What if Jesus was a satanic agent?

You have repeated it yourself, that his name is holy. I know his spirit by his spirits knowledge of me. And yes he is holy. How do I know him? I recognized and remembered him when he came. How else is one to know that God is God? Our relationship is informal. It is not on my lips, but in my heart. So I speak the truth.

 

I repeated the words of Jesus ... "Hallowed be thy Name" - hoping you would attach some importance to those words .. and realize that contrary to your claims about knowing the various spirits of these God's on a personal basis - such that you can distinguish one from the other - concurrent with claims of having the ability to outsmart Chief God over the Earth with great Godly powers .. in particular those of deception .. for is it not written "Do not Test the Spirits" ? - If you don't know the name of the God with which you are conversing .. then you know naught that God. This is the Rule not a time to act cool and play the.... Ffiddle

 

Recall also Jesus beat the money changers out of the temple with a flail and had his disciples arm themselves with swords before following Him to the garden where he was going to be arrested.

I think in general terms, yes, Jesus wants us to be peaceful and forgiving. But there also still seems to be a time for war.

 

Jesus's doctrine presumes the constant watch and power of God. Obviously it would not be a good idea to avoid taking action if God could not be trusted to maintain things.

In addition, Christianity (or at least traditional understandings of Christianity) is not totally against the use of self-defense. You will find plenty of Christians in the U.S. (especially in the Southern Baptist tradition) who carry around guns with them, to be prepared in the unlikely event they might have to use it.

Turning the other cheek does not necessarily mean allowing innocent people to die, or even allowing very serious damage to be done. It does mean there is some self-sacrifice on the part of the person turning the other cheek.

Where precisely that line is to be drawn is not completely delineated, and could be open to plenty of interpretation.

If you are curious, the traditional doctrine of the Catholic Church is that you are justified in killing someone else who is attacking you if it will save your own life, that such an action can still be seen as virtuous. But in some situations it could be even more virtuous (though kind of optional) to sacrifice your own life so that that person will not immediately die and have a chance for their soul to be saved.

 

If Jesus was divine - and I don't believe he was - then according to Jewish belief Jesus father was Yahweh. The problem is that Yahweh was a son of the god El. given to look after Israel.

 

I agree. I think the Christian interpretation of Satan as an enemy of God comes from Matthews fanciful 'temptation' story of Jesus. In fact all Jews believe they are tested but Christianity sees 'testing' as a 'temptation'. It also uses the book of Job as an example but the book of Job is simply a story written discussing as to why the righteous should suffer. There was no Job. The same discussion is put forward centuries earlier
The Ludlul-Bel-Nemeqi (c. 1700 BCE) is a Sumerian and later Babylonian poem on the theme of unjust suffering, which is thought to have influenced the biblical Book of Job.

 

From my perspective and understanding, God is perfect and eternal. He has innumerable spiritual offspring in eternity. He conceived in his heart to share his status with his offspring as an inheritance. To do so, they must acquire physical bodies. So the Father, thru his Son Jesus Christ created all that is, that we might have bodies as a right of passage to eternal glory. It was also decided in heavenly committee that Jesus would be the savior. So he left his place of glory with the Father, and took upon himself flesh and lived like us. He put away is glory, honor, dignity and all that goes with being at the right hand of the Father. And suffered all manner of indignity, going below all things, and by his resurrection he overcame all things.

At any rate, the Fathers first intention was to bless us with an inheritance in godhood. Then thru his Son Jesus Christ, he set aside his throne and kingdom to come down and save us from our failures. So even with all glory he thought to bless us. That is large. Then he put away all of his place to retrieve us. Who does such things? It is magnificent. That's why I say that in his heart, God is a good person, for his consideration in the first instance, and his sacrifice of glory and life itself in the final instance. Mankind could not have a better God.

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to say except to call me a liar. So I will quote the spirit: "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." Revelation 3 20
And Jesus Christ said: "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
I and my Father are one." John 10 27-30

So tell me Gif, what is lacking in the words of the spirit and of Jesus Christ. Do they lie and rob understanding?

 

And God told you all this? I have yet to see signs that Jesus was anything but a human Jewish preacher. The OT tells us that God is a good person? Massacres all at Gods commands. Innocent children killed at Gods command. While David and Bathsheba had an illegitimate child - the child had to die for their sin? What book have you been reading?

 

You mean Jesus Christ, I presume? "The Spirit" aka "The Holy Ghost" is somewhat different from Jesus Christ (aka The son of God, aka The son of man), according to Church doctrine, as far as I know. The Holy Trinity, you know?

 

I don't criticize God. Even a pretty woman has the appearance of flaws. But that doesn't make it evil if it is Gods will. Seeing that everyone sins, I think you're taking Gods charity for granted.

 

Seeing that the spirit testifies of God. And that the Father and Son are one. Then there is no difference in spirit to me.

 

If they were ONE, they wouldn't be different (Father, Holy Ghost and Jesus).
If we were one with you, we wouldn't be different. But we are. Because we are not homogeneous ONE.

 

One in purpose and spirit.

 

If it was gods will for them to commit adultery then why should the child die?

 

I'm not familiar with the story. But it stands to reason that adultery isn't Gods will. If a child's death is Gods will, then so be it. Are you criticizing God or Jewish justice?

 

So, you imply that Spirit is just another word for God, is that right?

 

The baby has done no wrong but god allows it to die despite Davids pleading for the life of the child. Who do you think should be criticised?

 

In my experience, if it is Gods spirit, yes. It is as the presence of God.

 

Why should anyone be criticized. If it is a story from long ago, then be it as it may. Why is it written?

 

Isn't that rather avoiding the question?

 

Your words are testament to your articles of faith belief so on a basic level of courtesy I acknowledge them as sacred to you. For me I do not disagree with you and respect where you walk and what path you choose.

I just say yours for me, with great humility is one of an infinite numbers of possible ways we humans try explain "God" or the thing behind all things.

I see no one way to attempt to grasp at such a concept but I think whatever we humans construct in faith belief, its just us, humans doing the construction.

This thing many call "God" and using Jesus or any other figurehead or concept to facilitate understanding it I get. I do not seek to insult you or anyone simply walk beside you. Whatever gives you meaning and helps you be a better spiritual being I respect. I am an idiot limited to subjective opinions but I express them for the sake of thought and debate not righteousness. All that matters is I may not worship in your Temple but I would help you clean it if asked and defend you from hatred for believing what you do if it makes you a caring person.

For me personally "God" is a human word. I do not believe the concept we call "God" can be described by any construct made by a human and find any word used inaccurate.

The closest I believe to understanding it is what we call a paradox. It is all things that were, are and can be and so necessarily as it is all things that were/are/will be necessarily is also NOTHING as well.

ABSOLUTELY everything = ABSOLUTELY nothing.

Our brains can't grasp the above equation. It is a paradox in our current material form we can not see and in fact I would speculate we all as individuals may have chosen to be born in our current material states so we would be blind to it and have to challenge ourselves to come to the above equation by detaching from it in this materially distorted state which then forced us to create the realization of it and in so doing create life as part of an eternal process of life creating life so we can learn what it is like to create life nut just live life through the creation of new understandings.

I believe the life creating exercises we choose are infinite. Each new understanding gives birth to life/meaning.

I do not wish to go back and reunify with whence I came. The struggle and pain for me is necessary to create meaning and life.

Trying to grasp the vision of this so called God and what we call life is like trying to find a beginning or end to any fractal design:



It can not be done because one can not define where anything begins or ends in the vision-it takes on infinite paths and so sides or edges where things begin or end.



Some people stare at the above and it overwhelms them in being infinite in its design and so I believe we then based on neurotic anxiety create formulas to make it easier to grasp this design. For me religion is a neurotic tic, a twitch, an obsessive compulsive ritual triggered by existential anghst.

I also personally find the Bible to be full of plagiarism from such sources as:

Pandora's Box
The Epic of Gilgamesh

How is the story of Jesus any different than the myths about Horus, Mithras, Attis, Krishna, Dionysus?

Is it coincidence for example Horus were born on December 25 and that Horus’ mother, Isis, was a virgin.

Is it coincidence Adonis, Tammuz, Osiris and Dionysus died and were then resurrected?

The stories told about Osiris-Dionysus I would argue were taken from Pagan myths and injected into the scriptures of the New Testament to fuse Paganism and Christianity to prevent a civil war.

Osiris was the Son of God said to be born to a virgin on the 25th of December before three shepherds...and it does not stop there. Osiris was a prophet who offered his followers the chance to be born again through the rites of baptism...and he too performed miracles including raising the dead and turning water into wine at a marriage ceremony. He too was said to be God incarnate who died at Easter, salso through crucifixion and who was then resurrected on the third day after he died. He too was referred to as a savior who provided his followers redemption through partaking in a meal of bread and wine, symbolic of his body and blood.

The Jesus story is Osiris's story and it attempts to fuse it with the Jewish myth of the Messiah and as I earlier explained in Judaism the Messiah was a human not divine and he was supposed to return but no one knew or knows when.

I myself read and so when I see plagiarism I do not ignore what is plagiarized. I also do not think the Messiah is a person but is symbolic of the continuing hope that any human born can save the world through positive deeds.

 

More like saying you can ask the questions as you and I do or use it another way.

The best analogy I can explain is both Injeun and you cooked for me. Oh hell I ate both of what you served up.

I just have to make sure I do not pass gas in your presence (might be too late given my previous responses...sorry). Religion makes me do that if I swallow it too quickly lol.

 

It was a leading question based on a supposition of wrongdoing and the call to judgment. It doesn't make sense that scriptures written for our edification and the honor of God should be interpreted to fault God. God isn't man that he should be faulted or judged by man.....or not by me anyway. God is holy, I am not. He is my life, I'm not his. I am due to him, not he to me. Even my very power to choose is his endowment. Shall I not choose him.