There is no hope for Islam.

Yawn...

I actually didn't say any names, I mentioned their websites. You are naming names and books.

We are all open to opinions. Including you. Spenser. Wilders. The rest of the sheep herders and their cattle.

I do read books, yes. But I read what's worth reading, fairy tales were more my thing 10 years ago.

Well of course you don't see the bias, you fell for it and share the same bias. We are all open to opinions but they shouldn't be used for facts.

Okay, then post one quote. Did you read the book or not?

Salam

 

Profound-

And what he says, I knew - and anyone with common sense can see it too.

We HAVE to protect ourselves from Jihad, soft Jihad, and Sharia Law.
Wise up, we must, before all we have is regret.

Well written OP. My compliments to you, "onward James".

Rated 5 stars.

 

HA HA HA. That was about the worst (and pathetic) attempt at a retort I think I've ever seen. In fact, it was a confirmation of everything I said in Post # 75.

Again, you present no specific inaccuracies, no allegedly false statements, no names, NOTHING. (except more hot air > "bias", "fairy tales", HA HA HA. Thanks for the conformation, MR. RHETORIC.

 

They take Quran verses out of context too many times to count.

(Wait for it....)

Salam

 

HA HA HA. That was about the worst (and pathetic) attempt at a retort I think I've ever seen. In fact, it was a confirmation of everything I said in Post # . Again, you present no specific inaccuracies, no allegedly false statements, no names, NOTHING. (except more hot air > "bias", "fairy tales", HA HA HA. Thanks for the conformation, MR. RHETORIC.

And you want some quotes from Muslim Mafia ? OK. Here's a couple. From Chapter 11 (Co-Opting Congress) Page 183 :

"During a secret Muslim Brotherhood meeting he organized last decade, CAIR founder and former chair Omar Ahmad expressed the need to strenghten the influence with Congress. He argued for using Muslims as an entry point to pressure Congress and the decision makers in America to change US foreign policy in the Middle east and other policies." (Government Exhibit 016-0075; 3:04-CR-240-G; U.S. v HLF, et al.) (Government Exhibit 003-0085; 3:04-CR-240-G; U.S. v HLF, et al.) http://www.google.com/#hl=en&cp=63&...w.,cf.osb&fp=ba1579b3058242b6&biw=853&bih=498

"The same FBI wiretaps reveal that CAIR's other founder and current leader Nihad Awad, early on proposed sponsoring internships and fellowships as a vehicle for infiltrating government institutions." (Government Exhibit 016-0069; 3:04-CR-240-G; U.S. v HLF, et al.)

PS - CAIR leader Nihad Awad has a nickname given to him by counterterrorism agents. He's known as "Jihad" Awad.

 

Um, so what?

I mean,how is this any different from what AIPAC has already accomplished in America?

Besides you said you had quotes on CAIR advocating women beating, not lobbying... Lol you lose sleep because CAIR has a lobby group?

Salam

 

There is indeed hope. That hope is for it to be wiped off the face of the earth, along with every last form of fascism (violently, if necessary).

 

Oh yes. Love how peaceful everything un-Islamic is. Good contrast to the hatred Islam brings to the world.

Lol

I have an idea, let's bring peace to the world by slaughtering billions of women, children and men who happen to be Mozlem! That'll show em!

What a wonderful idea... God bless you.

Salam

 

A lobby group to do the dirty work of the Muslim Brotherhood > to destroy America, and set up an Islamic state. Didn't I already post the CAIR quotes on wife beating ? I thought I did. Yeah I did - the one about a tilth. What's the matter you lost your memory again ?

 

Hey, what ye sow, that ye shall reap.

 

Wait for what ? More rhetoric like this nonsense > "They take Quran verses out of context too many times to count." As usual - no facts, no names, no examples , NOTHING.

 

What do you mean by this lat sentence?

LOL Actually Islamists are a modern phenomenon. This is undeniable in that the modern movements have clearly modern agendas, modern interpretations and applications of Islam. Of all the new Islamic political groups in the world, the MOST modern, are the extremist terrorists.

Could you expand on this last part? I'm curious.

..?... Sorry this just didnt make sense. Which clerics are you referring to? And are you seriously asserting all Muslims are antisemitic?

Depends what you mean by "Islam" and "problem". I guess religion generally is a hindrance to man kinds true potential, so in that sense Islam is a problem. But outside of the faultiness that is all religion, I would argue Islam is not so much a problem as it is a religion which has problems; ones that can be fixed, much like Christianity or Judaism.

I disagree with almost every point the guy made. Would you like me to go through them? Its rather obvious to any observer that Islam is not the root, nor only cause of the problems that plague the modern middle east. Interesting still is that more Muslims live outside the ME than in it, so its necessary to look at the global impact of Islam to gauge its true character. Like any religious movement, it is diverse - perhaps the most diverse - with varied interpretations and applications. I do believe Islam can be reformed. Of course in the end I would prefer everyone drop religious creeds generally, but to the extent reform is needed in religions to individualize and disempower them as political entities (a near impossible task) I think Islam is just as susceptible as other creeds.

 

Completely and articulately correct as always.

 

The quotes taken out of textual and historical context are always the same, why list them?

 

I don't know what you're talking about. What quotes ? (and remember, the "out of context" defense has been dead for years - same with "interpretation" and invalidation) And by listing even a few, it might show that you have some basis for your argument. Up to now, OJLeb has shown nothing but rhetorical hot air. I doubt if he can find a single improper statement among my sources, and so far, he hasn't.

 

The typical ones referring to the code of war developed during the Muslims war with the Quraysh.

LOL! When did that happen? Actually "out of context" has ALWAYS been a valid argument - and not just for addressing the texts of Islam.

Why? You've quoted them repeatedly on other threads, why should I bother?

LOL But you make them all the time, hence my point - we should we bother constructing a situation you will inevitably create yourself in the near future?

 

1. Out of context is NONSENSE. Too many Islamapologists tried to use it when there was no out of context issue whatseoever. These boys who cried wolf ruined forever your chance to use the "out of context" defense, even when it has merit (which is practically never), Like when perpetual Islamist liar OJLeb tried to say Koran 4:34 mention of the words "beat them" was out of context. No they're not. The words are completely IN context of the sura they they're in and 4:33 and 4:35 have nothing to do with wife beating. The
out of context tactic is a phony ploy just like the commonly used "interpretation" tactic, and your often used invalidation tactic especially when you laughingly ry to use it on books you haven't even read.

2. Why should you bother ? LOL. because if you don't "bother" to provide a basis for your statement, then your statement is nothing but meaningless hot air, that's why.

3. Oh, so now we have a new charge. This time against me. Well OK, let's see you back that one up (I won't hold my breath). Name one single instance where my statements were improper or false. Answer may be inserted here >

 

No he is completely INcorrect. Islam is to blame, not any set of individuals. Islam is the Koran and that created terrorism and stealth jihad. The terrorists and stealth jihadists didn't create the Koran.

 

If you want to reform Islam you should rewrite the Quran.But that's impossible for Muslims.Therefore you can not reform Islam.

 

Impossible for many (maybe even most) Muslims yes, because they either foolishly believe it is the word of God, or they are too frightened of the ones who do think that. But some Muslims have advocated reforming Islam, and rewriting the Koran.

http://aifdemocracy.org/

http://islam-watch.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=49&Itemid=55

 

And Insha'Allah that's how it always will be.

الله اكبر

سلام

 

Give me a break... Jasser is a complete tool. He's about as much a Muslim as you are.

He represents nothing, except the dreams of right wingers to change the Quran. Keep dreaming.

الله اكبر
سلام

 

There they go again " as much as".

Muslims have communciated with me, mainly through my weblog and other forums... and the thing that is clear, even from those who are moderates, Muslim fear the supposed true believers, the Qur'an, and the clerics. Often they do not speak up because they could be ostrasized. Less in the North America, or perhaps not.

Political Science Professor Salim Mansur, and columnist, strongly advocates reform, progress and modernity.

Some Muslims brag what they have brought to the world. However, much was taken from India and Asia far ahead of the Muslim worlds. In ther past, Muslims destroyed the Alexandrine libraries, burned the scrolls. The only word that was important was the mythical interpretaions of Muhammad, years later.

There are educated people from the Middle East, and over the years many emigrated to the West for more education and, frankly, a better life. More freedom.

Islam, which is one of the problems for Muslims, the people of the Middle east as well, was an anchor that they have been chained to. Ask a few women. Ask the gay community. Ask the Jews of Israel who have been far more decent to the Arabs and Muslims from other nations living and voting in Israel. They are doing very well.

When Muslims return the lands and to the Christians, and others, who they evicted from Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia etc., and allow freedoms, Islam will never be accepted by those who are aware. Not even by the moderate Muslims. But "moderate" is an oxymoron. because either you believe wholeheartedly or you are not a Muslim.

Islam and the Muslims world will implode, as they have already indicated. Only the educated youth will change things, openly or with covert assistance.

 

There you go again... "as much as"...

Muslims have communciated with me, mainly through my weblog and other forums... and the thing that is clear, even from those who are moderates, Muslim fear the supposed true believers, the Qur'an, and the clerics. Often they do not speak up because they could be ostrasized. Less in the North America, or perhaps not.

Political Science Professor Salim Mansur, and columnist, strongly advocates reform, progress and modernity.

Some Muslims brag what they have brought to the world. However, much was taken from India and Asia far ahead of the Muslim worlds. In ther past, Muslims destroyed the Alexandrine libraries, burned the scrolls. The only word that was important was the mythical interpretaions of Muhammad, years later.

There are educated people from the Middle East, and over the years many emigrated to the West for more education and, frankly, a better life. More freedom.

Islam, which is one of the problems for Muslims, the people of the Middle east as well, was an anchor that they have been chained to. Ask a few women. Ask the gay community. Ask the Jews of Israel who have been far more decent to the Arabs and Muslims from other nations living and voting in Israel. They are doing very well.

When Muslims return the lands and to the Christians, and others, who they evicted from Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia etc., and allow freedoms, Islam will never be accepted by those who are aware. Not even by the moderate Muslims. But "moderate" is an oxymoron. because either you believe wholeheartedly or you are not a Muslim.

Islam and the Muslims world will implode, as they have already indicated. Only the educated youth will change things, openly or with covert assistance.

 

There you go again... "as much as"...

Muslims have communciated with me, mainly through my weblog and other forums... and the thing that is clear, even from those who are moderates, Muslim fear the supposed true believers, the Qur'an, and the clerics. Often they do not speak up because they could be ostrasized. Less in the North America, or perhaps not.

Political Science Professor Salim Mansur, and columnist, strongly advocates reform, progress and modernity. He has written "Delectable Lie" inwhich he discusses multiculturalism and the sadness of the lack of assimilation, and of course by many Muslims:

http://www.lfpress.com/comment/columnists/lorrie_goldstein/2011/08/31/18625391.html

Some Muslims brag what they have brought to the world. However, much was taken from India and Asia far ahead of the Muslim worlds. In ther past, Muslims destroyed the Alexandrine libraries, burned the scrolls. The only word that was important was the mythical interpretaions of Muhammad, years later.

There are educated people from the Middle East, and over the years many emigrated to the West for more education and, frankly, a better life. More freedom.

Islam, which is one of the problems for Muslims, the people of the Middle east as well, was an anchor that they have been chained to. Ask a few women. Ask the gay community. Ask the Jews of Israel who have been far more decent to the Arabs and Muslims from other nations living and voting in Israel. They are doing very well.

When Muslims return the lands and to the Christians, and others, who they evicted from Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia etc., and allow freedoms, Islam will never be accepted by those who are aware. Not even by the moderate Muslims. But "moderate" is an oxymoron. because either you believe wholeheartedly or you are not a Muslim.

Islam and the Muslims world will implode, as they have already indicated. Only the educated youth will change things, openly or with covert assistance.