Were the old racist Confederate white men right about black people?

I debunked your debunking of the study. Repeatedly. It's bad enough to be poor, but the inter-generational, discriminatory poverty is an entirely different issue. Schools so terribly underfunded that children are graduating without being able to read. Family that can't help each other in hard times because no one has any money. Racial hatred and prejudice all create a much worse form of poverty that disproportionately affects African Americans and make it much harder to escape poverty. And when there is no hope of escape, why wouldn't people turn violent? I would.

http://www.chicagobooth.edu/capideas/spring03/racialbias.html

 

Point of interest . . . what does money have to do with teaching reading skills? One really does not need computer tablets and powerpoints and other high tech this or that. All you need are the very basics; and the poorest of school districts can afford that . . . even if the district superintendent is scarfing up most of the funding to keep his mistress in a grand lifestyle. If kids can't read then look into their home environments and whether or not they are getting sufficient adult supervision. Oh . . . but that would probably be (fill in the blank) insensitive . . . and so it's best to just blame it all on funding.

 

Classroom size and teacher quality. Ever heard of a private school that turns out kids who can't read? Or a public school in a wealthy white neighborhood? I never have.

However, it is also more difficult to teach children who live with poverty, hunger, and parents who are absent due to overwork, prison, or abandonment. All of which is endemic in impoverished school districts. So adult supervision is an issue. If Mom is in jail and Dad is working three jobs, who is going to help a struggling child with homework?

 

Good points. So let's tackle them. First, even large classes of children can be taught to read by even a mediocre teacher, since you apply techniques rather than open up little skulls and pour the information in between the ears. Teaching children how to read is not a problem unless the individual children have learning disabilities . . . in which it's still not a teacher's problem as that involves a great deal of one on one training sessions and is not -- gasp! -- something that the average private school engages in either.

Most private schools won't handle kids with learning disabilities unless forced so to do by state laws . . . and even then they will almost all do exactly the same thing that public schools do in such situations . . . mostly just pretend to help by giving the afflicted child more time to complete assignments; which he or she can't do on his or her own anyway. Thus ends the myth that private schools are some sort of magical education machines turning out massive numbers of overachievers.

Now for the second part -- the impoverished and so forth and so on issues -- again that's not a teacher's or a school system's problem. That's a community effort problem and if the community at large is irresponsible and passive regarding the plight of their own children then it's on the heads of the community leaders. What are THEY doing with all the funding that bleeding heart democratic social organizations have been funneling into such communities for decades now across this nation only to see the money all vanish and nothing ever come of it? Do these bleeding heart do gooders EVER follow up and investigate or do they simply howl for "More money! More money!"?

Personal responsibility. Community responsibility. Things that once were prevalent inside this nation and that actually were fairly effective, have been replaced with the leftwing Cult of Self-Esteem and seeing to it that everyone is a passive victim, who's NOT supposed to develop of muster any individual effort or will power to change their destructive life styles and habits . . . since doing so would be (fill-in-the-blank) insensitive; but are instead just supposed to wait for outsiders to 'metaphorically' wipe their asses for them.

 

Many private schools will take children with learning disabilities and many private schools and better funded public schools have programs to help them. Learning disabilities as well as physical illness that can contribute to poor cognition such as asthma are also more common among the impoverished. Environmental contaminants, poor quality food, stressful home life, etc.. All created by poverty, discrimination, and hopelessness. Families tend to fracture under those conditions. Which is one good reason no one should have to live in them.

And when whether you can get a job or not may depend on the name your mother gave you (see the link to the study I posted earlier) it isn't about community responsibility. It is about the responsibility of the culture as a whole to change.

 

Many private schools -- is a concept different from ALL private schools and -- gasp! -- even from MOST private schools. Unless we are talking about franchise operations or religious affiliated private school chains they are all different in how they are set up and in what they will or will not do for or with their student populations and they even vary (vastly so) in quality . . . some being just as bad in fact as any typical public school. Private simply means private and does not automatically mean better. It does not, in fact, even mean . . . more money per student and it damn well DOES NOT mean more money per teacher.

About the only thing consistently true in regards to most private schools is that they do generally have smaller class room situations . . . but thats mostly because only so many parents in the real world are willing to pay public school taxes PLUS private school tuition for nearly two decades per child. So no, most private schools DO NOT have specialized programs for the learning impaired and nor do most of them give a flying flipping fart in a wind storm about such things.

As for the rest of the tired old and recycled leftwing propaganda bullet points that have been endlessly debunked on countless political forums across this nation for many years now . . . personal responsibility and community responsibility -- concepts alien to the leftwing philosophy is a far better bet than just endlessly throwing money into the air and seeing if that sort of thing magically changes conditions in such areas . . . because it never does. Oh and by the way personal and community responsibility IS also CULTURAL responsibility. Liberalism promotes learned helplessness among its targeted v-i-c-t-i-m-s.

 

You were doing so well, until you brought out the propaganda. Children living in poverty, eating substandard food and/or going hungry, and being poorly educated in terrible schools should take personal responsibility for themselves and grow up to be well-educated, high achieving adults, huh? Well let me get right over to the nearest trailer park and then head to the closest project to round up the five year-olds and explain that to them, shall I?

While I'm at it, I'll make sure to tell any of them who don't have white sounding names to get those legally changed so they won't face hiring discrimination before they even show up for an interview.

 

Again this entire argument is bull(*)(*)(*)(*). You are basing it upon anecdotal experience and a study that was performed in the late 80's, early 90's for a three year period, used a small sample size and ONLY included information from one SMALL area in one town in ohio.

Here are THREE studies which used larger sample sizes, are all more recent and don't simply look at one tiny area of the country which ALL state that the findings from your inconclusive study were patently false.

http://delong.typepad.com/pdf-1.pdf

http://www.news-medical.net/news/2005/04/26/9530.aspx

http://hsmt.history.ox.ac.uk/courses_reading/undergraduate/authority_of_nature/week_8/lynn_1991.pdf

Now by ALL means please explain to me why your study which EVEN YOU admitted earlier in the thread needed more research performed for it, is more valid with a smaller sample size than these other three studies that were performed later?

I look forward to your refutation of my sources.

Btw if it's poverty causing this stuff then how do poor white kids perform so much better than their poor black counterparts?

 

While I'm checking out your links here are reasons poor white kids might perform better:

1. They're poor, but they're still less poor than their non-white counterparts. This isn't based on one study alone. It's well known that the poorest areas are African American and those areas were created during segregation. It even affects access to healthcare, and if a child isn't healthy, how will that child learn as well as one who is healthy?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1497358/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1449164/

2. Employers are obviously not immune to stereotyping and then acting based on their stereotyping (see my link on employment) therefore why should we expect teachers to be immune? Which means some non-white students might not be getting as good of an education as white students even when they are in the same classrooms. This issue is already known to exist for gender.

 

That first link is one of the most completely ridiculous, absurd things I've ever read. I blames everything, EVERY ill of the black population on white people and churches. Give me a (*)(*)(*)(*)ing break.

It makes the assertion that black people live with other black people because of this MASSIVE conspiracy that includes the government, white people, churches, land owners, renters, employers, businesses, nonprofits, hospitals, schools, the military, the justice system and essentially EVERY SINGLE American cultural, governmental and societal organization that are all colluding with one another to keep the black man down.

I couldn't read the second report because your link is broken however in reading the first report the report does not place ANY blame on black people for ANY activities that they do. It COMPLETELY ignores personal responsibility and places complete, total 100% of all problems in the black community on racism and white people.

 

White people have been "civilized" a very long time while black people (decedents of slaves) were pulled out of the jungle and tribes just a few short generations ago. It is possible that many of them retain a jungle instinct.

 

Here is another one.

http://www.sullivan-county.com/racism/poverty_crime.htm

 

I don't know why you're upset with me all of a sudden. I've been arguing all along that environment is what causes higher crime rates irrespective of race, you argue race causes higher crime rates. As part of my argument, I've cited both the effects of poverty and of prejudice on communities. Racism is part of our past and still lingers in the present, as shown by the hiring study I quoted. Segregation is part of our past and its effects linger in our present, hence, inner city neighborhoods that are predominantly non-white. In fact, there is no reason to think housing segregation doesn't continue to this day even though it isn't legal. Illegal discrimination in hiring continues, so why not housing? Education? Discrimination and poverty are intertwined and I argue discrimination makes non-white poverty more severe and more difficult to escape.

 

Why am I angry? Because I'm literally sick to my stomach from hearing all the excuses people like you make for the black community and your disturbing attempts to blame EVERYTHING on whitey.

Let me put it like this. Out of all of the problems with black culture from drugs, welfare mentality, gang mentality, violent behavior, single parent homes, etc etc.

Is ANY of it their fault or is it ALL the fault of those evil racist white people?

Furthermore, reconcile your position with the fact that these numbers are true REGARDLESS of what country you choose. Your assertion is that poverty causes these problems and of course black people do not live in poverty because of their own doing. They, of course, live in poverty because of the abject discrimination, segregation and outright blatant racism perpetrated on blacks by the white community.

You are essentially blaming everything on white people and the policies set forth by those racist white people in this country. But one of your biggest problems come in when you recognize that these statistics are true all over the world regardless of the country or the policies undertaken by that country. So why is that? Now it's not just a massive conspiracy by the white man to keep blacks down in America but it's a world-wide conspiracy by racist whitey?

Gee I wonder why that pisses me off? Not only are white people responsible for their own actions because of course you folks don't make excuses for white people. But now we have to be responsible for the actions of minorities too and when those minorities (*)(*)(*)(*) up and kill someone or rape someone... That's our fault too.

But oh let that minority do something good and right and they did so in SPITE of white people. If you're going to make us responsible for the bad actions of black people you could at least give us the credit when they do something good. But nooooooo

 

Actually it was a worldwide effort, it was called colonialism. No need for the word conspiracy, European nations were quite open about it. The US continues resource wars today that are extensions of colonialism.

As for our internal problems, actually unbridled capitalism that permits power (including political power) and resources to be held by a tiny percentage of the population is what causes poverty. However, due to the aforementioned colonialism, many non-whites were shut out of the early stages of this consolidation and put into worse poverty than whites of relative social standing, and that continuing effects of this and continuing racism makes escaping poverty more difficult and makes the levels of poverty deeper.

I'm not here to play one race against the other. Far from it. It's a disgrace for anyone to have to live in poverty. And I have argued all along that it leads to more crime, including violent crime, because after all, what do the poor have to lose?

 

Wtf does colonialism have to do with the actions of blacks in japan or Norway or Canada or Korea where blacks are also overrepresented in regards to violent crime?

And wtf does colonialism from the 18th century have to do with black men committing absurdly high rates of violent rape today?

Hell I still want to know what poverty has to do with forcible rape anyway.

 

Assuming this is true, what makes you think blacks have equal standing with everyone else in Japan, Norway, Canada, and Korea in regards to political, economic, and social power? Where you find poverty, there you find crime. The only exception is when everyone is equally poor. The wider the gap in a society between rich and poor, the more crime. And the crimes will be committed by the poor. Except for those crimes which the rich commit, those receive winks and nudges and are often called by names such as 'war' and 'commerce'.

 

And what makes you think they don't? I mean other than your agenda which won't allow you to blame black people for anything.

BTW it's extremely insulting for you to continue to blame poverty and the poor. I know many many poor people who do not rob, rape and murder people. Poverty does not make you do those things

People do those things because they are pieces of (*)(*)(*)(*). Being poor does not cause you to rape steal or murder. Being a piece of (*)(*)(*)(*) does. It just so happens there's a far higher ratio of pieces of (*)(*)(*)(*) to good people in the black community than there are in other races.

 

It isn't just the poor. I of know of plenty of rich people who rob, rape, and murder, too. Or rather, they send soldiers and contractors to do it for them to get what they want. Or they open sweatshops and build pipelines in countries run by dictators who rob, rape, and murder, then prop up those dictators to get what they want.

Humans are vicious given the right circumstances (or perhaps I should say the wrong ones). It's not skin color specific. It's down to upbringing, culture, and personality. And personalities aren't skin color specific, or I've seen no evidence yet to convince me that they are. But as I said many many pages ago, or maybe it was in another thread, if I were going to argue that negative personality traits such as violence were skin color specific, I'd start with Europeans as Exhibit A.

 

Well of course you would, you blame everything on white people. To hell with statistics that say otherwise. Not sure why this would be any different.

Nice way to completely ignore the point though. The point is that there are many many people who live in poverty that do not rob rape or murder yet according to your position they should because they are poor.

 

I never tried to say poverty makes all individuals violent. Merely that it doesn't make some violent and some not based on the color of their skin.

 

See this is a false equivalency. NOBODY is claiming that the pigment n their skin makes them be more violent. The claim is that different races of humans evolved differently. That is evidenced by many things including their skin color. However ONE of the differences is that black people have evolved to be far more aggressive and violent than other groups. This is shown to be true by all the evidence.

And since you say poverty doesn't make all individuals violent, just some. Then there has to be something other than poverty causing it. So what is it?

 

Sigh! Studies done by liberals with Politically Correct outcomes guaranteed before the study even commences. In my youth in Texas, even when I was still considered non-White, I had no trouble getting jobs simply because I dressed and acted in a presentable and respectful manner . . . oh . . . and despite my brown skin tone I had bothered to study and learn while in school. Fancy that!

 

most of black America has rendered itself a joke.
no one expects much from blacks anymore except bad things.

 

I don't think a race can render itself a joke because races are full of people and people are individuals.

I do, however, believe that a poster can render himself a joke.