War On Electric Cars: BigOil Smugly Says: "Let the Free Market Decide"

So who's car isn't getting them to work tomorrow?

 

You're right, I mixed it up with another story...that one was cheap eBay turbos & an intercooler on a stock 5.3 LS motor. But again: this was 1200HP on stock internals! This was 1200HP with stock pistons, rings, heads, and even ignition system!

I'm hard pressed to think of a cheaper way to manage 1000HP!

 

put it this way,yes its impressive and what they used was cheap. but these are guys with straight knowledge and the parts were more than likely donated to them just for advertising purposes. but these guys have the knowledge,experience and straight up masterminds of their craft. put it simply they are probably 10 times better mechanics than me and have a much larger network to go with when it comes to "hook ups" lol.

that being said even for me that would be cheap because i know what im doing. the average joe that is barely a shade tree will pay alone $3k to buy the engine and then have another mechanic rip it apart, replace whats necessary,clean it up and rebuild it. then they have to set up the turbo system, then they have to drop it back into the car, then from there it must go to be properly tuned and dyno'd.

all in all for this cheap set up to be completed and thrown in your ride you are looking at a minimum of about $8k, id say no more than $12k but then again it all depends on who you go to to get it done.

in the end though, its still a V8, no replacement for displacement . plus chevy has always built a reliable V8, its just like Dodge having the best diesel in their Cummins, simply the top of the top.

still though, i give props because thats still cheaper than my single turbo set up i want that will cost me $14k alone, then after all my work ill make about 450whp lol. then again thats a German car though lol.

 

Hmmm...diversionary topic of horsepower. Gas-schills have latched onto horsepower.

OK, let's talk about low-end torque then, if we're going to pitch the "you can't get the power with electric that you can with petrolium" spin..

How do you folks feel about biodiesel cars for the power to pull the largest loads?

And of course having an electric or hybrid electric running off a solar panel at home..?

Biodiesel. Anyone?

 

im not a "schill" first of all, im so sorry my job/hobby and one of the passions of my life upsets you so bad. i like making horsepower, been in love with doing this since i was little and im sorry i wish to enjoy doing it.

and also speaking of electric cars making big strides in the world of speed thats why i ike Tesla Motors, they are proving they can combine true electric powered cars and have the ass kicking behind them to make them enjoyable. not only are they fast, they last a hell of alot longer on a charge than the crappy Volt or even the Leaf by far, but they dont look like crappy little anal probes and have the room and luxury all the way around.

im surprised you havent jumped at the chance to help promote Tesla motors with their true innovation for the future and the fact that its an all american product. yet you would rather try and talk about how great that crappy Volt is and hump GM's leg. you wanna call me a schill? sounds to me like you are to be honest, trying to do anything to help Obama and GM with the failure they have produced simply out of part bias.

there is a difference between you and me, i like a wide range of vehicles and am very unbiased to what i feel is a good automotive product and what isnt. you on the other hand dont give a (*)(*)(*)(*) if its a good product just as long as it goes with your agenda. thats not very fair to the public.

speaking of diesels i wish their were more of them built, can be serious torque freaks as well as get some major gas mileage. i wouldnt see any problem with more diesels cars being produced.

 

I like Ford myself, but only their big rigs. They haven't been great at little cars. I'm no huge fan of GM, believe me. Classic that the no-nothing powers in DC chose them.

The japanese, as usual, are leaps and bounds ahead of us on the hybrid. But that doesn't help our GDP here.

This brings me to a broader topic which is pride in American products. Used to be the naturalized germans monopolized the field of R&D. Back in the day this country produced hardy products with long shelf lives. But the quick-profit sheisters of the new-wave malignant capitalism are all about engineering stuff to break. Not too soon, but not after a long time either. They've struck a delicate balance between angering the consumer with inferior products that break and getting them to forget how long ago it was they purchased the produce. I'd say that averages around 3 years.

The Japanese still have pride in their products and it shows. Decades down the line their little cars and trucks can have over 300K on the original engine and transmissions, still getting beat to hell and starting up and getting their drivers where they want to go. And with minimal maintenance all through the years they've been on the road.

You treat an American product like that and if you hit 50K without major repairs, consider yourself extraordinarily lucky!

What we need is to send our engineers over to Japan and have them hypnotized into building a decent product that people can begin to trust again. This has nothing to do with electric cars but just American cars in general.

So far the only cars we produce that you can trust are big Fords and Dodges. In that order. And that isn't because the electric car cannot be perfected, because it can and will be [by the japanese undoubtedly]. It's that malignant capitalism has eroded the trust of the world in American products. And that's a darn shame.

 

Reread the story. The engine (5.3 LS truck motor) can be gotten for about $500 from a dozen places. The internal changes can easily be done by a hot rodder. The tuning can easily be done in the car with a laptop...that is the appeal of the FAST system.

That is pathetic. $14,000 for less power than a new Boss Mustang.

 

Biodiesel? Well, it has promise, once you get past the problems...like damaging injection systems (IIRC, Caterpillar explicitly says NOT to use it on their ACERT-series truck engines), and especially "clouding" and clogging in the cold long before regular diesel fuel. Biodiesel is fine, until you discover that running it has blown up the injector pump in your new F-350. Replacing it and other damaged parts will cost approximately ten thousand dollars. (That is not a typo.)

And, of course, there is the fact it turns to Jell-o in the cold...try running it in Wisconsin in February when it's -35 degrees. Not happening.

 

You know nothing about modern cars, that is crystal clear! Here's a Million mile Ford van! 350,000+ is COMMON on livery cars, I drove several with over 400,000 miles and one car (a Lincoln Town Car, I recall a 199 with 580,000+. 250,000+ on vans was pretty common, they had at least two Astros & one E250 over 400K.

 

Well that's nice to see Ford is getting it together with smaller gas cars.

Diesel can't be beat for torque and you know that it can be cut with biofuels. Now that solar thermal is getting into swing, the processing of those cut fuels, within a given proportion, will now be much cheaper.

 

You didn't actually read my post, did you. (That isn't a question.)

 

i read the story and im telling ya like it is. for me and the other mechanics that know what they are doing it would very well be much cheaper than it would be fore the average consumer. yes the engine can be gotten by anyone for $500, hell i could get one for somebody for $300 because my buddy owns a salvage yard lol. the average consumer is gonna pay for all the parts on what needs to be replaced for that engine, then they have to pay the labor rate on that. then they gotta pay for the twin turbo kit, the intercooler system, the FAST system for their vehicle, and then they have to pay the for the labor rate to install it and have everything put back together inside the vehicle.

a stock engine swap alone just to replace your stock blown motor can cost $1500 after parts and labor.

but then you wanna add all of the above up, throw in a dyno and tuning session which can cost some good money depending on how many pulls you want or need to make the tune right and maximize the power.

its gonna be some cheddar, i dont care if you can get the engine for $500. remember i work in this business, done project cars. it aint cheap just because the engine is cheap.

still, impressive for the amount of money this would cost with their set up.

thats cars like BMW,Mercedes, etc. etc. if i had $14k to spend on my subaru i would be making 10000hp because id get the V6 twin turbo swap in it lol.

but the M# is not what you consider a HP freak, its a true driving experience machine hinted with luxury. and grant it i got the inline 6 in mine. lets not forgett my year model is naturally aspirated as well and the BOSS is a tricked out 302. also remember my car is a 2004 M3, it only came with 333hp/279 tq which raped every mustang, except for the cobras obviously which came supercharged. even then with the much more sophisticated suspension and 50/50 weight ratio the M3 is a handling machine. no i couldnt kill the new Boss in a straight line, but ill rape its ass around a road coarse lol.

another thing to keep in mind my man, WHP and BHP are 2 different things. the stage 1 turbo charger for my car would make more HP than the BOSS as it would net me around 523BHP, which calculates into around 450WHP which is what is being planted to the wheels. the BOSS makes 440hp which calculated to around 377whp. so $14k later i would have the BOSS on the ropes in both a straight line and easily in the corners. lets not also forget my car stock has a top speed of 172mph while the BOSS has a topp speed of 155.

now you wanna try and see if the BOSS can handle the V8 M3's lol? i doubt they would very much. but for the price a BOSS would be the more affordable. but then again why the hell would i spend all that money on a BOSS when i could get a GT that only makes like 30HP less and is easily upgradeable and its cheaper?


so lets see, lets break it down between my car and the new BOSS.

i bought my 04 M3 for $30k after taxes 3 years ago. the new Boss costs $40k before taxes.

my car stock has 333hp/279tq. with a 3.2inline 6
the Boss has 440hp/380tq. with a 5.0l engine

both cars have wicked suspension out the gate.

$14k spend on my car and i will have 60-70 more whp than the boss, which mean ill spend as much as i would to buy a BOSS, but now outperform it in every aspect. except for looks because beauty is in the eye of the beholder and thats just an opinion.

i dunno man, it just depends on what you want to use these cars for to who really has the edge. but many variables come in no matter what car you are using and for what.

 

(*)(*)(*)(*) my moms 88' crown victoria with a 5.0l in it went like 350k before it finally crapped out lol.

 

Firstly, whats so "smug" about allowing the people IE: the free market to decide.

Second, if they are smug about that so what. The free market should decide, because then the individual and the people in general decide. Not government. Which is the way it should be in a free and constitutional republic such as ours.

 

No, you still aren't comprehending. A 5.3 truck motor can be picked up all day for about $5-600. That is complete with accessories & wiring, ready to run. Swap to the CNC ported heads, open the ring gap, swap the cam (stock LS roller lifters can be reused), install the turbo kit. The FAST system is plug and play...it's ready to go right out of the box (that's one reason for its popularity!), and can be tuned with a laptop.

News flash: most hot rodders (like me) do their own labor!

You do not understand: that is the beauty of the FAST system! It doesn't NEED dyno tuning...it is tuned via laptop while you drive!

It is not possible to make power cheaper than an LS motor.

Actually, a Mustang (I'm not even sure it was a Boss) beat a NEW M3 around Willow Springs!

So, you would have $54,000 (!) in your car. Hmm, what will that buy? Well...a 2005 Z51 Corvette, with a fire-breathing 6.0 LS motor and 6-speed, has a high book value of $24,000. That leaves $30K for engine tweaks, handling tweaks, and maybe one of John Lingenfelter's full-boogie 7 litre LS engines.

 

ugh ONCE AGAIN!!! for the AVERAGE CONSUMER,and NOT the everyday mechanic who knows what he is doing and can do the work on his own, its gonna cost a good amount of money for them to get the work done for them.

and i know all about the FAST system, my buddy has a Syclone with 700WHP and it uses the FAST system.

ugh please understand what im trying to tell you. yes for me and you it would be a cheaper considering we can do our own work, for a person who doesnt know how to do the work its gonna cost a minimum of $10k to make that kind of power.

news flash: for those who dont do their own labor its gonna cost them $10k minimum.

dude i know, ive worked with it.

no (*)(*)(*)(*), ONCE AGAIN no replacement for displacement. but if you wanna get technical a 426 Hemi would eat an LS motor alive lol.

lol you mean with Adam Corolla and Matt Farah driving the cars??? are you kidding me lol? you call that a true testament to what either of those cars can do? thats blasphemy.

come up with a better example before i take that any kind of serious lol.

um no, $30k+$14k=$44k. and once again i bought this car over 3 years ago, now my 04'M3 books for around $20-$24k. so if i bought another 04 M3 i too would have $24k+ to mess with. in which all i would have to do was add is the stage 2 turbo kit which is $18k and gives me around 750hp and then add a meth kit. still have anywhere between $4-$6k to play with in which i would touch up the suspension and do some weight loss options.

we could argue about this all day. but just one though, you do know just the short block for an LS7 Lingenfelter engine is $7k correct? so consider a completely assembled Lingenfelter 7l to be a minimum of $20k range and you are only gonna be sitting on about 640hp lol.

talking to you about this you do not take alot of things into consideration lol.

 

Well what do you know? You CAN have the best of both worlds in a hyrid.

600 hp. Not too shabby. But then that's the idea behind hybrids: guts when you need them, zero emissions and electric propulsion when you don't. Looks pretty bad-ass too!

Now, what's the problem with that?

 

The obvious ones: it is not available to the public, and if it ever is, will come with a staggering price tag.

 

absolutely nothing, great car. but um im willing to bet me, you and Jarlaxle could put our money together and still not be able to afford the car payment and insurance lol.

 

A relative on my mom's side owned an electric car around 1900. Are they making a comeback?

 

Yes, you may have heard about our economy and the trouble we have been having with foreign oil dependence and all the expensive warring surrounding that singular issue.

So what do you know, we're innovating again to stay ahead of the game.

I know huh? Just like the model T was. Very few could afford it. But the free market being what it is, competition for similar models will bring the price down. Just like with the early car, pretty soon everyone could afford one. Henry Ford didn't give up. Neither will makers of the Infinity Essence and it's bevy of clones soon to follow.

The free market is pretty cool that way. Unless of course you have reason to believe that in auto makers, the market is restricted in some way that favors other cars over the electric ones?

 

Don't get me started on BMW. My mom owned one. Took it in to get a sensor replaced. Dealership quoted her $500 to fix it. The car was constantly plauged with some kind of mechanical issue. And everything was a (*)(*)(*)(*)(*) to get to in the crowded engine bay.

 

Agreed, GM has bought into the malignant capitlism "ideal" of hiring cheap [and substandard] "engineers" [I use the term loosely], to design cars that will break and make you need a new one in 3-5 years.

Ford is different. Ford may be the saving grace of the US. GM should have been allowed to fail while instead the loan should've been given to Ford's R&D of electric cars. But how would Obama know that? He probably doesn't even know how to pump his own gas, let alone the difference in substance of one drive train vs another. He would't want to chip a nail popping the hood on the car. He probably thinks the engine is under the floor and that using platinum in the exhaust is far superior to more complete burning of fuel using platinum addition during the power stroke instead...lol..

People making policies about cars should KNOW about cars first. The problem is that Obama surrounds himself with advisors who compensate for his lack of a broad experience and education by whispering into his ears the "truth" about this and that special interest of theirs. But he is not alone. All presidents by definition are career politicians who have little to no knowledge of how the real world works. We need a new Amendment to the Constitution that will never happen because career politicians would have to be the ones who voted it in; and it negates their very existence. It may be the bane of our country in the end.

We need a competency exam for any candidates for president. This is why the founding fathers expressly wanted all presidential candidates to not be career politicians, but instead have worked with their hands all their life; preferably on a farm. You get real practical real quick under those conditions.

Courtney you would enjoy the new 600hp Infinity too I imagine. Wont' be long. You'll be able to afford one or another just like it.

 

I will stick with my 24 to 28mpg Trans Am. Sure, it has a cheap plastic interior that feels like a death trap in the summer time heat. But I don't have much problem getting on the freeway from the on ramp. I drove a Toyota Celica for 2 years. Was getting cut off by soccer moms with their 2 ton SUV's and mini vans. Got tired of that real quick and traded it in for my 3rd trans am. The only mechanical issues I have had were self inflicted by adding power to a car only designed to handle factory power levels. I did manage to get my first TA in the 11's on nothing more than bolt on's and a 3500 stall converter. Probably got about 18mpg, but enjoyed it .

 

what year and model was your moms and what sensor was it? and yes BMW's can be very finicky beings especially if you dont take care of them. NEVER EVER go to the dealer for anything lol, im surprised they dont charge you just to talk to a service manager.

lastly the engine bay is hardly crowded, it just looks that way because of the covers, they are one of the more straight forward cars ive had to work on. oh and lastly the german engines are built very efficient and REQUIRE that you run on the recommended fluids, i know all cars say that but with BMW they are being serious lol.

i have an 04 M3 with 72k miles on it. never had a mechanical issue other than replacing wear parts such as the clutch,brakes and rear struts. i run nothing but the recommended oil and fluids and i only do one oil change a year. the car still runs like a beast. like ive said before the only thing i cant stand about BMW is the plastics and rubbers the germans use, they rot away too quickly or break to easily. that is a VW, Mercedes issue as well but i havent seen it so much on Porsche.