What if Jesus was a satanic agent?

So, by default Jesus is considered divine and godly in the Christian religion.

But what if Jesus was an agent of dark forces?
What if the mission of Jesus was to make people weak and weaklings? Turn the other cheek, forgive 70x7 times, love your enemies instead of killing them, etc.
Are Christian supposed to bend and take it while becoming the laughing stock of the world? Suffer in this world and be well in the other.
Being a docile sheep doesn't help much when interview by a wolf.
Being taking advantage of because you are supposed to be good doesn't bode well with me. But that is exactly what Christianity teaches.
Today's libs and hippies are probably descendants of Jesus. Tolerate this, tolerate that. Love first. Don't judge, God will judge that travestite, don't you dare judge him. Treat people like you wanna be treated, even if they are thugs and demons in flesh. Don't shun people just because they are from a different religion. In fact, better wash their feet.
The joke is, Christianity has never been applied in real life more than now. Never in the history of the world. And never so close to it's demise.
Oh, and last but not least - confession. What a clever way of knowing who did what. Just trick them sheep into confession and you have all the social control. Right?

So I wonder, may be the mission of Jesus (in the Christian doctrine) was to make us weak and passive with all those teachings? To be sitting ducks and "easy pray"? Huh?

 

So I see this seems too radical for many. That's OK, nobody expected otherwise.

But think about it - if you were to demoralize your enemy, what would you do? Probably send them whisky and wine to drink, play them entertainment movies, some weed may be...
That's exactly what Christianity does - turn people into docile, sitting ducks.

The main reason Christianity was "successful" in the West is that people, especially the ruling class, didn't take it very seriously. Thank GOD for that! Imagine a 12 century judge who instead of hanging a bunch of thugs goes "Thou shall not pass judgement" and let's them go. Just imagine the chaos and anarchy that would ensue!

Christianity was born 300 years after Jesus' death. May be it is time for it to die. If we wanna survive in this world that is.
If we believe the end of the world (and time) is coming, then everything is OK - the world will be destroyed and Christianity wins.

 

I mean, he is one of only two characters in the Bible who are referred to as "Lucifer." And I think early Gnostics associated Jesus with the serpent in the Garden of Eden.

 

Good observation, yardmeat.

 

There is no good without evil and vice versa.

Being a good and obeying Christian almost guaranties ones quick departure of "this word". Because the moral bar of Christianity is ridiculously high. Turning the other cheek, loving your enemy when you want to blow his head off, giving all you wealth away and following Jesus... that kind of stuff.

There is no eternal life without martyrdom, I guess.

 

I mean the Roman Empire went from being a bunch of blood thirsty soldiers expanding the empire based on the myth of two warriors suckled by wolves who kidnapped their wives. Then Jesus comes along and has people turning the other cheek and recognizing a higher authority than the Emperor.

 

Wut? As I remember no Emperor canceled the Roman Pantheon with all the Jupiters and Venuses.
Christianity is goodness exaggerated to masochism.

 

It would nice if any of these threads were ever started by people who have actually read the NT. Maybe they wouldn't immediately get sucked through a warp gate into Stupidovania.

 

They have read the NT. Several times to be exact.
I didn't made anything up in my "allegations".

Christianity is a deeply pessimistic ideology. Because despite of preaching a very high ethics (too high for my liking) and "the good news", it predicts that nevertheless the world would degrade to a mess called "the end of times". That mess includes apostasy, abomination (that leads to desolation), Armageddon, Antichrist, "mark of the beast", "wars and rumors of wars", etc, etc.
In other words, the ethics of Christianity, despite all the efforts, is bound to fail creating a civilized and moral society.
Here, refresh your memory:

 

Oh yeah, once Constantine came along it was all down hill for the traditional gods. Followers of the Roman Pantheon became known as “Pagans”or country folk as we might call them today. In the year 380 Theodosius issued the edict of Thessalonica that declared the Trinitarian version of Christianity as the official religion of Rome. The eternal flame of Vespa was extinguished in 391 and Rome was sacked 5 years later This flame was said to have been burning for 800 years or more and the myth was that as long as the flame burned Rome would be safe but if it was extinguished the goddess would withdraw her protection.

From then onward, the city of Rome gets sacked multiple times falling into greater and greater disrepair, its monuments and great temples fall to ruin because no Emperor wants to re-establish Pagan buildings. As the Western Roman Empire collapses, Constantinople rises to become the new seat of Power with all new monuments and buildings dedicated to Christianity, not the least of Which is the Hagia Sophia.

I was really joking when I said this was Christianity’s fault though. It used to be a prevailing theory when study of Ancient Rome was new but no one buys that these days.

 

FAke news, just more evidence you never read it, probably just found some isolated verses you like and parrot those with no context or understanding.

 

Right.
May you can explain - if Christianity is so great as a daily ethics, why do we have to come to the Tribulation anyway? I hope you won't deny there is a Tribulation coming according to Christian script and scripture, huh?

 

Both the Old and New Testament were written by people taking a mish mash of oral and written rules and parables. None of these parables are first hand written.

These parables were created to explain values the society of the writers wanted their fellow members to follow. These lessons through story examples were re-translated from Armaic and ancient Hebrew into Greek and Roman which necessarily would have caused distortion. The parables themselves would have edited from the original sources and reflect the biases of the editor not to mention the desired politics and biases of the day they were written.

We know in the case of the New Testament the primary reason to put Christianity into written form was precisely because when it was not written down, it multiplied as a secret underground belief system constantly changing in meaning depending on who was using it to challenge the Roman governments of the day who reflected Pagan beliefs. To prevent a civil war between Pagans and Christians, Connstantine ordered the two belief systems merged into one complete with a built in institution that would enable Constantine to spy directly on Christians intimately (the confession ritual).

The pagan fusion with Christianity has many examples. The most obvious was the creation of a human sent to earth to save the world. That theme was in fact far from original and presented in numerous pagan faith belief systems,

In original Christianity Jesus was not referred to as THE son of God and references to him were of a human teaching he and all of us were sons and daughters of God, i.e., all of us chose to come to the material world in our physical bodies to find meaning from experiencing the constant conflict between good and evil, perfect and imperfect, nothing and everything. It was in this constant paradox of the extremes clashing we created meaning and even life from our own bodies. The entire life formula was to take thesis and anti-thesis, clash, then somehow from that battle a synthesis of the two would emerge, neither one or the other, but perfectly balanced.

We in fact chose to experience on our individual basis, the same phenomena "God" did when it created. God was not a human. God was a physics formula where all things that were, are and will be occur simultaneously and so because of that are also sheer nothingness as well as sheer totality. From this paradox of the origins of life forms as we know them, came a desire for particles of this thing to leave it so they could experience outside the state of perfection and therefore no challenges, what it would feel like to create another paradox like the one this "God" was. the particles of God were sent on free flight fueled by their own independent right to choose and free will to experience what it was like to create. To do this we would need to engage in never ending infinite conflict with our equal parts negative and positive. That clash not only fuels our constant never ending journey which constantly mutates with new shape from meaning as each time we learn to reconcile the extremes of value in things.

Like this God who was a paradox of everything and therefore nothing-we too would feel that and in that sense learn perfection but necessarily with that lesson learn imperfection. To learn joy we must experience sorrow, with pleasure we can not experience it unless we also know pain and so on.

The God of Judaism when referred to in the Kabbalah was not that different than how the ancestors of the Hindus and Bhuddists and Taoists define perfection-its an open ended concept that our brains can not conceive. The closest we can explain it is to say it is like a fractal equation. It never ends in shape, meaning, and no one knows the beginnings and ends of it. It constantly chnges shape and the more dimensions we look at the more possible shapes of meaning it has.

There was no mention of any human needing a human liaison to help then connect to "God". God was an abstract reference to where life energy comes from and where its going. We simply know its infinite in journey and constantly mutates.

Jesus was a pagan concept fused into Christianity to make it easier to understand this God. Ironically I agree with you Christianity became a very negative faith. It was supposed to be a simple path where people practiced the golden rule or what we Jews and Jesus taught was teekam olem-i.e., each time we do something positive expecting nothing in return we heal the world and when we take from the world in a negative way we injure it. We are supposed to understand all life is connected and each and every choice we make can hurt or harm not just ourselves but all other life connected to us.

It is when we ignore how the consequences of our actions can hurt and harm other life forms we are said to become spiritually imbalanced and destined by the rules of universality to have to balance by undoing the harm we did, before we can experience new meaning and therefore be able to move on to the next lesson.

In that sense Jesus was merely a Rabbia warning he was no different than anyone else and each one of us was born to save and heal life and that we are all both potential saviors and healers or demons that destroy and harm-analogies for how we balance our negative and positive essences.

Jesus as a vehicle or creation to understand God by being a human and God at the same time was created because Pagans it was felt could not grasp the abstract concept that God is us individually as well as collectively and in that sense we are all Gods creating universes and feel individual and alone but are at the same time part of a simultaneous ever connected movement to create meaning of many particles of life.

We can't see that connection in our current material dimension because we chose to engage in a lesson by deliberately and for this lifetime disconnect. We wanted to see if we could on our own individual level reconnect without being able to feel that connection until we came to learn it through our pain of feeling alone.

Christians were given a script where the Jesus symbol probably was created not only to make it easier for Pagans but to be used politically as a symbol to control people. Ironically the very reason for the teachings of Jesus would have been to rebel from religion using institutional structure to control and tell people how they must think. Jesus emulated a very real Talmudic (Jewish laws) principle that taught Jews we as humans are imperfect and so anyone of us must be challenged. The Talmud was a set of codes to teach us to never accept one fixed meaning. Any sentence in the Bible is subject to continual debate and new meanings or applications.

The Old Testament has infinite layers of meaning no one fixed meaning.

For me and others we reconcile Christianity and Judaism saying the lessons of Jesus were lessons from the Old Testament and the Talmud. We do not take any meaning literally. Every passage is seen as an allegory. If one wishes to see Jesus as the only way to believe in God then that is their individual belief. Many of us do not interpret anything any human has done as divine but necessarily imperfect.

 

So now you need to change the subject. I know.

 

Another long and rambling hodge podge of pseudo-intellectual sophistry. Another one who has never read it and has no clue whatsoever of the literary structures and references in the NT.

 

Constantine converted Rome to Christianity didn't he? And therefore seemingly by definition that means he cancelled all of the former Greek/Roman Gods, eh?

 

Fundamentally regarding the words to be found in the NT, I wholeheartedly agree with your take on it. It is an egregiously ascetic tome, the NT. So much so that it makes stoicism look like hedonism by comparison. Its admonishments concerning wealth and everything that accompanies it in favor of being dirt poor for its post-mortem benefits is simply ridiculous.

Perhaps one reason why Joel Osteen is so popular - his version allows folks to drive their Bently's through the eye of that needle right on up to a reserved parking spot next to King Solomon's.

However, in practice, my observation is that currently among the greatest threats to Western Civilization are the campaigns born of right wing political affiliations with right wing "Christians" composed with a heavy handed dose of do as I say, not as I do hypocritical bullshit. So, here we part ways in our agreement.

Folks can bow up all they want over the marginal impact of non-trans boys posing as trans boys as girls competing in sports. I agree it's ridiculous and a bit of an insult to actual trans boys and girls. Trans is a thing though. An actual condition. There are chicks that have dicks and dudes that have clits. I had a buddy in elementary school that was a dude trapped in a chic's body. It was obvious to all of us and painfully so to him.

Certainly such allowances as consideration for other's preferred sexual relationships as being of no importance are not limited to liberals or hippies. I would think that fundamentally it would fall under a conservative and libertarian mindset as well. Not my business - have at it.

Ah, but your boy is pretending to be a girl and robbing my daughter of an SI cover for his brave trans announcement. Yeah, pathetic that was, but in terms of real impacts upon individual lives it compares exactly how much to the reversal of RvW in the US?

German, aren't you? Germany is not subject to this sort of evangelical right wing fascist health care intrusion between a woman and her doctor these days, is it?

 

Well, no, because there's no evidence of Satan or God, and Christianity is obviously just stupid bullshit that was made up and makes no sense at all. There is some merit to the moral teachings of Jesus. Though ultimately compassion must be tempered by strength or else one just gets preyed upon.

 

Look who's talking. Another "fake news". Like the one that I have never read the NT.
And I didn't change the subject, just forgot to mention it, the Tribulation, among the other atrocities that the god of Christianity has prepared for us (the Apocalypse and so on). It's just that I'm not happy about it, to put it mildly.

 

what if the burning Bush was really Satan?

 

Perhaps if you just stopped/changed your thinking about it you would be happier. Seems like a self inflicted problem you have going on.

 

You do not know what I have and not have read. You assume because I do not agree with your interpretation of the NT that I have not read it. Period. Lol I do not doubt that anything outside your rigid stereotypes seems pseudo-intellectual. Its annoying isn't it when people don't agree with you. Lol. Imagine if I came to your door and started preaching what I did and then told you that you were going to hell for not agreeing with it. Lol.

 

The thread was started to generate a discussion. I love it how some take up the challenge and others panic and try shut it down by using the assumption that if it did not tell the reader what he wanted to hear the thread starter or others have not read the NT. Lol. All religious debates sooner or later come down to people expressing subjective opinions of what they think religion and specific values people have mean to them.

In this exercise we see supposed people who follow Christianity showing how they use their religion to be intolerant of others.

I love annoying righteous people. To all the superior NT readers, lol, go preach. Me too. We all can go door to door preaching. Its a luxury we take for granted. In most countries no one preaches. They get shot at or deal with basics like where to get food and water.

Now excuse me while I chase a life particle.

 

If doing good is evil, is it also foolish to be wise? From my perspective, Jesus taught them how to be godly and civilized. But they had rather dominate their enemies than serve their God. Which is likely how they wound up in subjection. So they made an enemy of God, and crucified him, resulting in their dissolution as a nation and being scattered to the earth. Then about two thousand years later thru curious circumstance, Israel was restored from the earth to their ancient homeland. Israel was, then it wasn't, now it is again. How does that happen? Is it all a contrivance? The more I look at it, the more it appears to me that all the nations and history of the earth and mankind revolves around the Jews, their God, and Jesus Christ in one form or another. Even the great United States could not exist in spirit were it not for the God and Son of God of the Jews. We revolve around the concept of equality in the God of the Jews like the earth around the sun. He is central to it and all that we know because he is all that there is. Everyone knows it. But they pretend not to see. They say show us God and we will believe. But what's to believe in seeing when we already know without it? Why seek justice not seen. Or look to the tree for fruit in season.

 

Oh, it's very clear what you haven't read, period. Quit pissing on our legs and trying to tell us it's raining. You don't intimidate anybody with long idiotic screeds based on BS.