It is a big deal. They are our ally and they want BUY military technology from us. Not only does this accomplish a strategic goal, but it helps our economy. I can't believe how wimpy this country has become. We're letting an impoverished and underdeveloped nation with a second-rate military intimidate us. Is this Bizzaro World?
We already sold Taiwan military technology.....that's why they already have a fleet of F16A/Bs. And now we are selling them upgrade outfits instead of selling them the latest, F16s we have. We could certainly make more money off of selling them the latest/greatest F16s or by selling them F22's or B2's.....tons of money. You certainly seem to place a lot of trust in Taiwan. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't even sell our latest/greatest hardware to Israel.
Really? 300 million Americans would just vanish? Our vast holdings of natural resources would just vanish? Our technological knowledge would just vanish? What, exactly, do you think would vanish aside from our government's ability to subsidize bread and circuses? Indeed, and that would hurt China a great deal more than it would hurt us. China and India are POOR. They are not consumer societies. Their economic development is entirely dependent upon foreign demand for cheap labor. They need us far more they we need them. They allow us to have cheap material niceties, we allow them to rise out of poverty.
That's definitely worth something, and I've always felt that their stockpiling of precious metals was a smart strategic move, but it cannot tide their entire economy over.
Uh, exactly my point. We're denying them much needed military technology and hardware. We're not selling them the "latest and greatest", as our best fighter jets are the F-22 Raptors. The F-16 is a fourth generation fighter that we can easily afford to part with, especially when its an ally in a strategically critical position.
Wow. Not even the Taiwanese embassador the the U.S. is upset as you about this. You should be a lobbyist for Lockheed Martin.....
I think it is important for us to understand that the Taiwanese can't be trusted any more because their military and political system have been thoroughly infiltrated by the Chinese Communist Party. Not to mention the Taiwanese economy's connection to that of the PRC.
I see. Well, I'm glad that Taiwan has Lockheed Martin lobbyists and congressmen who represent the military industrial complex and the altruistic posters here on PoliticalForum.com to speak for them and convey their emotions.
Irrelevant commentary meant to diminish the points I made. And you're darn right I'm upset. This was a massive strategic blunder, politically and militarily. In my dreams.
If that were the reason, then I wouldn't be upset at all. If it's because we're kowtowing to the Chinese, then that makes me really mad.
Leffe wrote: You've only yourself to blame, for putting your president in this uncomfortable position. Granny says we didn't do it... ... it's dem spend-happy lefty lib'ral politicians is who done it.
It doesn't matter - they own your debt and can sell it to whom they like. They can sell it to Iran, Chavez, Russia etc... They can stop lending you money too. From this perspective, they are in a strong position to do to you what you've done to others in the past, which is to dictate foreign policy. The tables have simply turned in this regard.
Are you familiar with the expression "jumping the shark?" The paper China holds is worthless. Do you understand? Worthless. China can be dealt with easily by using Chinese rules.
So what? We could simply repudiate the debt, problem solved. What's more, their entire economy is dependent upon our domestic demand for cheap labor and goods. Without them, we can't fund an already excessively large government and we can't buy a bunch of cheap, but ultimately useless, crap. Without us, they can't rise out of abject poverty. Do you not see who is in a better position? Oh well. We'd still have a wealth of natural resources and human capital, as well as the mightiest military on the planet. If all else failed, we could just print more dollars and lend it to ourselves, which is what we have already started doing. What would they have? Billions of impoverished citizens with no jobs and no prospect for advancement and a bunch of debauched pieces of paper sitting in their banks. Yea, sounds like China is in a great position! You simply do not understand how much leverage we have over them. Their economic development is entirely dependent upon our demand for cheap labor and goods. Without us, THEY HAVE NOTHING.
No I'm not. So what you're saying is that it's basically throwing your money away by lending to the USA?
You have less leverage than you think. The global economy is larger than the USA. Asia at this stage is leading the tech, in both development and manufacture. The US people will not accept not being able to by Asian goods, it would take the USA decades to catch up and even then, US goods would be far far more expensive than Asian. Fine if you want to return the dark ages, but US citizens would simply not accept it. You are a consumer economy, fair enough the Chinese are a manufacturing economy, we all know how it works, but writing this off as you holding all the cards is nonesense.
Well, it's kind of hard to top Bill Clinton selling our military secrets to China. Bush never did that.
That's what the dinosaurs thought until the meteor hit. You have no idea what's going on over here. History is both a set of forces and a series of processes. America is being subjected to those forces right now, and is undergoing those processes. What is will not be. What will be cannot now be discerned. But we can be sure of one thing. We are transitioning from one epoch to another. Let me give you an historical analogy. After repeated defeats in the Opium Wars the Qing Dynasty suffered from great factionalism. Some factions wanted to adopt Western ways just like the Meiji in Japan after the visit by the Black Ships. Other factions held that following traditional practices would maintain the Middle Kingdom. The Traditionalists won. Qing Dynasty China's people suffered ever greater traumas. Finally the 1911 Revolution occurred. But Sun Yatsen wasn't able to consolidate power. Power devolved among warlords and the nation's unity was sundered. Chiang Kai Shek arose with the KMT banner. Subsequently, Mao Zedong arose with the CCP banner. The nation was riven by civil war. Invasions. More civil war. The Korean War. The Great Leap Forward failed. Famine. Tens of millions dying. Let a Thousand Flowers Bloom...came to nothing. The Cultural Revolution which was an intra-party civil war. Victory by Deng Xioaping and the Capitalist Roaders. After unimaginable suffering China stood up and reasserted itself. But the bonds issued by the Qing Dynasty and later by the KMT became worthless. But the Chinese had come up with a new form of social organization based on Leninism coupled with a predatory mercantilist version of capitalism that forced the world to accept it. Something new is coming. Who knows what it might be. Perhaps somthing wicked this way walks.
