The Taliban have WON in Afghanistan... (really?)

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Jazz, Jul 10, 2019.

  1. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member

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    July 9, 2019 –
    On June 26 two US special forces soldiers were killed in Afghanistan, bringing the total of US military personnel who have died in that useless war to 2429.
    No matter what one might think about the rights and wrongs of the war in Afghanistan, it is sad to record such fatalities, and the question that comes to mind is:
    What did they die for?

    According to the US State Department the military are there because “we continue to invest US resources to help Afghanistan improve its security, governance, institutions and economy.”
    The Pentagon says the principle goal… is to conclude the war in Afghanistan on terms favorable to Afghanistan and the United States.”


    Read more here:
    https://www.fort-russ.com/2019/07/op-ed-the-taliban-have-won-in-afghanistan/
    -----
    Does anyone of you know? Oh sure, you will say, 9/11 and Osama! But that was about 18 years ago! How much longer do you want to occupy and harass the Afghani?
    Something sinister is going on, I suspect. Exploitation? Afghanistan may be primitive but they have a wealth of rare minerals...

    $1 Trillion Trove of Rare Minerals Revealed Under Afghanistan

    https://www.livescience.com/47682-rare-earth-minerals-found-under-afghanistan.html
    ---
    Aha... now we know!
    2429 dead American soldiers
    31,000+ civilian deaths
    29,900 civilians wounded.
    Over 111,000 Afghans, including civilians, soldiers and militants, are estimated to have been killed in the conflict.
    360,000 additional people died through indirect causes related to the war.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_in_the_war_in_Afghanistan_(2001–present)


    When will the USA be done "improving" the lives of the Afghan people?
     
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  2. MGB ROADSTER

    MGB ROADSTER Well-Known Member

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    The pro Islamo Arabo Jihado propaganda against USA is pathetic.
    The current situation in Afghanistan is a paradise relative to what happened to the citizens during the Taliban period.
     
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  3. JessCurious

    JessCurious Active Member

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    What the Us has done for the Afghan people is free them from a murderous, tyranical theocracy and given them a chance for self-determination, freedom and democracy. Other countries must
    think a worthwhile cause as well, since 29 other countries have lost lives fighting against the Taliban in Afghanistan as well.
     
  4. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Well-Known Member

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    You cannot stand for womens rights and at the same time find fault with the fact we are fighting the Taliban. You have to choose, one or the other.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
  5. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

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    The initial invasion of Afghanistan predicated on destroying terrorist training camps sanctioned by the Taliban government was without question justified. After the camps were destroyed and Osama went into hiding in Pakistan the reasoning to stay longer was because if we left the Taliban would just let the terrorist back in country and things would return to as if we had never been there. After a while the natural human tendency of freedom and democracy loving people to spread the wealth so to speak took hold and the goal became to leave a free and democratic Afghanistan behind when we left as a tribute to our presence and a legacy for America. That's when things started getting really muddy. We did it in Japan and Germany and the hope was we could do it in Afghanistan but in that part of the world with it's religion and history and ancient society it has proved to be impossible. We should have realized that's long time ago and quit throwing good blood and treasure after bad.
     
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  6. JessCurious

    JessCurious Active Member

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    I don't entirely agree with you, but I appreciate your thoughtful and intelligent posting.
     
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  7. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member

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    Aah... you have been there lately? Tell us more about this paradise, please.
     
  8. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I see... it has nothing to do with 9/11 or the Trillion Dollar resources they have?
    What a shame, the US had to kill so many of them and devastate and pollute their landscape as well to free them from the Taliban! Makes me wonder why the Afghans want to take the US to court?
    Hague Court Turns Down Afghan War Crimes Probe as US Hails Victory

    In 2017, chief prosecutor Fatou Bensouda asked judges to allow a full-blown probe not only into the Taliban and Afghan soldiers, but also international forces, particularly U.S. troops and members of the Central Intelligence Agency.

    Angered, President Donald Trump‘s administration said it would deny visas to any ICC members involved in probing U.S. troops and, last week, it revoked the visa of the Gambian-born Bensouda.

    https://theglobepost.com/2019/04/12/afghanistan-icc-trump/
    ------------
    Could the USA and its agent have committed war crimes and crimes against humanity?
    What do you think why Trump won't allow an investigation?
     
  9. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Banned

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    Just as Trump spends countless hours on the golf course, many of his pals in the Afghan armed forces spend multiple hours raping little boys in the Bacha bāzī rape rooms. He wants to protect his pervy pals and to save face while those innocent boys are tormented.
     
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  10. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    The minute Bush said we are fighting the Taliban, the war was lost.
    It now reminds me of Iraq. As long as we fight for the Afghan govt. the longer it will be before they decide if the whole of their country is worth fighting for.
     
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  11. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe anyone in history has been able to conquer and hold all of Afghanistan.
     
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  12. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

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    There's a saying among Taliban fighters. " The Americans have the watches but we have the time".
     
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  13. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member

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    I thought at first you were joking, Mr.Truth, but I checked on the web and here it is...

    In all, it is believed that there are some 2,000 photographs depicting about 400 cases of US military personnel torturing Iraqis and Afghans at seven military prisons.

    One can only react with horror. Contained in the stories and images of the torture of defenseless prisoners, some of them boys and women, is the true face of US imperialism, which finds no crime beneath its dignity in its effort to subjugate Iraq and Afghanistan. Just as the Vietnam War conjures up images of napalmed children fleeing US soldiers, and Nazi Germany invokes images of emaciated prisoners near death, the images of sexual torture will forever be associated with the American “war on terror.”

    https://www.countercurrents.org/eley290509.htm
    -----
    I had to really search high and low to find an article depicting American crimes in Afghanistan. The first few pages write elaborately about the raping done by the Taliban and the Afghan soldiers raping their own women and kids. Smokescreen tactic!
     
  14. ArchStanton

    ArchStanton Well-Known Member

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    Ahhh......the liberal smells of desperation. :icon_shithappens:
     
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  15. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Donor

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    Just get out. :rant:

    Purchase those precious minerals later.
    It would be cheaper.
     
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  16. Diablo

    Diablo Well-Known Member

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    Certainly the British never managed it - the Northwest frontier as it was referred to. Neither did the Soviets.
     
  17. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Banned

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    Yup. All you get from me is the TRUTH and nothing else.

    At first these were Bush's rape rooms. When Obama tried to withdraw our troops he was condemned by the right wing for trying. Now that Trump has further entrenched these evil doers, the right wing is happy. Notice how not one has condemned this evil. Let's see if any will try.
     
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  18. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Context matters. While fighting the Taliban is perhaps a noble cause - the fact of the matter is that Afghanistan is a sovereign nation and they have the right to determine their own fate. While we are not violating international law - We have not made anything better and we kill many innocents. It is not like if we got rid of the Taliban we would get rid Sharia in Afghanistan so what is the point ? Getting rid of the Taliban would not improve women's rights by any significant measure. The country is full of Islamist nut jobs -including the leadership.

    Regardless - while you may stand for a principle - that is not why we are there. If we were going to war on the basis of improving women's rights - we would have been bombing Saudi Arabia a long time ago - and numerous other Gulf States. Instead we are best buddies.

    If we were fighting for women's rights - we would be on the side of Assad in Syria - rather than arming and supporting the Islamist Jihadists (Al Qaeda and ISIS) who want to turn Syria in to a Strict Sharia theocracy.

    While I don't think your Afghanistan example represents a legitimate "choose one or the other" as the situation is not black and white. Just because bad thing happen in other nations is not necessarily justification for war - We did have a vote in congress that was far more black and white - and a better example.

    The "Stop Arming Terrorist Act" came before congress - think it was last year. That should be a no brainer one would think. Obviously not arming and supporting Al Qaeda and ISIS supports women's rights and - well - they are Islamist nut job terrorists who were raping and killing Christians and other marginalized groups in Syria --.. en masse.

    The bill had 13 bipartisan co-sponsors - out of 435 in the house. When Rand Paul introduced the bill to the senate it got Zero co- sponsors.

    What ever the reason we are in Afghanistan for 18 years- and there are a few reasonable hypothesis - it is not for women's rights and it is not for chasing the 911 Terrorists (as this was not the Taliban).

    Rather than fighting Al Qaeda - we are now in love with them. We were on the same side as Al Qaeda in Syria and we are on the same side as Al Qaeda in Yemen - although not arming and supporting them directly as we were in Syria.

    One could argue that we did Al Qaeda a big favor in Libya by taking out Gaddafi - as they are far more powerful there than when Gaddafi was in power.

    Taking out Saddam was also a fulfillment of Bin Laden's wish. Iraq was a secular nation under Saddam - It is the fight against secularism that was what Al Qaeda is all about.

    In the meantime - we whisper loving words into the ear of El Saud - the cradle of the Saudi inspired Salafi extremist Islamist ideology that is held by Taliban, Al Qaeda, ISIS , Boko Haram, Al Shabaab, and a host of other groups of the same ilk all over the world.

    El Saud has been exporting this ideology all over the world for decades - arming and supporting these groups - it is an Orwellian totalitarian nightmare state but we love them all the same.
     
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  19. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Only them racist Arab haters think there are Arabs in Afghanistan. lol
     
  20. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    The US has just made the country totally unstable and started a civil war where there was none. The US massacred around. Loads of civilians got killed. We saw trials about injured Afghans being executed by US soldiers, a war crime, being excused for what they did. And you, just like the US government do not understand that you're not giving Afghans freedom, you're killing them. Afghans are made up by the Taliban. And since they are there, controlling a really large part of the country,... after a whole decade of being attacked by a super power,....you don't achieve that if they do not have a massive support of the Afghan population.
     
  21. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member

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    Sure, get out! That would be a good start, but first clean up all the Uran-Bombs in the ground and other contaminants, then pay hefty reparations. The amount should be determined by an international court.
     
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  22. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member

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    Just saw a note on the web... the Afghans are returning in droves from surrounding countries:

    Return of Undocumented Afghans - Weekly Situation Report (30 June – 06 July 2019)

    Highlights

    245,405 total returns from Iran and Pakistan since 01 Jan 2019

    233,619 total returns from Iran

    11,786 total returns from Pakistan

    9,936 undocumented Afghans returned from Iran with 8% of returnees from Iran (799 individuals) assisted

    562 undocumented Afghans returned from Pakistan with 83% of returnees from Pakistan (467 individuals) assisted

    Return from Iran
    According to the Border Monitoring Team of the Directorate of Refugees and Repatriation (DoRR), a total of 9,936 undocumented Afghans spontaneously returned or were deported from Iran through the Milak (Nimroz) and Herat (Islam Qala) border crossings between 30 June to 06 July 2019, a 5% increase from the previous week (9,466). 4,093 returned voluntarily and 5,843 were deported. This brings the total number of undocumented returnees from Iran since 01 January 2019 to 233,619 persons. IOM provided post-arrival humanitarian assistance to 799 (8%) undocumented Afghans deported from Iran at its Transit Centers in Nimroz and Herat, including 79 Unaccompanied Migrant Children, 56 Medical Cases, 66 members of Single Parent Families, 20 Physically Disabled persons, 19 Unaccompanied Elderly, 8 Single Females and 403 members of deported families.

    More details here:
    https://reliefweb.int/report/afghan...-weekly-situation-report-30-june-06-july-2019
    -----
    Now, that will add quite a burden to the Afghan government.
    USA, please open your purse and help ease the pain you have created in the first place!
     
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  23. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    And more effective at fighting the Taliban

    NO Puritan system has yet ever stood up to prosperity. From the depths of Stalinist Russia to the benighted wilderness of Amish Pennsylvania, once you flood an area with money people are going to want the freedom to spend it as they please.
     
  24. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    That is because the US threw in the towel and lost the war. The Taliban still has a massive amount of territory in Afghanistan under it's control. Maybe even more than half. I think I even heard that that the government of the Taliban is talking with whatever is still left in Kabul to partially take over ruling that place too.
     
  25. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Well-Known Member

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    Just like Vietnam. We leave the bad guys take over and make things worse.
     

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