whole life.”
    “Really, it was nothing,” said the biker, “The lion was behind bars. I just saw this little kid in danger, and acted as I felt right.”
    “I noticed a patch on your jacket,” said the journalist.
    “Yeah, I ride with an Israeli motorcycle club,” the biker replied.
    “Well, I’ll make sure this won’t go unnoticed. I’m a journalist, you know, and tomorrow’s papers will have this on the front page.”
    The following morning the biker bought the paper to see if it indeed brought out the news of his actions. On the front page was the headline: “Israeli gang member assaults African immigrant and steals his lunch.”
     
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  13. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

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    The ANC in South Africa call Israel an apartheid state and if anyone should know, it's the Zulu.
     
  14. zalekbloom

    zalekbloom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Last edited: Nov 7, 2023
  15. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    You will also find many Jews outside and inside Israel refuting the label. Jews are not one single-minded hive, you know.

    How do you choose which Jews to believe? Are all the other Jews wrong, or lying?
     
  16. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Yeah you can. In fact, unless you are yourself suicidal It is damn near a necessity. The Palestinians Have been abusing Jews off and on for centuries.
     
  17. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

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    Tokenism. There are thousands more left stranded in Ethiopia.

    Jewish Europeans brought those Ethiopian women to Israel so they could sterilise them in the hope of purifying the white race of Israel, presumably.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2023
  18. zalekbloom

    zalekbloom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, there are Jews outside and inside Israel using the term apartheid, there are Americans outside and inside the US who call the US a fascist country and there are Russian outside and inside Russia who call Russia democratic peace loving country.

    My suggestion to you: in discussions, don’t look on religion, skin color or political party association of your opponent, check the contents of his/hers/it arguments.

    And about an apartheid - find first definition of the apartheid and check if it applies to Israel.
    Hint: if the country where an Arab judge can sentence a Jewish president to jail fits the definition of 'apartheid state'.
     
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  19. zalekbloom

    zalekbloom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The same true as a theory that the reason the Blacks crime rate is so high in the US, because Blacks want to expel White people from the US.
     
  20. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  21. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Obama Wants Biden Out.

    The 'Democratic Party and the American left are currently embroiled in a battle over whether evil should be countenanced or destroyed, whether there should be any moral judgment made on important issues at all, and whether Israel has a right to exist or not.'

    '“The newer way of thinking by younger leftists sees Israel as an occupying power. This new way of thinking tags Israel as genocidal, cruel, and without honor. It also excuses the worst atrocities by Hamas, justifying them as part of the resistance to occupation.'

    Israel resumed statehood after the Hitler tried to exterminate them.

    [​IMG]

    REMEMBER REVEREND WRIGHT

    'We stand against anti-Semitism not just for the Jews but for ourselves — and not just for our souls but for our survival. Never forget that Hitler wanted to conquer the world as well as killing all the Jews.'

    'Obama is an anti-Semite. He is stoking the worst in Americans and people around the world. Megyn Kelly tweeted, “I literally cannot keep up with all of the anti-Semitic acts all over my news feed right now.”'

    This faction of the Left brings to mind Hitler's youth.
     
  22. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I examine the evidence. More to the point, what difference does the disputed label make since the level of oppression is well documented?
     
  23. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    When an article calls far-left politicians Yossi Sarid and Shulamit Aloni - both dead - "leading Israeli politicians", that article is worth less than the bits it occupies. Those two haven't been relevant since...well, never.

    The Guardian is a far-left rag. It supports the apartheid libel of course.

    The OP shows clearly that the apartheid libel is part of a chosen narrative designed to influence public opinion, and is not anchored in reality. This raises the question "what else are anti-Zionists lying about"?
     
  24. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    Oh, lots of things in the anti-Zionist narrative can be disputed, including alleged levels of oppression, which by the way is not apartheid per se, but who cares about facts if they stand in the way of a good anti-Zionist narrative. Here you are, saying just like the three musketeers in the OP that facts don't really matter.

    There's a lot of disinformation about Israel and the Palestinian territories. Show me your data, I'll show you mine.

    FYI, I live in Israel.
     
  25. zalekbloom

    zalekbloom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The answer to the question if Israel is an apartheid state is obvious to anyone who knows what apartheid is and what Israel is - you don't need support of any famous people or famous organization. If Amnesty international will say that 2 + 2 = 5 and many politician agree - I will still argue 2 + 2 = 4 (in decimal system).

    Here is an example how famous people and famous organization can make mistake:
    The New York Times on 31 March 1933, Walter Duranty denounced reports of the Holodomor in Soviet Union:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Duranty
     

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