Thousands rally against Israel in Istanbul

Israel signed it. The entire world say the GC apply.
Complaint denied.

Yup.
The Jews simply had a minority going, and than ethnic cleansed over 700.000 Arabs.

That's an over the top pro Israel lobby group
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/CAMERA

 

Yawn

cont'd https://www.juancole.com/2014/07/palestinian-thwarted-speaking.html

Back to strait propaganda sites. I'm not well just now so going back to sleep but puleese.

 

In fact, and again, there had never been a recognized/agreed on settlement after the Ottoman break up. There was no Sovereign/no official borders.

From "Occupied Territories" to "Disputed Territories," by Dore Gold

[.........]
No Previously-Recognized Sovereignty in the Territories

Israel entered the West Bank and Gaza Strip in the 1967 Six-Day War. Israeli legal experts traditionally resisted efforts to define the West Bank and Gaza Strip as "occupied" or falling under the main international treaties dealing with military occupation. Former Chief Justice of the Supreme Court Meir Shamgar wrote in the 1970s that there is No de jure applicability of the 1949 Fourth Geneva Convention regarding occupied territories to the case of the West Bank and Gaza Strip since the Convention "is based on the assumption that there had been a sovereign who was ousted and that he had been a legitimate sovereign."

In fact, prior to 1967, Jordan had occupied the West Bank and Egypt had occupied the Gaza Strip; their presence in those territories was the result of their illegal invasion in 1948, in defiance of the UN Security Council. Jordan's 1950 annexation of the West Bank was recognized only by Great Britain (excluding the annexation of Jerusalem) and Pakistan, and rejected by the vast majority of the international community, including the Arab states.

At Jordan's insistence, the 1949 Armistice Line, that constituted the Israeli-Jordanian boundary until 1967, was not a recognized international border but only a line separating armies. The Armistice Agreement specifically stated: "no provision of this Agreement shall in any way prejudice the rights, claims, and positions of either Party hereto in the peaceful settlement of the Palestine questions, the provisions of this Agreement being dictated exclusively by military considerations" (emphasis added) (Article II.2).

As noted above, in many other cases in recent history in which recognized international borders were crossed in armed conflicts and sovereign territory seized, the language of "occupation" was Not used -- even in clear-cut cases of aggression. Yet in the case of the West Bank and Gaza, where No internationally recognized sovereign control previously existed, the stigma of Israel as an "occupier" has gained currency.
[.........]​

Simple lie without documentation.
In fact, Many Arabs stayed, and became the 20% they are now, many left at the urging of Arab leaders before the war started.
And guess who was among those acknowledging that?

"The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny but, instead, THEY ABANDONED THEM, FORCED THEM TO EMIGRATE AND TO LEAVE THEIR HOMELAND, Imposed upon them a political and ideological blockade and Threw them into Prisons similar to the ghettos in which the Jews used to live in Eastern Europe, as if we were condemned to change places with them; they moved out of their ghettos and we occupied similar ones. The ARAB States succeeded in scattering the Palestinian people and in destroying their unity. They did Not Recognize them as a unified people until the States of the world did so, and this is Regrettable".

- by Abu Mazen, from the article titled: "What We Have Learned and What We Should Do", published in Falastin el Thawra, the official journal of the PLO, of Beirut, March 1976​

OUCHER!

Well then, if they are biased and wrong, the small excerpt is easily refuted.
http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=10
Ooops.

That didn't take long did it.
Been there, done that.
+

PS: I see alexa put up anti-semitic Leftist Revolutionary laugher Juan Cole:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Cole#Criticism
while complaining about (but not refuting) fact-checking/Media-correcting CAMERA.
http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=10
+

 

Absolutely irrelevant. The world has said that all the settlements in the WB/East Jerusalem are illegal, because the Geneva Conventions simply apply. Therefor all them ethnic cleansing Israeli civilians are international law trashing terrorists. They need to wamoos back to their own border like 30 years ago already.

But you Jews vote in again and again a government who goes forth expanding their Jew nation by ethnic cleansing more and more Arabs across the border. Them actions supported by the massive majority is why you lot are so hated.

​

You mean.. Arabs were like a 67% majority in the country, until you Jews ethnic cleansed well over 700.000 Arabs. That resulted only 20% are in Israel today.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/population-of-israel-palestine-1553-present

I already sourced camera is utterly pro Israeli. There are also plenty of things to read from them that it is indeed so on wikipedia. A site they tried to take over to write pro-Israel crap. Camera members got banned for having that strategy.

 

Looks like they're not going to be secular much longer.

 

I showed by "the world" is wrong. "the world" being just what the 57 Muslim nation UN voted that week.
You cannot rebut the truth of the matter, only post a what is essentially a popularity poll.

I am an American atheist who disagrees with Netanyahu's policies, but I know the history of the conflict quite well.
Obviously, far better than you.
'palestinians' are just more backwards Arabs the West justifiably pities/looks down on.

Dishonest representation.
We (almost) agree on 700,000 "refugees," but the link doesn't say "ethnically cleansed".
I posted Mazen who says different. You post you, and lie about what's in a link.
And I could post much, much, more demonstrating my position. Make my day!

Further, the Partition would have given Arabs a near 100% Arab State, and the Jews a majority Jewish state.
No one had to move an inch. No one.
Arabs refused and went to war for all of it. They lost.

Yes, and I showed they are quite credible, and have gotten hundreds/perhaps-thousands of corrections from MSM.
You could not refute the claim I posted in any case.
+

 

The entire world says Israel is wrong in the UN and in the UNSG, as well as the international court of justice, among plances. So that just settles the discussion.

You Jews still vote in governments to ethnic cleansing across the border to expand the Jew homeland. Hence the world condens you Jews for doing that. Got that Aaron? It has nothing to do with you being Jew. It's the actions you lot support.

Dishonest? The only thing that is dishonest is to bolster about that the Arab population is like 20%, when it used to be like 67% just a year before the Jew state started with destroying 100's of Arab towns and cities in Israel. But if you must:

A report from the military intelligence SHAI of the Haganah entitled "The emigration of Palestinian Arabs in the period 1/12/1947-1/6/1948," dated 30 June 1948, affirms that:

At least 55% of the total of the exodus was caused by our (Haganah/IDF) operations. To this figure, the report's compilers add the operations of the Irgun and Lehi, which "directly (caused) some 15%… of the emigration." A further 2% was attributed to explicit expulsion orders issued by Israeli troops, and 1% to their psychological warfare. This leads to a figure of 73% for departures caused directly by the Israelis. In addition, the report attributes 22% of the departures to "fears" and "a crisis of confidence" affecting the Palestinian population. As for Arab calls for flight, these were reckoned to be significant in only 5% of cases…

But the actual ethnic cleansing is this:

Later, a series of laws passed by the first Israeli government prevented them from returning to their homes, or claiming their property.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_exodus

You Jews made it the law, that a civilian who got ethnic cleansed of fled for his life or for what ever reason, may not return if it's not Jew. That's how the Jew ethnic cleansed Israel.

That is called gerrymandering. As I showed the Arab population was around 67% of Israel. So they should have had 67% of the country and the Jews the other scraps. No doubt you're fail to understand this rather simple thing.

 

Like I said, you post populatrity contests. I post, and can debate the truth of the matter.

Like I said, I'm an American Atheist. I don't like Netanyahu or Trump.

LIE.
Jews were a Majority in 1947 in what would become 'Israel'.
Arabs were a majority in Overall 'palestine.'
Speak English.
Arabs refused and went to war.
They're lucky they don't get cleansed from all of Palestink, as they would have done to the Jews.

"Even if Israel is NOT the cause of the Arab refugee problem, didn't they do anything to compensate those people?

As a goodwill gesture during the Lausanne negotiations in 1949, Israel offered to take back 100,000 Palestinian refugees
prior to any discussion of the refugee question.
The Arab states, who had Refused even to negotiate face-to-face with the Israelis, turned down the offer because it implicitly recognized Israel's existence.

Despite this, on Humanitarian grounds Israel has since the 1950's allowed more than 50,000 refugees to return to Israel under a family reunification program, and between 1967 and 1993 allowed a further 75,000 to return to the West Bank or Gaza. Since the beginning of the Oslo process Israel has allowed another 90,000 Palestinians to gain residence in PA-controlled territory.

Arabs who lost property in Israel are eligible to file for compensation from Israel's Custodian of Absentee Property. As of the end of 1993, a total of 14,692 claims had been filed, claims were settled with respect to more than 200,000 dunums of land, more than 10,000,000 NIS (New Israeli Sheckels) had been paid in compensation, and more than 54,000 dunums of Replacement Land had been given in compensation.

Israel has followed this generous policy despite the fact that not a single penny of compensation has ever been paid to any of the more than 500,000 Jewish refugees from Arab countries, who were forced by the Arab governments to abandon their homes, businesses and savings."

- Alexander Safian, PhD,​

Arabs were 67% of 'Palestine', Not the state that would become 'Israel.' 1947 Israel had a Jewish majority. The would-be Arab state would have been near 100% Arab.
Arabs went to war for the whole enchilada/72-virgins. They lost.

All of the Ottoman Empire was divided up arbitrarily.
ONLY Israel/the Partition was voted on/approved by the/your UN.!.

Israel, ergo, was more legitimate than ie, 'Iraq' or 'Jordan,' both given to Sunni/Saudi Hashemite Princes as spoils.
Jordan, 77% of the British Mandate (aka Palestine I), to rule over other 'palestinians.'
Leaving 23% of the Mandate to be divided up among Jews and yet more 'palestinians.' The Jews having been promised all of non-Jordan Palestine by the Brits. Unlike the Arabs, they were willing to compromise even after that promise was broken.
+

 

The UN, the UNSC nor the International court of Justice is a popularity show where you can place your votes.

My source says it is the "Demographics of Israel".
Do note.. you can spot that whopping +700.000 suddenly missing.

Irrelevant.
I proved the Jew ethnic cleansed well over 700.000 Arabs. And so this is just true:

Not according to my source.

You Jews still ethnic cleansed well over 700.000 Arab civilians... BY LAW! And you Jews are still at it, thieving land across your border to enlarge your Jew state by ethnic cleansing. Hence people are condemning you lot by your actions. Nobody likes thieving ethnic cleansers. Not even when they won a war.

 

It is when you have 57 Locked-and-Loaded Muslim votes.

Your source is wrong/mixing-and-matching words.
Here's two of TWENTY I can post.

Why the **** can't you research/Google this?
Is internet restricted in Palestink or Yemen?

BBC

This can be found on many, many, websites. Some with an even larger Jewish Majority/Over 500,000 in would-be Israel. Certainly it was larger a year later.
WTF is the matter with you?
Can't you search, or is this willful al-Ignorance.
al-Duh!

You just inadequately Spammed up the refuted 4-maps again before al-Jazeera's morning show interrupts your night]

DISHONESTLY, you still haven't shown 700,000 were "ethnically cleansed", only that they were 700,000 internally or externally displaced for any of several reasons.
Meanwhile, l posted Mazen.

I also showed many (100,000-200,000) were allowed to return despite you last al-goofy post, and despite Arabs intransigence in not even wanting to talk to Israel.

"I do not want to impugn anybody but only to help the refugees. The fact that there are these refugees is the Direct Consequence of the action of the Arab States in opposing Partition and the Jewish State. The Arab States agreed upon this policy unanimously and they must share in the solution of the problem"

Emil Ghoury, Secretary of the Arab Higher Committee, the Official leadership of the Palestinian Arabs, Beirut, Daily Telegraph, Sept 6, 1948

"The Arab States encouraged the Palestine Arabs to leave their homes temporarily in order to be out of the way of the Arab invasion armies."

-Falastin (Jordanian newspaper), February 19, 1949 (recently cited by Dereez)


"We will smash the country with our guns and obliterate every place the Jews seek shelter in. The Arabs should conduct their wives and children to safe areas until the fighting has died down."

- Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri Said quoted in Sir Am Nakbah by Nimr el Hawari, Nazareth, 1952


"The Arab governments told us: Get out so that we can get in. So we got out, but they did not get in."

- Jordan daily Ad Difaa, Sept 6, 1954

.​

 

Dayum !

 

Look in the mirror, you'll see a fictional character right there...

 

You should have taken some of my Econometric classes which use correlation out of a given data set to predict the future... Correlation creates expectations (ER). Expectations create "actions" (short-long). Actions turn into solid data sets directly correlated with the past data sets and will again be correlated with the future data sets via same path.

Oh because you proved support is NOT always automatically and necessarily biased... Yeah, right...

I didn't use the word automatically when I gave those two "real life" examples by the way.

So try be worth it because that was no reply just a dark sarcasm

Iran is our friend yet this ain't Iran, this is TURKIYE, regardless of some severe NATO interruptions and US hegemonic agendas that distorted its pure cause, it has been a parliamentary secular republic with over a 90% Sunni Muslim majority for decades. Show me one single example like it in history, you just can't... Turkish nation is a MIRACLE... It's like a Lotus in a murky pond.

The Jewish country is a BS story from bottom to top. I hate the idea stealing poor people's lands just because some sick book says it belongs to a group of "selected special" few whom were "supposedly" the offspring of a guy called Yakup who supposedly wrestled and won against "god" and so was given the name Israel. Isra means the "night walker" in Arabic by the way. So just because a guy picked a fight in the middle of a night with some imaginary being and "supposedly" won against it doesn't necessarily mean Jews today can grab those lands.

If Jews were to keep their identities only based on their solid "ethnicity" I'd be welcoming the idea of them having a state within a federation which gives other indigenous peoples of the same land like Arabs totally equal rights. But they instead emphasized their religious identity while stealing those lands by force from poor Arabs and ended up being that "lightning rod" for some decades. These ideals are all sick because they just can't say: "We were sent here by god (America) after they had us tamed and purified in Germany for few years to be able to tame and purify savages here who are unknowing modern state authority, undocumented, unregistered, uneducated, unlicensed, uncooperative, unwilling to contribute to 9-5 western corporatism, unthis, and unthat..."

That's why all we have is that old testament's, "היית: Kün fe yekûn: كن فيكون: BE", doctrine... Dude, you just can't say BE and the holy land comes into being right at your feet just like that because the blood rivers of innocent children say "screw it" !

 

May I make a correction there if you don't mind?

When you say Islamic, you refer to a "religious tendency" that has a lot to do with politics. Islamic means "Islami" in Persian, meaning; "being related to the religion called Islam". As an example; "Saudi Arabia is an Islamic society because they are being ruled by Islamic laws (aka Sharia law) "
A Muslim is the follower of religion called Islam. Secular is being UNRELATED to ""ANY"" religion.

So the right way to put is:

"Turkiye is the only state that is SECULAR, having Parliamentary democracy and "SUNNI MUSLIM MAJORITY" (over %90).

One more thing:
Azerbaijan is another "Turkish state" which again is secular and having Muslim majority over 90% but their Muslim majority is "SHIA" like Persians.

One small reminder for the forum: Iranians are not ARABS. They are mostly PERSIAN, which is a "race". Persians are a great nation with great history like Turks.

 

What's it to you?

 

The modern story of Israel - without the Jewish part - stands alone with its right for a state, it had all the legal aspects for creating an indipendant country including the outcomes of the wars, the religous/ethnic/ancient history part is simply unbreakable, the poor Arabs became poor for trying to make the Jews poor, it was us or them very simple.

 

Very true... Turkish Jews MOSTLY grow up with Muslim Turks and attend to exact same high schools, colleges, and universities with them, serve in military being are as much proud as any Turk because they mostly lost their "ethnic" identity but keeping "religious" identity here...

They refer Jews in here with a special word: "MUSEVI" which in time evolved in meaning to "gayr-i muslim" (non-muslim) and surprisingly, "just that". However, in reality Musevis (Turkish Jews) are both non-muslim and non-Turk. But since Ataturk's 1924 constitution put it so straight, even today great majority of Turks use the word Musevi to describe the person for only he/she being "non-muslim", and that he/she's a believer of Moses, not Jesus, not Mohammad. It's not used to describe their "ethnicity".

What's 1924 constitution got to do with it? Simple; here's the related article that describes the term "TURK" openly from 1924 constitution:



Now, if you ask me what it looks like today; here it is:

So... It is still almost the SAME today, meaning that if you're a citizen, you're a TURK. Does that sound familiar? From the US maybe?

Musevi is a kind way of saying YAHUDI (Jew in Turkish) because Turks are sensitive NOT to use the word Jew as Germans used it to belittle them back in 1940s. Turks are very interesting people, they do the same with Black Africans. They refer them "SIYAHI" (Black) and be very careful of using the word for "negro" which is "ZENCI" in Turkish. Calling a black person ZENCI in here is like calling a Jew a YAHUDI which is totally "ayip"(a shameful act, a bad manner) because Turks are well aware of what those articles up there from both constitutions refer to. That's why they are taught to know much better than HITLER's fascist youth when it comes to stuff like this. Many of Musevi Turkish citizens are MARRIED to Muslim Turkish citizens here. I can give at least 3 examples from close friends, and at least 2 from my own family.

Turkiye is lovable..!

 

Oh I thought it was his username... Funny tho...

We like Jews and Arabs of Israel too... Actually they are all great people and we're all related... Helva is too sweet, stay away from that, especially in these hottest days. Go with olive oiled light stuff like zeytinyagli dolma, zeytinyagli fasulye, barbunya, choban salad, get a big cold slice of Diyarbakir watermelon and a nice piece of white cheese next to it... You'll feel like stepping in heaven... That's lunch. Call me in the evening I'll take you to a place with bunch of mezes with original Turkish drink called raki. You'll beg for more after you see the meat but you won't get it...

BTW; I know an extremist sick radical bastard who sent special forces to the flotilla to take down the unarmed innocent people on board, including an 18 year old American citizen and his name was NOT Erdogan.

Somewhat... Why don't you just focus a little more? Maybe you start asking right questions and maybe then it won't appear that cryptic at all?
Esoteric is my middle name

 

I dont even care what the meaning of Goody's racist remarks and insults is. And this "other Turkey" is an illusion. Erdogan is backed by a majority of the Turks. Most Turks share his views, wanna crush the rests of Kemalism and turn Turkey into a Islmist theocracy, with death penalty, torutre rugular wars against the "infidels", slaves and so on. This illusion of "there is another Turkey", one that want a peaceful coexistence with neighbours, Christians or other minorities is shared by so many. There are armies of German left-wing people here who have share this idea.

For that I see the positive effect of Erdogan, he simply leaves no more room for illusions. He does no longer stuck to his lies of friendship and partnership. And that is something positive. And there cannot be any doubt that a majority loves him just for that. Jihad instead of peace. Death panlty, arrest of journalists, and so on.

 

Well written!

 

What remarks and insults?

What "other Turkiye" ?There's only ONE Turkiye. Maybe "the other one" is the one the HITLER YOUTH has created in their sick fascist minds?

Ohohoooo.... Really? Well I respect to your opinion. If that's what you think, nobody can change it. But in my opinion, HITLER'S YOUTH is definitely sick. Tho I show respect to their ""MANDA-LEFT"" doctrine. That doctrine is developed for low IQ stupidos who generally lack vision to be able to distinct state narratives from what they see. This is genetic actually and the reason behind such disgusting mutation is nothing but inheritance. If their ancestors weren't morons they wouldn't have followed a fascist bastard called HITLER and wouldn't have accepted such a sick rule, and millions of people wouldn't have been killed, or displaced today. So, it's a proven fact that HITLER's YOUTH was 100% fcktard !

Having put that straight, now I have to tell you that we all need to start worrying about the offspring, who may possibly be in charge of things in Germany today. This is important because there's a Turkish saying goes; "Balik bastan kokar" which can be translated into English as; "Sh.t rolls down hill". When we take a look at the top in Germany we literally see the sh.t coming down from top that hill because, just take a look at how the average Hans, a mutated member of that offspring, takes a parallel stance with their state narrative of the MANDA-LEFT doctrine of "vers. 2017 National Socialism" and puke it out with their eyes shut... hahah... So the sick top rolls the sh.t down the hill and guess what? It hits the Hans right in the face. Thanks god as a TURKISH CITIZEN and a TURK, I don't follow and spread Turkish state narrative here and there like a sick HITLER YOUTH's genetically mutated offspring does... Why? Because TURKS are superior? No, because we're smart enough not being biased (OK @Pisa come along you kitty cat) towards what we "don't support" like the Hans does... Because we know Germany got NO DEMOCRACY at all but FASCIST HITLER REGIME:

The only illusion is the one YOU have and that is HITLER REGIME ended in 1945. That's maybe the funniest illusion because he's still in power today in Germany and there are so many people contributing this illusion.

Where are they? Why that """ARMY""" do not march to Berlin and end the HITLER regime for real? hahah...

True that... No more western illusions, no more Kopenhagen criteria that handcuffs Turkiye from behind... The dream of controlling Asia Minor has come to an end. Thanks RUSSIA.

Your lips move but I can't hear what you sayin...

Like I said, "sh.t rolls down top of the hill". Hitler's Youth at the top freak out because Turkiye is now out of their control, so they develop a narrative, that even the sickest minds would be like wtf? : "Erdogan is Jihadist"... That point on the average Hans becomes an average New Guinean parrot, repeating it several times a day. Simple as that... Lol...

Take it easy Glucko...

 

Ha, it is up to you to list the retaliation "crimes" of the Pals, then we could discuss that, but maybe there isn't anything of substance to even mention.

 

Let me ask you something. Do you think that "modern" states have a right to exclude or give second class citizenship to people based on ethnicity or religion?

 

Well you know I'm Jewish so,
We Might Be Cousins?

Why so mean?


Edit On -
I read your uploads since the reply above.
Even gave one a "like".
Thank you for your uploads after this one

 

Thanks for the corrections and clarifications for which I am very grateful and don't mind at all. I'm always willing to learn from individuals better informed than I when it comes to any issue.
I just finished reading a book called "Lords of the Horizons" by Jason Goodwin about the Ottomans as well as a series of fiction books about a Turkish detective. Unfortunately, I can't immediately find the fictional books or remember the authors name.
At any rate, very few people realize the wealth of Turkish history and the number of Empires that have made impressions in Anatolia.
Thanks