US invasion of China.

But do not forget, the President is not always the final say in these matters.

I brought up President Carter for several reasons, one of which was that when President Carter chose to sever formal ties with Taiwan, Congress responded with the Taiwan Relations Act, which basically formed an unofficial dialog between the two nations, in opposition to what the President tried to direct.

Just because the President wants something, that does not mean that Congress will agree. And when it comes to fulfilling demands in an international treaty, the President really has no choice.

 

1st time yes, all the rest were business related.

Are you sitting on your head again?

 

Actually, I do not underestimate them at all. I know what their capabilities are, and where they are not.

Interesting thing about the J-11, most of them use Russian made engines, Russian made avionics, and Russian made fire control.

Now why is that?

Their Aircraft Carrying Guided Missile Cruiser, also Russian made. The majority of their latest ships all use German or Russian engines. Their attempt to build a "Chinese Airliner" is also years behind schedule, despite buying plans, engines and avionics from a US company.

I actually do not underestimate them, because I have been watching their track record for decades. Generally, most of their military equipment for domestic use is not very good. And a lot of their export is not very good either, however it is cheap which makes it attractive to some nations.

Tell me, how scared should any nation be when they go up against a country which tries to think of itself as a "Super Power", yet the majority of tanks in her inventory date back to the Korean War? Where the majority of engines and transmissions are imported from other nations? Where we repeatedly see strings of failed prototypes, disguised under "constantly improving"?

Yea, I know the China Fanbois try to tout that endless string of prototypes as a success, but I did not buy it 10 years ago and I do not buy it now. No country in the world operates that way, and neither would China. In fact, they crow that this new design will be the best, talk about how they will be cranking out thousands of them, then quietly retire the plan and start to scream about their next improved design.

Like the MBT-2000, a tank so bad not even the Chinese Army wanted it (so they got sold to Pakistan). So now it joins all the other failures of Chinese Tank Design, and is shoved aside for the MBT-3000! Which will replaced in another decade by the MBT-4000!

Meanwhile, the PLA continues to use their most common tank, the Type-59.

 

like i said before china shortcoming is the powerplant, engine. however, lets compare china 20yrs ago vs now. youll see big different, its not state of art, but its modern.
as for J11, i have study alot on this, their initial batch may have some russian avionc, but later one mostly use domestic.
china never claim to be superpower. in fact china couldnt be happier if everyone underestimate them.
china don't exports their top-of line stuff, mainly jf17 etc. but hey if you want compare china export of jf17/mbt2000 as their military cabilities, thats fine.
in the 70s we bash japan stuff, yet anyone bashing japan stuff now? china has the will/resource/manpower to learn/adapt/invest its military. china 52c or similar are much more modern compare to their ship used in 90s. its not burke DDG, but they are in the midist of overhaul their military, and they are still doing catch up.

of course they are constanly improving the stuff. take 52ddg series, 52a-52c last waht 10yrs. PLA still using 52a etc. of coures in any military development there are project scrap due to different issues. if you did any research on 52a-52c, you can see the improvement for each generation. they didn't build massive amount because they are still learning and catching up.

many people often bash japan in 70s, bash s.korea in 80 until they start make quality products. its the same procedure that china try to accomplish. my friend bought a chinese brand smartphone using android guess what, its on par against samsung or other global competitor. in term of technology gap, they are still behind, but they are catching up by any means necessary.

what you looking at is all china exports, looking at spec on 52c/54/56 ships, j11b/j10b etc compare china military 10yrs ago, then let me know if we should underestamte or not. ive been tracking china progress since late 90s. what i see is they leapfrog in several field, and continue to do so. its not the current china i'm worry about, its what they will accomplish in 10, 20yrs from now, provide their internal issues is solved.

what i know is if a country size of china decide to spend $$$/willpower/etc to acquire/design tech eventually they will succeed. you can't expect them design a f22 when they only have knoweldge of mig21. there is gonna be platform gap between. china has now what few hundreds j10/j10b, dozens 52c/54/56 now, these thing happen within 10yrs of time. metallurgy is the shortcoming in china defense.

 

i'm tired arguing someone thinking everything in china is copied. and still think nuke is "clean"
if every product appearance look resemble to another products then everything in this world is copied. like i said, china study extense on others design, then incorprate its own design/tech into it. we seen again and again. j10/j11 52ddg etc. if you think j10 is copy of lavi, well they done a good job since lavi never went to productions, somehow china compelete the design by COPY its own radar/electronic/avionic etc into the plane.
japan try to copy f16 with tis f2, taiwan try to copy f16 with its IDF, israel with its lavi. yet china is the only country able to get something similar into productions, and its comparable to other 4th gen aircraft.

 

Heads up. Trolling me will result in you receiving an infraction.

 

The Taiwan Relations Act isn't a treaty. It is a statute that the president or his successor are free to ignore. America has changed profoundly. America no longer enforces laws that are inconvenient.

 

That is up to the mods, not you, and I am not trolling you, I was replying to a post you made to me, look up the term trolling and maybe you will figure it out. Want me to stop replying to you, simply stop posting to me and we can both go our merry seperate ways.

 

It is hard not to notice Asian in the local PF crowd. Distinctive feature of Asians is an inexpressible obstinacy. You were proved to be wrong. I gave you the link and you are still in denial. Well, who cares about it. This conversation is over.

 

Now who on Earth was doing that? I don't think anybody has seriously bashed "Japanese stuff" since the late 1930's. They have accomplished things with electronics and engines that is still amazing. And even within years after WWII ended they were turning out vehicles that were reliable and well designed and built. So I have absolutely no idea where you are getting that idea from.

What most of us who really study the military and it's equipment look at is the domestic ability of a nation. What percentage of it's equipment is of a modern design, what percentage is of a domestic design, and what percentage is of a domestic manufacture. And in this China fails. Miserably. Constantly.

Most of their equipment is based on Soviet designs (not Russian, Soviet). Major components are routinely manufactured overseas, off of the original design. And in many cases, these designs are not even used by the creating country anymore. You may try to spin it in whatever way you like, that is all politics. And I largely could not care less about politics. I care about real things, real equipment, and where it is really made.

You try to demean Japan, yet since the 1920's they had become a world leader in engineering and design. They made equipment before and during WWII that was among the finest in the world. What exactly has the PRC made that has been a marvel of quality and engineering?

Not much my friend, not much.

 

Casper, we need each other as foils. That's why we are in this together. Next time you troll me I'll go straight to Winter Bear.

 

No we don't, and since you seem to think I am doing something I am not and I do not intend to get banned because someone else is confused by what I am doing I will not be posting to you again, even if you post to me there will be no replies, problem solved.
Have a nice day.

 

Silence becomes you.

 

Ever think military doctrines are different the US is largely offensive as in we defend by attacking first and hard. China just has to DEFEND we will not go nuclear without a good reason and on defense their numbers and tech is more than enough in fact makes them superior to us.

They could be a simple we will sit here and take it, letting the US and any allies exhaust themselves.

 

I don't believe china could endure a long conflict. While they made great progress since the 50's in agriculture they are still dependent on food importation (they're the biggest importer of food product worlwide), and a big chunk of those food import comes from her potential enemies, the usa and canada, which are also her trading partners and her main source of revenue, especially the usa. North america is natural ressources rich. We can tough it out. China not really.

Also, the younger, educated, city dwelling generations are being more and more exposed to consumerism and western lifestyle, and they are loving it. So, i wouldn't count to much on them rallying under the great patriotic banner and do the long march again.

 

Wouldn't the younger, educated, city dwelling generations be more of a problem in the US? Still much China's population is poor and lives either in the countryside or new cities with poor infastructure.

 

No, young and educated have no time for war. They wan't a good life, fun and money. All of which they can get now by being friendly with us. All of which they would lose, including maybe their lives, in case of a war.

 

While this was true at one time, Chinese foreign policy, and the military doctrine and force structure which supports it, have become much more assertive in recent years, as demonstrated by the political conflicts which have arisen between China and almost all its neighbors, mostly due to Chinese territorial claims in the South China Sea and Sea of Japan. The Chinese are seeking to expand their economic power into political and military power at the regional level. In order to do this they must develop the ability to project military power throughout the region, even in the face of opposition from other nations such as Japan, South Korea, Viet Nam, Philippines, and (maybe) the US. In this situation, simple defense is not good enough.

 

Yes, but the US has more of these people than China. Basically weak people who want stuff, rather than power. This is what happened in Britain after WW1. Of course the US can't be compared to Britain it's a totally different state structure, economy and population.

 

those dispute started since 50 yrs ago, the diaoyu island start since 1895, so its not thing new. china don't have dispute with S.korea. also china import alot raw material which require its expansion in navy to protect it.

 

Wont happen. It is not possible to transport the amount of troops needed.

 

The conflicts might not be new, but Chinese aggressiveness in asserting their claims is.

China's failure to keep the Kim dynasty in North Korea on their leash isn't winning any friends in the South. For now economic interests supersede these considerations, but that can change.

 

nope, S.korea has very warm relationship with china now. especially compare to japan.

china is not the only aggressor, vietnam/phillippine/japan has blame too. japan escalte the status quo by purchase the island from prviate party, then ultra nationalist Abe escalte even further. vietnam/phillippine both harass chinese ship and other ships in their claim region before. few month back phillippine patrol ship shot and kill some taiwaness fisherman in the region.

 

And he'll scratch your eyes out ........ What a sorry man.

Highlander

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And he'll scratch your eyes out ........ What a sorry man.

Highlander

 

This question came up after WW2 and during the Korean War. The concensus was that it could not be done. You really need to lay off the Mary Jane.