The Woolworths ANZAC Scandal and Populist Restrictions on Liberty

Well that is pretty much the reality of it... especially in WW2, as we'd be speaking German or Japanese if the world did not unite to fight together against the axis forces. To pretend it might not have happened is just ignoring the lessons of history to prop up some whinging. You from the UK also culldav?

I think your the one with "scab' as you put it, its pretty obvious for most everyone else here what ANZAC day really is.

 

They can say whatever they like, doesn't mean what they're saying isnt laughably ironic.

I have never been a supporter of Tony Abbott and he has no relevance to anything I said.

 

As Anzac Day was commemorated as the War which should have been the last war I will think of all our Australian soldiers who died in that war, and all those of other Nations. I furthermore think of all civilians, who died and all those broken hopes and dreams ever since. Sorry, but I can't help it!
Regards

 

If you do that then you get into situations where various groups of service people are shunned because the campaigns are unpopular, which is exactly what used to happen with the Vietnam Vets and was pretty disgusting. Keep the historical geopolitics separate.

Tony Abbott said one of the stupidest things I've heard for quite awhile yesterday, calling Gallipoli a "magnificent defeat" or some such thing in an ABC interview. No Tony, thousands of young men throwing away their lives isn't "magnificent". All war is a tragedy, that's the general point.

 

This is Imperial Military Triumpalism:

[video=youtube;bDvhZNj4x8w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDvhZNj4x8w[/video]

ANZAC day hardly compares:

[video=youtube;dHvQgG6VtlE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHvQgG6VtlE[/video]

[video=youtube;kG4tzZ1fxXg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kG4tzZ1fxXg[/video]

 

Every Roman General had to have his victory celebrated by having a parade through Rome once. But even the Romans, over a thousand years ago, had the intellect NOT to celebrate wars and conquest every year on an a anniversary date, but Australians feel it necessary a thousands of years later to worship not only the people who fought and died in wars and conflicts - but even drummer boys from military colleges that have never seen war.

Why are people allowed to march in the ANZAC parade that have never been to war or seen any military conflict? What next; dancing girls spinning batons and big teddy bears?

The parade has just become a bloody facre.

 

The whole point is to commemorate veterans. I don't have a problem with people marching to represent dead family members or having a few marching bands. It's just about commemorating servicemen and women, it's not about parading the armed the forces.

I have no idea why you're comparing ANZAC day to Roman Generals celebrating victories.

 

If some people want to celebrate wars, death and killing every year with a parade, then that is there prerogative. But allowing people to march in those parades that have never seen active military service has turned your commemorative parade for "veterans" into nothing more than a free-for-all Madi Gras.

The point I was making about the difference between ancient Rome and modern day Australia, is that Roman generals only had ONE parade to celebrate and commemorate their victories and lossess, and only individuals involved in the actual wars/conflicts could march in the parades - bit different to Australia celebrating a parade every year, and allowing every Tom, Dick, and Harry to march in the parades.

What next, will all the relatives of the prostitutes that serviced all the military personnel during the wars and conflicts be allowed to march in the parade next. Dancing girls and big teddy bears?

We both know that anyone is allowed into these marches now, because its all about keeping the celebrations going by just making-up the numbers with anyone. Hell, they are so desperate to make-up numbers, they even have foreign troops marching now. Is that really commemorating the spirit of the Australian veterans?

 

You're making no point at all. ANZAC day has nothing whatsoever to do with "celebrating wars, death and killing".

Anyone can march if they want to for heavens sake. There are lots of foreigner nationals in Australia, no reason they shouldn't march.

 

Absolute rot - the trooping of the colours is a 400 year old British military tradition, with a practical purpose.

And, LOL, we do a ceremonial better than any of you bloody colonials could dream of - don't we!

 

He never makes a point, just rambles on and on.

He has been called out in another thread on exactly the same point, apparently posting stupid comments extends across threads.

What he is saying is, that every 30th January, my children and I do not have dinner and talk about their mother, remembering her and the young age at which she succumbed to cancer. It's not about keeping fresh her memory as they had so little time with her, just 9 years for my daughter and 14 for my son. According to CD we don't remember her, celebrate her life, who she was, instead we celebrate disease and death, we glorify cancer.

On the 11th November my father and I go to the cemetery and celebrate Alzheimer's Disease, not remember my mother, how for nearly 60 years she was a good and faithful wife. How she was always there for us as children, how she mended our hearts and skinned knees, no we don't celebrate her life, we celebrate death.

Now if this is not a perverted way of looking at things then I don't know what is.

 

A 400 year old military tradition, that hasn't had a practical purpose for at least 100 years, for a nation that highly values its military tradition and glorifies its imperial colonialism and makes legends around military figures like Churchill, Nelson, Wellington, Montgomery, etc.

Europeans in general love parading their military at every opportunity, and yes it's very impressive.

You're correct, Australia doesn't dream of replicating such things.

 

Ziggy and DV,
I most often agree and like what you say, with high respect, however I think in regards to Anzac and its late glorification, I don't share your final thoughts/standing.

Things have changed, dramatically so since John Howard (don't ask me why, as I don't know).

Before him, yes we can talk about commemoration, however since his reign, celebration and glorification took place.

Claude Choules, who was living in Perth and was the last survivor of both world wars, even he didn't like it:

http://www.workersliberty.org/story/2011/05/11/claude-choules-and-anzac-day

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/cla...ted-war-says-son/story-e6frg12c-1226015338023

I also agree that Anzac is important, but certainly not as a nation building event and not in the current state of blunt misuse.

If people want to show their respect, that is fine with me, and important. Kids however marching with their parents and waving flags and singing and dancing without any knowledge of the subject reminds me to North Korea (sorry, maybe this the comparison is a bit tough), but I honestly belief things are taken too far and out of context.

With those thoughts I don't want to downgrade Anzac or any of our soldiers, but the way it is conducted and misused. We will never stand up to discuss the Iraq War and the real reasons behind it, with 100's of thousands killed. Celebrating Anzac in its current form means turning a blind eye to our responsibilities and the things we did, right or wrong.

Anyway, regards

 

But who are the kids, they are generally descendants of diggerz doing so to carry on their memory... its not like they have schools marching and twirling sticks and waving flags of of the Queen and the PM. We just had an ANZAC day and I didnt see anything of what you suggest.

 

AT,
the two of us see many things differently, don't we?

Just had a conversation with our daughter today, discussing a problem regarding our grandchild.
Despite being sure to have outlayed or explained to her my point of view, she either didn't listen properly or interpreted my words in a complete different way.

Maybe everything we do and think about lies within our perception, much more than we anticipate. Well possible that I exaggerate my observations, believing what I see is wrong.

Regards

 

The man who recognises and admits the possibility of being mistaken, or misinterpreting something, is the man who is more likely to be correct more often, and is certainly more intelligent than one who is convinced he is possessed of the wisdom of the gods.

You have my respect.

 

Yes grasshopper, but the person who assumes that others think they are more intelligent or more correct simply because those people might have a different viewpoint which has not been challenged or question which has not been answered, is surely a donkey pretending to be a mule.

 

Grasshopper - LOL! How old are you?

 

You are referring to yourself of course

 

You'd like that, supports your delusion yes?

 

Your arrogance never ceases to amaze me. It must be such a burden to always be right, even if its all just in your mind.

 

My arrogance!? I was replying to you saying "You are referring to yourself of course" about me Turn it up LOL. Do you even make sense sometimes. Is it arrogant of me to call you out for being arrogant.... where does right or wrong come into it and why do you think I'm claiming to be right!? Heck if you want to be real about it, I was asking a question - hence the question mark. Or is asking a question arrogant now to you as well? I know you already don't like it when people disagree with you but this is a new low.

 

1) What were ANZAC'S doing - participating in wars and conflicts.

2) What were the ANZAC'S doing during those was and conflicts - handing out chocolates & flowers, or killing other people?

Therefore, celebrating ANZAC day is ALSO celebrating wars and killing.

 

You have lost the plot again, due to your own inability to come to terms with your own grief. With all due respect, remembering the day your wife passed away due to cancer is a completely different issue to people openly celebrating wars and killing each other. If you don't understand the difference, then I would suggest you seek some professional guidance.

The ANZAC'S participated in wars and killing, they were not Girl Guides handing out chocolates and flowers. Yes. ANZAC day was suppose to be a remembrance Day, but remembered for what? Willing to sacrificing their lives in wars that were none of Australia's business, and killing strangers in foreign countries?

Why don't we have a remembrance day every year for the nurses, firemen, doctors and people who get killed, that put their lives on the line every day of the week to help save others?

Why do we just seem to want to glorify and praise our military personnel?

 

This is the kind of nonsense comment that really scares the hell out of me, when I think you could possibly be in a position of authority over others.

Its a really backward, paranoid, selfish attitude, that belongs in medieval times, not in 2015. You want to celebrate the lives of white people who actively kill other white people during wars and military conflicts, because you see nothing negative about that, but you conveniently don't want to celebrate the lives of white military people who killed black Aborigines during the 1788 military conflicts, because its now a case of white people killing black people.

Using your own philosophy: the white British military were just doing what they were told by their commanders in 1788, just like the ANZAC's were?

Make up your mind dude, because you cannot have it both ways - its called contradiction.