To be consistant, shouldn't "pro-lifers" call for retroactive prosecution of women...

Pro-aborts want abortion legal. They do not want protections in place for the unborn. They believe the woman should own their bodies and get to decide.

What we have are people who might even believe that abortion is immoral...but don't care enough to stand on their moral convictions. They look away...just like the Germans did when they marched the Jews into the ovens. Its immoral...but I am not gonna rock the boat.

Why do you bring men into the equation. Abortion is all about the woman...and her choice. She got herself pregnant and gets to decide the outcome. What does the father have anything to do with this based on the pro-aborts position?

There are multiple rationales...you better believe it. The position says many different things. Its human...not human...the woman has choice...no she doesn't...22 weeks....18 weeks....24 weeks...viability...late term abortion yes...no? The position is hypocritical...not logical.

This issue is not complexed. You either are for protecting the life in the womb or you are not.

 

You of course realise that as much as you want there to be a link between the Nazi's and pro-choicers that there is none .. there is a better case for pro-lifers being nazi's due to there zealous pursuit of controlling other born people placing stimgas upon them just as the nazi's did with people who didn't meet there ideals, by trying to enforce laws that lower the standing of a portion of the population based only on their warped dogma.

The nazi's waged genocide on particular types of people, abortion has no such restriction .. it is not aimed directly at a specific ethnic, religious, national or political group but encompasses any and all of these, it is not tailor made to enable one set of people to rule over another .. where as the pro-life position of enforcing their religious morality onto others is very much trying to enable one set of people to rule over another.
The pro-life position is inherently one of control, just like the nazi's

 

RRRrrrright, because Nazis were so interested in SAVING lives not taking them, PULEASE!

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RRRrrrright, because Nazis were so interested in SAVING lives not taking them, PULEASE!

 

You can change the word nazi to almost any other country or people of that country and it fits .. so instead of just producing your usual BS why don't you prove what I have said wrong.

RRRrrrright, because (Americans, British, Russian etc - delete as required) were so interested in SAVING lives not taking them, PULEASE!

Can you deny that the nazi's placed restrictions on certain others .. just as the pro-lifers want to do with woman
Can you deny that the nazi's demeaned certain others .. just as pro-lifers do with woman who want sex without pregnancy
Can you deny that the nazi's brought in laws in order to control certain others .. just as pro-lifers want to do.

Deny it all you like, but sticking your fingers in your ears and singing la la la doesn't make it any less true.

 

Why don't you instead get on topic and explain why abortion is such a grand and marvelous practice worth defending????

 

There are a lot of similarities...

VIOLENCE
Abortion doctor Leroy Carhart:
The fetus, in many cases, dies just as a human adult or child would: It bleeds to death as it is torn from limb from limb. The fetus can be alive at the beginning of the dismemberment process and can survive for a time while its limbs are being torn off. Dr. Carhart agreed that “[w]hen you pull out a piece of the fetus, let’s say, an arm or a leg and remove that, at the time just prior to removal of the portion of the fetus…the fetus [is] alive.” Dr. Carhart has observed fetal heartbeat via ultrasound with “extensive parts of the fetus removed,” and testified that mere dismemberment of a limb does not always cause death because he knows of a physician who removed the arm of a fetus only to have the fetus go on to be born “as a living child with one arm.” Supreme Court case of Stenberg v. Carhart

AND WHAT DID IT FEEL LIKE TO SIT IN AN OVEN...AS THE TEMPERATURE CLIMBED? Yes they sent the children, the sick, the weak and aged....all sent to the gas chambers to solve what? Problems...just like some here think abortion solves the same problems.
It is the same kind of inhumanity and violence...only the unborn does not know its coming. And then many people who marched into those ovens didn't know either. And the world watched and the world looked away."

I loved what this blogger has to say about the similarities...that might not be so obvious.

"At the root of both scourges is a particular strain of evil, the most virulent that the devil possesses. It is the kind of evil that works to take away the humanity of human beings. It whispers in the ears of one group of people that a certain other group of people are something less than human, less worthy of life because of race or religion or physical ability or age. And once this is accomplished, once a group of people have been thoroughly dehumanized in the mind of their society, evil can run wild while the populace yawns." JENNIFER FULWILER

http://www.conversiondiary.com/2008/11/abortion-and-holocaust-comparisons.html


This is what the Nazis did...and what the pro-abort movement tries to do today.

More.....

Nazis and pro-aborts targeted for death....those humans that tests show they might
have a physical or mental handicap. Hitler killed them and so do we.

Dehumanize humans. The Nazis did this as the pro-aborts do today. Do away with humans with no moral conscience or consequence. Look at the campaigns that the pro-abortion movement uses. Look at the terms used....."procedure" for killing (what pro-abort here uses the word kill?) "blob" for the human life..."product of conception."
The pro-aborts cry...."The life in the womb is not human, it's not a person !!!". Ever heard of begging the question...many do that here. The pro-abort must show in any way they can that the unborns are not human. They do this in order to justify their position. However instead of proving this with arguments and facts....they simply assume it within the context of their rhetoric. Hmmmm...gonna start a thread on this one.

The NAZI's used several methods of ELIMINATING their 'non-humans'. Gas, torture, injection, etc. The pro-aborts today as in the past use many different methods..... Saline injection, suction, brain suction, dismembering. And the way they dispose of the murdered person.....shallow graves, pits, garbage dumpsters...oh and cremation.

The similarities are endless......endless. Of course what pro-abort here would admit to this...I sure would not want to be aligned with what the Nazis did. But people can change positions...and come to the truth. Jennifer Fulwiler, Bernard Nathanson....Norma McCorvey....all changed their positions. I did as well. The truth has to be exposed..and the pro-abortion position is not the truth...they hide the truth.

 

Why don't you get off your high horse and stop pretending you can tell other people what to do, and as usual you jump straight to the wrong conclusion (because it fits your mind set), I am defending the indelible right of the individual while you are advocating removing that right.
I would defend that right whether it be for abortion, gun control or anything else that a minority want to enforce control over .. which is exactly what you want to do.

It amazes me that when a pro-lifer cannot (or will not) respond they jump onto the bandwagon of accusing others of going off topic.

 

but you are already aligned with what the nazi's did, your zealous need to control others, your zealous need to demean others is ample evidence enough and your pro-life stance is nothing more than trying to hide the truth of its wanton power seeking through any means possible.

 

That is not "pro-abortion" because all of those things CAN be done without increasing or even maintaining the current rate of abortion

Wha

Godwin's law - when there is no other argument drag Nazi Germany into it

Err because if all pregnancies were WANTED pregnancies then abortion would be all but unknown - but let us reverse this and ask - why do you want to absolve men of any responsibility??

And once again like the dead rat brought in by the cat there is this reversion to late termination of pregnancy

 

He asked a question worth asking. Why do you support and defend abortion? Why is it so grande?

You say you are defending the rights of women but yet you take them away. What do you call that? Denying women choice and the right to choose......why do you do this?

 

If you want abortion legal and do not protections in place to save lives...this is not pro-life. You are willing for whatever reasons to look away whether or not you would ever get an abortion or not. What is the opposite of pro-life? What is the opposite of anti-abortion, which I am? It is pro-death, pro-abortion. If we tool a nationwide vote and there were two lines....pro-choice (which condons the rights to women to kill) or anti-choice abortion....which would you stand in?
The lines that protects the life in the womb...or the one that kills it?
So don't tell me you are pro-life...that you are not pro-abortion. You are pro-abortion.

You pro-aborts always bring...Godwin up. Why? If you can't logically see the similarities between these world views than..that just proves our point. There are similarities....and YOU JUST DENY THEM BECAUSE THEY MAKE YOUR WORLDVIEW AND POSITION LOOK BAD. Hey I don't blame you...so keep comin up with more excuses. But anyone who can read and think can see the similarities.

Why do I absolve men? Oh I DO NOT. I play devils advocate to show how ridiculous and cold your position is. I very much feel the father should have a say. It's your side that tossed his rights out. Well...until you want money. You probably feel he should pay for the abortion...or pay for the child should the mom want to have it.
So I ask you.....WHAT ABOUT THE RIGHTS OF THE FATHER? What if he just wants to walk away from his kids? newly born child? Should men have to pay childsupport if they decide they don't want the kids? Remember you give the woman total rights to the children...it was her body, her choice...and I think you said that in the womb they are part of the woman.

What say you?

 

And the pro-abort excuses keep coming. No one even addressed to show me why the similarities I posted between the pro-abort position and what the Nazis did in Germany don't hold water.

Why?

 

Nobody here is pro-abort and nobody here is a Nazi.

There is really nothing to discuss unless you want to discuss your inability to have a discussion without dragging a Reductio Ad Hitlerum fallacy into the discussion.

 

Because you've never addressed why we should take you seriously, given your positions are identical to those of PETA. You know, the ones claiming we dehumanize the cows and rip them limb from limb, all for our sick selfish convenience.

Now me, I don't pay attention to the either the PETA cranks or the pro-life cranks (it's nearly impossible to tell the difference). I'm consistent that way. When some whackaloon babbles that meat/abortion is murder, I smile and walk away. There's no point in talking with crazy people.

 

The two posts above yours showed why your worn out nazi comparison doesn't hold water...or truth.


Unlike you they responded to a post.

 

It is still an invocation of Godwin's law

 

Which is what the opposition uses when they cannot dispte the assertion with facts.

 

Do not discuss each other, focus on topic.

Thanks
Shangrila
Site Moderator

 

Its already been disputed on numerous occasions and debunked by people far better placed than those who frequent this forum.

Here is a nice little article from a Christian site

http://www.christiancentury.org/article/2011-11/popular-analogy-doesnt-always-work

or another

http://commonwealmagazine.org/flawed-analogy-0

pretty easy to see that this analogy only works for the more radical elements of the pro-life position.

 

Well no wonder. Very liberal Christian site....they do not stand on the Word...they have adopted the views of society...such as Homosexuality not being a sin.

And the second site as well...from a liberal Christian POV
"Many people, like Cathleen Kaveny, fight to show that abortion is not genocide. They do this by comparing abortion to the Holocaust. She believes that the treatment of the unborn baby is not equivalent that the Nazi’s did to the Jews. A fetus is not a human yet, and so it it not being treated like Jews; therefore abortion is not a form of genocide."

She says the fetus is not human....so she ignores the very Word of God she professes to believe in. She is a heretic.

 

Saying the fetus is not A human is quite different from saying it is not human. Learn to distinguish between adjectives and nouns. IMO, this is the kind of judgement we are warned about. It is not judging so that we may avoid doing a wrong action, it is mean-spirited judgement of whether others are 'sufficiently' Christian.

 

Oh I know the difference and it does not matter in either sense. The sperm is human....the egg is human....when these two human components meet...a new life starts. That life can't be anything other than human.

I can judge whether or not I think someone is believing the Word. Its not about me thinking they are Christian enough...its about Gods standards, not mine. And I would never attempt to judge someones heart...only God can do that.
The Word says we can judge and God put people in positions to judge. Parents judge, lawyers, jurors, doctors, pastors, fireman,...every member of society judges.

 

I thought only Pro-choicers brought religion to the ABORTION forum......guess I was mistaken, I shouldn't have believed the post by an Anti-Choicer who claimed ONLY Pro-Choicers brought religion to the wrong forum.

 

The sperm is human (adjective), and the egg is human (adjective), since neither is A human (noun). And when they meet....they're still just human (adjective).

 

Yeah I know that is what you usually try, I am telling you it aint workin....

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The ignorance the pro aborts display is ASTOUNDING. Some of Bush's childrenb left behind apparently.

When the sperm and egg meet and fertilization takes place both the sperm and egg cease to exist and a new organism is formed. that new organism is a human being.