There is no hope for Islam.

Response: Islam is a religion of peace and justice, so islam is not the problem. It is rather certain muslims, cultures, and actions of the West that's the problem.

 

some hamas guy who turned christian is giving advice to muslims,
calling them "my people".
it's like a beginning of a very funny joke.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bid‘ah

 

FALSE, and the truth is exactly the reverse of what you just said. The problem is the Koran and it's doctrine of war and INjustice.

 

Onward James posted:

You posted:

You posted some anti-semite drivel without reading again Mr. Saudi Goebbel...

 

So In the Midde East the Islamists rule most of the Muslim nations, and what will they do? Return to the Golden years of the Caliphate? Such an archaic ideology. Yet, many Muslims and apologists and appeasers might think Ilsma is winning.

"Second Period of Islamic Power" - Patrick Buchanan
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=48252

 

Response: To the contrary, the simple fact that you can not provide anything from the Qur'an or Sunnah that teaches injustice proves otherwise.

 

Please.... Christianity was ruthless in it's time, uncompromising. Islam may be just going through it's phase.

Most problems in the middle east (like we don't have problems in the west??) are probably due to the oppressive authority.

 

Quite the opposite.. Islam is at its heart a system of social justice... if its wrong its wrong whether you are a Muslim, Pagan, Jew or Christian.

 

HA HA HA. I have been posting dozens of suras from the Koran for months that not only teach war and injustice, but which advocate and command it. Here's a few, in case you've not been paying attention. These suras advocate war and injustice (misogyny, rape, slavery, pedophilia).

"Lord...Give us victory over the unbelievers." - Quran 2:286, "The Cow," Dawood, p. 46, and 3:148, "The Imrans," Dawood, p. 67.

"I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers." - Quran 8:12, "The Spoils," Dawood, p. 177

"When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them."
- Quran 9:5; "Repentance," Dawood, p. 186

"Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate." - Quran 9:73, "Repentance," Dawood, p. 198

"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them. Know that God is with the righteous." - Quran 9:123, "Repentance," Dawood, p. 206

"Those that deny Our revelations We will burn in fire. No sooner will their skins be consumed than We shall give them other skins, so that they may truly taste the scourge. God is mighty and wise." - Quran 4:56, "Women," Dawood, p. 86

"Women are your fields: go, then, into your fields whence you please." - Quran 2:223, "The Cow," Dawood, p. 34

"Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and forsake them in beds apart, and beat them." - Quran 4:34, "Women," Dawood, p. 83

"A male shall inherit twice as much as a female." - Quran 4:11, "Women," Dawood, p. 77

"If you are in doubt concerning those of your wives who have ceased menstruating, know that their waiting period shall be three months. The same shall apply to those [of your wives] who have not yet menstruated."
- Quran 65:4, "Divorce," Dawood, p. 557

"Forbidden to you are] married women, except those whom you own as slaves." - Quran 4:24, "Women," Dawood, p. 81

"If you fear that you cannot treat [orphan girls] with fairness, then you may marry other women who seem good to you: two, three, or four of them. But if you fear that you cannot maintain equality among them, marry one only or any slave-girl you may own." - Quran 4:3, "Women," Dawood, p. 76

 

That makes no sense.

 

Response: Verse 2:286- Asking for help over the disbelievers is not injusice, because the actual help being asked for is not unjust. Debunked.


verse- 8:12- the verse states that terror will be cast in the hearts of the infidels. The reason is due to their attacks on muslims unjustly, forcing muslims to fight back in self-defense. Muslims are forbidden to fight those who wish for peace (8:61) proving that it was the infidels who acted unjustly. Fighting those who start a fight with you is not injustice. Debunked.

verse 9:5- The classic by non-muslims to quote verse 5 as alleged proof of injustice but only make themselves look foolish when verse 4 before it and verse 6 afterwards and verse 13 clearly forbids muslims to fight the disbelievers who come in peace and that it was the disbelievers who started the war. Thus the context of verse 5 proves that it was the disbelievers who acted unjustly and waged war with the muslims who was now forced to fight back in defense. Fighting in self-defense is not injustice. Debunked.

verse 9:73- After demonstrating that verse 4 and 6 of the chapter shows that the disbelievers began an unjust war with the muslims, verse 73 states for the Prophet to strive against them in defense. Self-defense is not injustice. Debunked.

verse 9: 123- The word fight means to strugle and strive, which can be done without violence and as verse 2:256 of the Qur'an clealry states, compulsion is forbidden. Thus the context confirms that the struggle is a peaceful struggle. So there is no injustice. Debunked.

verse 4:56- Punishing people for unjust behavior is not injustice. For it is not unjust to not reward people who do not appreciate the one who granted them life and is responsible for all that is good to them. Debunked.

verse 2:223- A tilth is a land suitable of growth when a seed is planted. So comparing a woman to a tilth is not unjustice because just like a tilth, a woman's womb is suitable for growth as well once a man's sperm is implanted. Debunked.

verse 4:34- The sunnah of the Prophet is that the beating is a light tap, and a hit that leaves no pain or scars. So there is no injustice in ahit that leaves no pain or scars and issued as a last resort when all forms of counseling fails to correct disobedience to Allah. If your object is that it's wrong to tap someone lightly because the person still does not like it, then such an argument is flawed. For it's a punishment. It's not supposed to be liked. Debunked.

verse- 4:11- Men are protectors of women, making men obligated to work, while women do not. Then the men must use their wealth to support the women and children, while women do not. In short, men get more inheritance because their responsibility is to use their income to support the family while women do not have this obligation. They can get rich by collecting money from their husbands without working. So where's the injustice? Exactly. Debunked.

verse 65:4- Waiting for a woman to go through her menses before marriage is not injustice. Women during this time are in an emotional state so taking this into consideration is not injustice. Debunked.

verse 4:24- The verse staes that muslims can marry women prisoners of war. These are women who helped in war against the muslims. So where's the injustice in marrying a woman who once tried you as an enemy? Exactly? There is none. Debunked.

verse 4:3- The verse says that men are allowed to marry up to 4 women. We se that the command immediately follows the command "if you can not do justice with orpahns". Therefore, it shows that the purpose of multiple wives was to help aid thpse women who were the same status as orphans. So there is no injustice in taking woman who is poor and in need and manking her your wife to help put her on her feet and feel loved. Debunked.

As we see, another deluded non-muslim tries to single out injustice in the Qur'an and islam, only to have it utterly debunked and demonstrate that islam is a religion of peace and justice.

 

Response: Verse 2:286- Asking for help over the disbelievers is not injusice, because the actual help being asked for is not unjust. Debunked.


verse- 8:12- the verse states that terror will be cast in the hearts of the infidels. The reason is due to their attacks on muslims unjustly, forcing muslims to fight back in self-defense. Muslims are forbidden to fight those who wish for peace (8:61) proving that it was the infidels who acted unjustly. Fighting those who start a fight with you is not injustice. Debunked.

verse 9:5- The classic by non-muslims to quote verse 5 as alleged proof of injustice but only make themselves look foolish when verse 4 before it and verse 6 afterwards and verse 13 clearly forbids muslims to fight the disbelievers who come in peace and that it was the disbelievers who started the war. Thus the context of verse 5 proves that it was the disbelievers who acted unjustly and waged war with the muslims who was now forced to fight back in defense. Fighting in self-defense is not injustice. Debunked.

verse 9:73- After demonstrating that verse 4 and 6 of the chapter shows that the disbelievers began an unjust war with the muslims, verse 73 states for the Prophet to strive against them in defense. Self-defense is not injustice. Debunked.

verse 9: 123- The word fight means to strugle and strive, which can be done without violence and as verse 2:256 of the Qur'an clealry states, compulsion is forbidden. Thus the context confirms that the struggle is a peaceful struggle. So there is no injustice. Debunked.

verse 4:56- Punishing people for unjust behavior is not injustice. For it is not unjust to not reward people who do not appreciate the one who granted them life and is responsible for all that is good to them. Debunked.

verse 2:223- A tilth is a land suitable of growth when a seed is planted. So comparing a woman to a tilth is not unjustice because just like a tilth, a woman's womb is suitable for growth as well once a man's sperm is implanted. Debunked.

verse 4:34- The sunnah of the Prophet is that the beating is a light tap, and a hit that leaves no pain or scars. So there is no injustice in ahit that leaves no pain or scars and issued as a last resort when all forms of counseling fails to correct disobedience to Allah. If your object is that it's wrong to tap someone lightly because the person still does not like it, then such an argument is flawed. For it's a punishment. It's not supposed to be liked. Debunked.

verse- 4:11- Men are protectors of women, making men obligated to work, while women do not. Then the men must use their wealth to support the women and children, while women do not. In short, men get more inheritance because their responsibility is to use their income to support the family while women do not have this obligation. They can get rich by collecting money from their husbands without working. So where's the injustice? Exactly. Debunked.

verse 65:4- Waiting for a woman to go through her menses before marriage is not injustice. Women during this time are in an emotional state so taking this into consideration is not injustice. Debunked.

verse 4:24- The verse states that muslims can marry women prisoners of war. These are women who helped in war against the muslims. So where's the injustice in marrying a woman who once tried you as an enemy? Exactly? There is none. Debunked.

verse 4:3- The verse says that men are allowed to marry up to 4 women. We see that the command immediately follows the command "if you can not do justice with orpahns". Therefore, it shows that the purpose of multiple wives was to help aid those women who were the same status as orphans. So there is no injustice in taking more than one woman who is poor and in need and making her your wife to help put her on her feet and feel loved. Debunked.

As we see, another deluded non-muslim tries to single out injustice in the Qur'an and islam, only to have it utterly debunked and demonstrate that islam is a religion of peace and justice.

 

As we see, another Islamist taqiyya-steeped LIAR ludicrously pretending to have debunked the truth about Islam, as clearly revealed in its suras. HA HA. What a joke for this fool to come in here and act like he has debunked the Koran's own words. If you read through his lines, you will see nothing has been "debunked". Absolutely nothing at all.

For example. As always, Islamapologists (Ho hum) try to claim that all the war suras of the Koran are self-defense. Total nonsense. Sura 9:123 says > "Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you."

Read the words, objective Political Forum readers. It says "make war". It says "who dwell around you". IT doesn't say peacefully struggle (Fatihah is saying that). And making war on just people who dwell around you isn't self defense from someone attacking you.

Always be wary of Muslims talking about the Koran. They consistently LIE in hopes of getting people to accept their uncivilized, barbaric, savagery, because if they told the truth, everyone would say NO to it. Simple as that. Yawn ***

Sura 9:123 is just one example. All the phony debunks of Fatihah are the same. Utter laughingstock NONSENSE, and nothing more.

 

Sure it does.. the Koran is VERY clear.. and Muhammed states in the Koran that if anyone hurts an innocent pagan or infidel, he will be their enemy when they want to enter heaven.

It means that if you kill my dog and set fire to my house, I don't care what religion you profess.

 

"If you are in doubt concerning those of your wives who have ceased menstruating, know that their waiting period shall be three months. The same shall apply to those [of your wives] who have not yet menstruated."
- Quran 65:4, "Divorce," Dawood, p. 557

You obviously have NO idea what that means....

 

Response: Another failed rebuttal. The verse does not say to "make war", it says to fight the disbelievers. But even if we take your false interpolation and claim that it says to make war, it still proves nothing. For "make war" is not synonymous to "start war first". Wars can be made in self-defense. And when we read verse 13 of the same chapter, it clearly states that it was the disbelievers who attacked first, thus the muslims are to make war in self-defense.

Once again, another deluded non-muslim has their weal propagnda exploited and only helps to support the fact that islam is a peaceful and just religion.

 

Exactly, and when Muslims kill 270 million people, for 1400 years, and continue to kill them, and continue to force their insane/idiotic ideology (pretending to be a religion) on everyone around them, nobody cares what they call themselves or what looney guidebook they subscribe to.

 

Your "self-defense" defense has already been demolished in post # one-thirty-eight, where I showed that in sura 9:123, it says for Muslims to make war on those who dwell around you.

Islamists are the biggest pain in the ass to debate, because the truth being totally against them, they simply sit there and pretend that the truth isn't the truth, and then you just have to repeat.

So you prefer to be refuted twice rather than once. OK But if you persist after that, it will be so unreasonable, that I will have to conclude that it's not debate, but instead is harrassment, and will have to be reported.

Once again (for the last time) > Read the words, objective Political Forum readers. It says "make war". It says "who dwell around you". IT doesn't say peacefully struggle (Fatihah is saying that). And making war on just people who dwell around you, isn't self defense from someone attacking you.

You are an insult to Political Forum readers' intelligence.

 

What a totally ridiculous claim... Have you NEVER bothered with real history?

 

I have the same idea as what Wikipedia (WikiIslam) has. Here's what they (and millions of others) all say.

"Conclusion

"The Qur'an in verse 33:49 states that no 'Iddah is prescribed for a woman who has not had intimate contact with her husband, but goes on to stipulate the 'Iddah for pre-pubescent girls in verse 65:4, meaning: the holiest text of Islam supports marrying and having sex with prepubescent girls. This is definitive proof that the Qur'an endorses pedophilia, the most abominable of all sexual crimes." (Wikipedia/WikiIslam)

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Pedophilia_in_the_Qur'an

Don't bother with the invalidation blab. I know your talking point tactics all too well.

 

You are really too desperate, arn't you?

Make war on those who dwell around you that persecute you.. Its still defensive.

And fight after the holy days are passed.. is still defensive.. You fight back after the holy days.

 

Googling "270 million people killed by Islam", we get 822,000 results of websites (each one containing lots of people who agree with it), but all we really need refer to is this one (which itself has multiple sources) :

http://www.politicalislam.com/blog/tears-of-jihad

And if you're referring to this part of my post ("continue to force their insane/idiotic ideology [pretending to be a religion] on everyone around them), then sorry, but that statement is for objective readers, not Islamists. It could also be for those who are INFORMED about Islamization, not those who manage to get a ZERO on a Quiz of the subject. LOL.

 

Response: Amusing. After having your rebuttal utterly dismantled, you reply by stating the same weak logic, only to have it refuted again. As demonstrated, even if 9:123 does say to make war with those who dwell around you, your own words demonstrate that it does not say "start" the war. Thus you've done nothing but refute and expose yourself. Verse 13 of the same chapter states that it was the disbelievers who waged war FIRST. Thus the verse to make war with those around you would be in self-defense. Debunked as usual.

But of course, after being utterly debunked, we see the usual cries of a defeated non-muslim to run and tell, in an attempt to have a muslim concede to their weak argument. Sorry, but such actions only shines more light that your logic and reason is absurd and only strengthens the evidence to the fact that islam is a peaceful and just religion. Thanks for the assistance.

 

Are you for real ? You really believe that you could throw that pitch past me ? LOL. WHACK ! HOME RUN. Here's what the sura 9:123 says : "Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them. Know that God is with the righteous." - Quran 9:123, "Repentance," Dawood, p. 206

Doesn't say a thing about anybody persecuting anybody. It's just if you find any "infidels" around you, make war (kill) on them. And before you try your ubiquitous "Out of Context" defense, I've already looked up 9:122 and 9:124. They have nothing to do with self-defense or persecution. Generally suras are random in the subject matter and often suras sequentially, have little or no relation to each other.

You guys go through life insulting our collective intelligence, but I don't feel too insulted. I'm laughing too hard.

 

OK - report to moderators. You can make a point once, even twice. 3 times ? That's not informing us of your opinion. That's you trying to shove your idea down our throats, AKA HARRASSMENT.