UK Muslim Couple Sentenced to Life for Honor Murder of Daughter

A marriage in Islam is not legitimate unless BOTH the man and woman give consent. So yes, a woman has a choice.

What?

Not quite actually. A woman has the right to divorce her husband in Islam. And when a man divorces his wife, he must give her compensation.

Its as if you don't even think the Quran actually exists lol

No, what Jews do defines that individual or group, not the entire Jewish world.

 

I claimed many Muslims and for decent people 6% of a group supporting such a repugnant crime is many. Many orders of magnitude separate this to that of the general population.

No, I will not become embroiled in a stupid discussion about interpretations of ancient religious texts and what is true Islam, since as I have pointed out, Islam is defined first and foremost by practice not by such texts. It is up to believers themselves to decide how they want to interpret the texts they treasure and practice their belief. The evidence that it is an Islamic practice (which doesn’t rule out other cultures) is the fact of where it occurs, which is overwhelmingly in Islamic cultures. All the centuries and work that Muslim religious scholars have devoted to analysing and interpreting these texts has not helped stop the practice.

It is noteworthy that rather than interesting yourself in removing this stain from your culture you try to disown it with reference to ancient religious texts. Honour killings have been around since before Islam but whereas other cultures have made it history it is still alive and well in Islamic cultures. Furthermore the recent resurgence of religion in Islamic cultures has been paralleled by an increase in honour killings. Whereever it is practiced in Islamic communities Islam is used to defend it. Contrast this to pedophilia among Catholic priests where nobody has tried to defend it on the basis of Christianity.

6% is an irrelevant minority in many less conspicuous matters however when it comes to killing your own children or sisters or coercing your sons to kill them then it is a different matter altogether and 6% is far from irrelevant. Another example: everything on Earth, everything ever observed with all of our instruments, all normal matter - adds up to less than 5% of the Universe, irrelevant minority?

Obviously refers to the example.

No, you can reads that for yourself, I was merely trying to make it easier for you to understand. Maybe I should have a better example of a repugnant crime in Islam like burning Qurans?

 

The word you used was "a good portion", remember?

In other words, you can't prove Islam condones "honour killings".

No, it is not. The religious texts of Islam is what defines Islam.

Yet you cannot provide the texts where the interoretation comes from.

There is no evidence

It occurs in one part of the world, mainly. The middle east. The majority of Muslims on this earth are not middle Eastern.

There is no "Islamic culture" like how you try defining it.

Which more likely means it did not come from any Islamic texts.

What?

Yes.

Nonsense, as there is no Islamic culture. And it is not unique to only Muslims.

Lol

Based on what exactly?

By people such as yourself, ironically enough.

And yet it still happens.

Not really. It is an invisible minority. There are many deranged beliefs on earth.

Do you realize what you are attempting to compare here.?

Bottom line is you cannot provide Islamic sources to prove "honour killings" are a religious (Islamic) practice.

 

Oj not to be obtuse but why is it so important to you to defend this barbaric practise as not being a real/religious muslim one? Why not just admit that it is a cultural one in muslim countries which many muslims claim to be permitted by their religion and condemn it. The same applies to any barbaric practise in any culture.

Instead of arguing semantics with Tyerik, it would be more sensible to own this practise as one specific to your religion and fight it for all you are worth.

 

Prove it. While you are at it please explain why conversion is possible.

 

That was with reference to other polls where you yourself came with a figure of around 25% which as far as I’m concerned is a good proportion in such a matter.

There’s no proof in religious matters.

Only for Muslims themselves, non Muslims define Islam from the beliefs and practices of those declaring themselves Muslims. My kids know what Muslims are without ever having read the Quran or the Sunnah. That definition will be more refined with time but not by referring to religious texts.

As I stated it is not for me as a non Muslim to provide the interpretation but perhaps you should ask those scholars at Al Azhar or your fellow believers in the Jordanian parliament or any others supporting the practice?

Lets be clear, 91% percent of honor killing around the world are committed by Muslims. This is no coincidence since :
"A manual of Islamic law certified as a reliable guide to Sunni orthodoxy by Al-Azhar University, the most respected authority in Sunni Islam, says that "retaliation is obligatory against anyone who kills a human being purely intentionally and without right." However, "not subject to retaliation" is "a father or mother (or their fathers or mothers) for killing their offspring, or offspring's offspring." ('Umdat al-Salik o1.1-2). In other words, someone who kills his child incurs no legal penalty under Islamic law.
"The Palestinian Authority gives pardons or suspended sentences for honor murders. Iraqi women have asked for tougher sentences for Islamic honor murderers, who get off lightly now. Syria in 2009 scrapped a law limiting the length of sentences for honor killings, but "the new law says a man can still benefit from extenuating circumstances in crimes of passion or honour 'provided he serves a prison term of no less than two years in the case of killing.'" And in 2003 the Jordanian Parliament voted down on Islamic grounds a provision designed to stiffen penalties for honor killings. Al-Jazeera reported that "Islamists and conservatives said the laws violated religious traditions and would destroy families and values.”

source

91% is evidence!

No, most cases are from Asia not the Middle East and the majority of Muslims are Asians.

Then explain why 91% of honour killings happen to Muslims from Bangladesh to Turkey and from Afghanistan to Saudi, and yet Muslims make up less than a quarter of the global population.

It doesn’t have to come directly from religious texts but from the consequences of how these texts are interpretated. For example promoting women as possessions in a highly patriarchal system. Also by omission. We agree that honour killings predate Islam so if there are no texts which specifically condemn the practice then this is a serious omission to the establishment of a moral code. The most obvious conclusion would be that Islam had to be careful about rocking the boat too much so it avoided certain issues nevertheless by doing so it is to blame by omission.

Beyond your comprehension is it?

So what are all these Islamic culture centers? Here read all about your Islamic culture: Islamic Culture
A practice doesn’t have to be unique to a particular culture for it to be part of that culture, in fact many practices are part of different cultures to varying degrees.

Its no laughing matter.

You tell me, I’m only pointing out an apparent correlation.

I think you have a lot more in common with Jordanian Islamist parliamentarians and religious scholars in Al Azhar than I do!

No, I think there’s been set a stopper for it, if nothing else to prevent bankruptcy!

Yes there are many deranged beliefs but when they are held and fostered by religious authorities like Al Azhar and MPs etc. belonging to the one and same faith then considering them invisible is burying your head in the sand.

You mean whether or not a quantity is many depends on what is being measured and the eyes of the observer?

Bottom line is that attitudes like yours hinder humanitarian development.and keep the Islamic world in the Middle Ages.

 

Welcome to Multicultural Britain the mass immigration from culturally inferior nations sure is a blessing!

 

Pakistani parents murdered their 17-year-old daughter, Shafilea with plastic bag in 2003. Justice Roderick Evans sentenced Iftikhar, 52, and Farzana Ahmed, 49, to life in prison. As per the reports, in Britain, more than 25 women have been killed in past decade.

 

What part of tribal area did you not get. Perhaps it might be better for you to learn the definition of those simple words before you set out to febate what you have no knowledge of.

I'm far better aware of the problem than you will probably ever be. Your ignorance is up for full display so there's no reason why I should believe you have any insight to the problem.

Oh sure. While you can sit and insult Muslims and Islam all you want. More double standards?

Yes. In the West people have to disown religious texts of the Testaments to actually be able to follow it without appearing barbarians.

So quit lying about it. And as I said about the gay movement in US, your religion has much worse problems.

It gives credence to the theory that it is a cultural / religious problem not a religious one. When we talk about issues in Europe, do you say that those are problems with Christianity simply because those nations tend to be Christian ones?

Religion does not make it male dominated. It recognizes that both man and woman are equal yet have their separate roles.Tell me. Aren't men physically superior to women. Aren't men more intelligent that women. Aren't women more creative than men? Don't men and women use different sides of their brain? Don't women and men react differently to different circumstances? Aren't men more sexually active than women? Aren't women much more likely to catch a sexual disease? Aren't women the ones who end up pregnant? Are they really one and the same? Equal yes. Same, no.

No its about societal pressures in the region in which they live. If they practiced Islam according to what the Quran says, there would be no such problem.

A teacher who is no longer there. We have a book for guidance. Those who follow the book are true Muslims. those who don;t are not. It does not matter what they say.

Its not just about belief. What does the Bible say about heaven and hell?

Thank you for proving once again that you have no knowledge about the religion Islam. No religious texts can not be interpreted many ways. There are very clear guidelines. Of course, there are always some grey areas. Would you say there's no room for interpretation in the US legal system?

if only the Quran did not exist, right? Here's what the Quran says:

More ignorance on your part. Religion is define y what is preaches. Society is defined by what it practices. I could point to all the crimes in the US and say it is the problem of Christianity. I would be wrong though because those are problems with the society and not the religion. Get the difference?

And tell me why do tolerant Christians burn the Quran when they know it is sacred to someone. Is that act not born of spite and hate.

The real way of solving a problem is looking into the source. Anyone with basic knowledge of the Quran knows that it does not stem from religion but from the culture. So yes, as you said the first step is to recognize that before we go on to solving it. I'm glad you agree with our approach.

Thanks for highlighting your ignorance about Islam. P

 

That's missing a point about the successful integration of most immigrants, as is actually highlighted by this case in particular. Although clearly the parents obviously seem to have rejected adherence to the laws and values of the UK, and have paid the penalty for that by being improsoned for their actions, the reason they did what they did was precisely because their daughter had become 'westernised' in their eyes, and had integrated into UK society. The actions of the parents were clearly wrong and deplorable (and a rare action that has sadly happened occasionally as a result of a small minority clinging desparately to a cultural idea that has no place in any decent society), but the case itself demonstrates how succesfully other members of the 'immigrant community' are in integrating with the culture of the UK.

Many Muslims (and not just young ones) are happily integrating in the UK, and getting on with their lives as 'Muslim British' people. A few are not, and are attempting to carry out asts as a result of that which are illegal in the UK. It is very sad for everyone that they did that, but they got caught, tried and imprisoned for it - their actions have in no way been tolerated or accepted by the UK (or by most of the Muslims here, of course). That tiny minority of people who still think that what they did is somehow acceptable will gradually disappear over time, of course, as the next generations of their family happily integrate with the rest of society, as the daughter of this couple was doing - hopefully the fact that these people have been caught, tried and imprisoned will serve as a deterent to any who might think that they can get away with the same sort of thing. It's not acceptable here, and never will be.

 

I'm afraid, Cenydd, that people on this particularly nutty kick don't care about reality, of the actual Muslims who actually live here and whom we actually know - they are enjoying their fantasies too much to come out into the real world. Sad!

 

Honor killing in the UK...The result of multi-culturalism.

 

I am not defending it.

The practice has nothing to do with Islam.

Have you missed the numerous times I have repeated it is cultural?

Who claims it to be permitted by Islam? What would give somebody - more specifically a Muslim - the idea that "honour killing" is Islamic.

The Quran is clear on what justifies capital punishment. Family honour is not a legitimate reason.

So, you want me to just roll over and lie about my religion?

Ignore the fact that Hindu and Sihks also practice this. Ignore that this predates Islam. Ignore that nothing in Islamic texts permits this. Ignore that in other religious texts it is permitted.

I have never been askex to just stop arguing and lie before. I don't know whether to be insulted or take it as a compliment.

I assume that was a joke to begin your post ?

 

Like this one, for instance. What on earth can he mean? The Americans kill four times as many proportionately as we do. The result of extreme racism perhaps? What is the point of such hogwash?

 

Thats whats so annoying about it.

Its that they dont talk to Muslims. Dont interact with Muslims. Don't ask Muslims about things relating to Islam.

They go on anti-Islam websites, written by people with no credentials on Islamic studies, and expect to get unbiased correct information about Islam.

And then thinking they know more about Islam than Muslims do - Muslims they don't interact with.

You do not need to be a Muslim to know Islam, the Quran and Hadith are easily available and I know many Imams and Muslims would help with understanding it. I have offered many times here myself.

But they look to Robert Spencer, Pamela Geller, David Wood, Raymond Ibrahim to "understand" Islam. And expect to actually learn something true and valuable.

Its amazing, in a way.

 

That's actually not that common. Lets not even get into the fact that that is Catholic Priests doing the molestation. Most Catholic Priests do not molest children, however far more pedophiles exist outside of the Christian or Mormon clergy than inside of it. We can discuss the merits of allowing priests to take a wife or more transparency of the papacy but I'm not catholic so I don't care.

Secondly, to say that Catholic Clergy engaging in sexual crimes is relevant to this is stupid and a childish indicator of your poor defenses of multi-culturalism. Which, if we all know anything there is more evidence that multi-culturalism has failed. Do Catholic families kill their daughters for getting raped? No. Do Catholic families force their women to cover their faces like lepers? No. Do Catholic Families support the notion of a Catholic Theocracy where non-Catholics are forced through coercion to convert or pay a special tax to not be imprisoned or killed? No. Do Catholics strap bombs onto themselves and kill Innocent people and believe they will go to heaven? No. To Catholics hold down little girls while a priest hacks her clitoris off? No. Do Catholics massacre people of another faith or even kick up much a fuss when non Catholics publish a satirical cartoon about Jesus? No.

Muslims need to realize that Western Culture is not compatible with Islamic "values". They need to assimilate or be content being ostracized and regarded as foreign in the Nations they settle in the Western World.

 

What those Muslims did was a crime in any culture and they got punished for it just the same as there are murders in every country and people get punished for it. There's no one calling out that they should be freed. What's the issue here really?

Do Christians never commit crimes?

 

And 64% said it should be punished.

Weak excuse.

Only to ignorant folks. There are nearly 2 billion Muslims integrated into dozens of cultures. You cannot judge the religion through individuals.

You are the one claiming it.

Ironic how when 34 Imams issued a Fatwa against honour killing, you criticized there was only so many and not thousands.

Egypt's Ifta ' Council of Al-Azhar University, a leading religious authority of Sunni Islam, issued a fatwa stating that applying the punishment on a female caught committing adultery or found in an adulterous situation, "should be up to the ruler." Following this same logic, the mufti of Gaza, Sheikh 'Abd al-Karim Kahlut, goes so far as to demand the death penalty for honor murderers because "they are not authorized to carry out [the punishment] on*the women . "

You link to an article which describes two honour killings by Sihks, only to then go on to quote someone from the comments section?

Doh!

http://www.loonwatch.com/2012/02/ho...y-shouldnt-trust-robert-spencers-scholarship/

Not really, if it is even true. You seem to think it says 91% of Muslims commit honour killings.

Evidence is Islamic texts.

Because it is cultural practice in those regions where Muslims make up much more than a quarter of the population.

Then provide what is being interpreted in the religious texts.

Lol" rocking the boat too much "? Please. Islam did more than just rock the boat of Arab culture. Educate yourself.

Bah, you little foos

As I said, there is no Islamic culture in the same sense as arab or american culture.

Islamic culture is itself a contentious term. Muslims live in many different countries and communities, and it can be difficult to isolate points of cultural unity among Muslims, besides their adherence to the religion of Islam. Anthropologists and historians nevertheless study Islam as an aspect of, and influence on, culture in the regions where the religion is predominant.

 

That makes no sense whatsoever.

You’re all talk.

The irony!

Only a small percentage of Westerners still believe in the literal word of God in any religious texts and it isn’t about disowning them. Westerners for the most believe morals are dynamic, adapting to the times and needs of society and not static and divine. That’s a huge difference and obviously beyond your comprehension.

How am I lying? You know nothing of my religion, like most in my society I don’t believe in a god. Yes, Christianity has problems with homophobia but nothing like your religion!

As I have stated many times religion is merely a part of culture not apart from it so being a religious problem makes it a cultural one too. As I’ve pointed out religion generally does not have the same dominant role. The issue of pedophile preists is certainly a problem for Christianity, or at least a large part of it. The problem of pedophilia generally is not a Christian problem though, since it has nothing to do with Christianity (except some very minor sects maybe). Lawmakers do not look to religious scholars studying interpretations of ancient religious texts. The Bible is not seen as the ultimate legal source, unlike the Quran. Moral and ethical arguments do not circle around religious texts but are based on what is considered human dignity in our times. Very often this involves a delicate balance rather than dogmatic religious doctrine. Here this will give you an idea of what modern day Christianity can encompass: Dutch rethink Christianity for a doubtful world

That’s not to say there still aren’t issues where Christianity has a large hand to play for example with abortion in Ireland but these are the exceptions.

Clearly it does. The role of women in Islam is clearly subordinate to that of man and they have far from equal status whatever your religious texts say. Well men are generally taller than women although there is a considerable overlap. There again women in my society are generally taller than Muslim men so I’m not sure what you want to get out of that. I don’t think there is any evidence that men are more intelligent than women. I think there is some that men’s intelligence has a greater spread. On academic performance there are many examples where girls score significantly better for example UK schools and I suspect given equal opportunity in Islamic cultures girls would also likely outperform boys. I don’t know whether men and women make equal use of both sides of their brains however if true I wonder if this is a conditioned state. With increasing equality between the sexes the differences become less and other attributes more important. In my society I would say men and women are equally sexually active and have approximately equal frequencies of contracting a sexual disease with the exception of urinary infections. Yes, many women “end up” pregnant, it’s a temporary condition. I believe they are really very similar and what you draw attention to is by and large an expression of sexism without significance to equal human dignity, which has nothing in common with your “equality”.

I have already explained it is not only one region as you think. Evidence of your claim?

Allow me to correct you, the book is regarded as law not just a guide. A good example stays around long after the deceased has departed. Just empty religious dogma hindering development.

Yes it is just about belief whatever the Bible may say! As I said in the West most Christians consider the Bible as an inspiration not to be taken literally and in my society at least most don’t believe the Bible is of any use at all far less the concept of hell!

Nothing has been proven, far less any lack of knowledge on my part. Your sig is very appropriate and yet you haven’t realised it! Religious texts have been interpreted in very many different ways so you are demonstrating more than a lack of knowledge! As I’ve pointed out western morals/ethics are dynamic so yes not only is there room for interpretation in the US legal system but it is a requirement. However you cannot compare the two as your religious system by contrast is meant to be static.

It doesn’t matter what you can quote from the Quran as I’ve repeatedly stated it is how it is practiced that matters. How do you explain that all the religious authorities in all the Islamic cultures almost exclusively do not respect what you claim is a women’s right? Do you consider a rape victim being “adviced” to marry her rapist as being granted freedom to choose her husband? If a women faces an unbearable option by claiming her right to refuse a marriage proposal is she still free to choose? Sure I know in your male dominated societies where men are so much wiser than women a women would always “choose” to follow a man’s advice right? The fact that your religious texts cement prejudices leading to such male dominated societies means your religion does not do what it says according to your quote. Nasty double talk.

No not ignorance on my part just nonsense on yours. Religion doesn’t preach, preachers do. Yes, society/culture is defined by what it practices and religion is part of that culture. Yes, you could and no doubt a lot of Christian Americans would agree with you, so what? No, I don’t get the difference since religion is part of culture which in turn defines society.

Well maybe because books like other articles eventually end up as rubbish and can get incinerated. You cannot expect non believers to take all such sensitivities into account. They can also be abused to gain status and power where they are taken into account so even there a balance must be struck. Personally if I noticed a Quran in a rubbish bin I would not save it from being incinerated and I doubt many non Muslims would. I might well hope that no Muslim discovers it but that’s a different matter. I’m not a Christian but that is certainly not born out of any spite or hate.

What has been highlighted here is your Islamic cultural mindset!

I stated the consequences of how these texts are interpreted not condoning interpretations.

You are demonstrating what it means to be a true Muslim

Nonsense I have made no such admission.

 

What do you know about Britain, look at the city you appear to be from.

A total den of drugs, filth, and vice.

I prefer Rotterdam and Feyenoord....

 

As long as you avoid 020 Gaza and the other Islamic / Dutch Antilles ghetto''s its quite a good place

Like Paris with its beauty and at the same t ime its Islamic No go zones.

 

Again you obviously consider 64% wanting it to be punished a postive number. If 36% of Britons wanted murderers of Muslims to go free while 64% were in favour of punishing them would you consider the percentage positively? Of course there’s no mention of what punishment would be appropriate, perhaps as in the case of the Palestinians, suspended sentences?

Its not any excuse at all, its something very basic which is commonly ignored by Muslims and other religious extremists in their arguments.

Its not ignorance at all simply the way it works. You exaggerate, reliable estimates are around 1½ billion and it gives a misleading picture to describe them as integrated into dozens of cultures as if the cultures were alien to Muslims! The vast majority of Muslims live in Islamic cultures. Like it or not that is the way it works.

I am claiming that Muslims, including those with high religious authority, have interpreted ancient religious Islamic texts in such a way as to support honour killings, and I gave you an example. What I am not claiming is that there is proof in the Quran of islam condoning it. That’s not the same is it?

Egypt's Ifta ' Council of Al-Azhar University, a leading religious authority of Sunni Islam, issued a fatwa stating that applying the punishment on a female caught committing adultery or found in an adulterous situation, "should be up to the ruler." Following this same logic, the mufti of Gaza, Sheikh 'Abd al-Karim Kahlut, goes so far as to demand the death penalty for honor murderers because "they are not authorized to carry out [the punishment] on*the women . " [/QUOTE]


Why is that ironic? You asked for the interpretations and I provided you with sources leading to them. It has nothing to do with numbers of imams. It wasn’t so much a criticism there weren’t more than a criticism of your evidence.

Yes, the article mentions two honour killings by Sikhs among the many examples by Muslims, so what?
Yes, it was a mistake on my part to quote from comments, I was busy at the time. I have done a little research and the manual of Islamic law is Umdat al-Salik( o1.1-2). Here is a link concerning the Palestinian authorities:

The Palestinian Women's Movement is awaiting the implementation of the reconciliation deal between Hamas and Fatah, which will pave the way for a legitimate parliament to approve the long-awaited legislation which abolishes the legal clauses that allow crimes of honour.

source

Seem to you maybe.

No not really as ancient religious texts generally don’t make a lot of sense being full of ambiguity and contradictions. You would need to come with a reasonable explanation as to why practice in Islamic jurisdictions is at variance with your evidence. You also haven’t addressed the fact that religious texts can give indirect support. You only have to read Ronald0’s posts to see results of this.

Yes exactly, only not by chance but by Muslims exerting cultural influence!

I’ve pointed you in the right direction.

If you were educated yourself then you would be able to distinguish between religious glorification dogma and history. Why did Islam not specifically ban a lot of the cultural practices considered wrong by today’s standards like honour killings, genocide, FGM, slavery, polygamy etc. etc.?

Childish.

Explain. The same can be said of many cultures, not least Western culture. One point of cultural unity in Islamic culture is antisemitism. By influencing culture Islam becomes part of it and when the influence is pervasive then the culture becomes Islamic.

 

I went to a Feyenoord/Ajax game.

It was.....'good banter', let's put it that way.

The Feyenoord wind Ajax up about being a Jew club, and a Jew city.

 

The banter was good, eh?....Hmmm.

 

First this disclaimer; Notice when I speak of spitefully of Sharia law, or of Muslims that little lower case 'r' prefix (if it happens to rarely not be there its because of I did not notice it was missing). The 'r' denotes 'radical'. It's rSharia law, rClertics, rMuslims and radical interpretations of the Koran that I have a problem with. Rsharia law translated means any part of Sharia law if applied would result in a humanitarian atrocity etc.

You state the obvious. I do wonder why some members, and all the usual suspects do not man up and admit when they are wrong or have deceived or misdirected someone either intentionally or by mistake? This is common not only in this forum but with the majority of rMuslim apologists. What am I ranting about? It’s this; Did I say or suggest that all Muslim MUST obey ALL fatwas?

No, A fatwa is a legal opinion by an religious authority. Just like a supreme court interpreting. The problem that you so conveniently missed is that these fatwas ARE obeyed, sometimes the most vile decree’s are obeyed, at times many Muslims! There are other issues, fatwas are often obeyed by rMuslims to communicate a terrorist or radicalized message. It’s much like the KKK members in the USA which were found guilty of murder one for issuing messages by different media etc advocating that real Americans should kill blacks. In fact anyone in the USA can be convicted for advocating murder with special emphasis on hate crimes. If that kind of law could be created world wide many rMuslim clerics would be in jail or executed.

You have a way of lying about what I say. I do not lie, if you think I do use quote tags* of my words for those serious and slandrous accuations. if you want me to clarify anything I said. Everything I said was valid and true. * (Your lie was already in quote tags.)

That is YOUR opinion, and you are far far from being an expert on Islamic (sharia) law. Additionally, I did not say the Koran condoned capital crime (which differs from nation to nation). The trouble is ones man murder is another’s righteous killing. That said the Koran does advocate killing and other near atrocities or outright atrocity. I said that athe Koran is used to justify murder, sometimes mass murder. The Muslims have an responsibility to police their own people. Those rMuslim Goons that advocate death to America or specific individuals should be arrested and punished. Also everyday muslims should be in the freaking streets PROTESTING the rMuslim’s and the religious authorities who advocate violence against a person or a nation instead being in the streets celebrating the murders of over 2000 innocent men, women, and children, victims of the rmuslim 9/11 hijackers. I do wish that those rMuslim criminals had survived and could have been convicted punished then given to the families of the murdered.

reva