What the policing response to the KKK in the 1960s can teach about dismantling white supremacists...

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Space_Time, Mar 4, 2021.

  1. Space_Time

    Space_Time Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2015
    Messages:
    8,694
    Likes Received:
    1,293
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This seems like 'aggressive policing for me but not for thee'. Going after the Klan was the right thing to do in the 1960's (which it was) but not the Left in spite of the violence it caused. What implications does that have for our time:
     
  2. Darthcervantes

    Darthcervantes Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2018
    Messages:
    5,370
    Likes Received:
    5,519
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Well hopefully they can catch the 100 or so white supremacists left in the country.
    Quite sad you have to travel back to the 60s for this though. Are you guys so hung up on race there aren't enough NEW events for you to cover?
     
    ButterBalls, Libhater and roorooroo like this.
  3. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    43,706
    Likes Received:
    10,907
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Meh one man's activist is another man's racist asshat. They biggest problem they we'll is actually finding some white supremacists. Then again the left seems to operate under the assumption that any one who voted for Trump is a white supremacist even if they are blacker than the ace of spades.
     
    Libhater and roorooroo like this.
  4. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2011
    Messages:
    24,738
    Likes Received:
    1,738
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    It basically is. The state can target different groups it demean a security threat. The big problem is going to be 1.) to what extent will they have political support from the political parties? 2.) how do we make sure that they don't end up going quiet and infiltrating the police and LEOs that are investigating them?
     
  5. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2011
    Messages:
    24,738
    Likes Received:
    1,738
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    While you're not wrong that this is kinda blown out of proportion, we need to deal with it now. The strategy of ignoring them and hoping they go away isn't working. We have to turn to prosecution and tracking of these groups now. We're seeing a shift from terrorism to more organized acts of violence. 1/6 was not an anomaly and was the result of long standing issues with dealing with right wing extremism.
     
  6. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    121,278
    Likes Received:
    25,498
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Which groups are talking about? ALL groups that engage in this type of violence or just those deemed "white supremist"?
     
    ButterBalls and roorooroo like this.
  7. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2011
    Messages:
    24,738
    Likes Received:
    1,738
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    I’m going to let you in on a little secret: I’m not worried about left wing violence because we haven’t seen much left wing terrorism this past decade. Basically riots are a very different beast than acts of terrorism and are more situational rather preplanned out. But right wing? Oh golly we’ve seen lots of that and now we’re starting to see things like more organized violence? That’s a dangerous sign for more organized violence to come. You can draw your whataboutisms from wherever you like but the fact remains: right wing extremism is way more important than any other violent extremism right now in the US.
     
    ImNotOliver likes this.
  8. liberalminority

    liberalminority Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Messages:
    25,172
    Likes Received:
    1,601
    Trophy Points:
    113
    the right wing has done nothing to the scale of the left wing

    black lives matter/china shut down states and countries

    https://www.britannica.com/place/Washington-DC
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
  9. mitchscove

    mitchscove Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2016
    Messages:
    7,157
    Likes Received:
    4,096
    Trophy Points:
    113
    John Sullivan is not a white supremacist. The thugs who changed from terrorist garb they wore when they were busy burning Portland into MAGA attire are not white supremacists.
    This is a statue of a white supremacist in the Capitol building:
    zYVUufCBksKiONq-800x450-noPad.jpg
    Here he is holding hands with likely the most bigoted President since Woodrow Wilson:
    Biden-Byrd.jpg
     
    ButterBalls and Libhater like this.
  10. mitchscove

    mitchscove Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2016
    Messages:
    7,157
    Likes Received:
    4,096
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yep, and this is a mostly peaceful protest:
    FieryButMostlyPeacefulKenosha.jpg

    The comedy forum is down the corridor to the left.
     
  11. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2011
    Messages:
    24,738
    Likes Received:
    1,738
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    This is what we call a non responsive answer ladies and gentleman. Doesn’t touch my claims, just decides to post some emotional point that “fire bad”. Do you even touch my claim that organized political violence is more severe than unorganized political violence?
     
    ImNotOliver and AZ. like this.
  12. fullmetaljack

    fullmetaljack Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2017
    Messages:
    2,805
    Likes Received:
    2,214
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    That's all the righties have when it comes to defending their pet domestic terrorists/insurrectionists : whataboutism.

    They excuse domestic terrorists because these terrorists say and do things they wish they could do themselves. Consider what the Bundy family did in 2016: they took over a federal building by force of arms and occupied it for days. Just because it was a small, isolated building in the middle of a wildlife refuge doesn't change the fact that it was a federal building. Dirty Donnie sent armed federal agents into Portland to "protect" federal buildings and didn't send any help to the Capitol when insurgents broke in.

    Clearly the right only recognizes political violence when they oppose it.
     
    ImNotOliver, Kranes56 and AZ. like this.
  13. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2019
    Messages:
    8,193
    Likes Received:
    10,767
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Hand waving and excuse making.

    Riots have done billions of dollars in damage over the last year, and it was nearly entirely driven by left wing extremism.

    That's just a simple fact, and denying it is silly.
     
  14. fullmetaljack

    fullmetaljack Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2017
    Messages:
    2,805
    Likes Received:
    2,214
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Not at all, you're just making that up.

    Don't fret, the righties were well represented at every single riot.

    That's just a simple fact, and denying it is silly.
     
    ImNotOliver and AZ. like this.
  15. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2019
    Messages:
    8,193
    Likes Received:
    10,767
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Really? White supremacists were out there protesting and rioting over George Floyd and Breonna Taylor?

    What color is the sky in this bizarro world of yours?
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
  16. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2019
    Messages:
    8,193
    Likes Received:
    10,767
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Simple questions:

    If "righties" were well represented at riots such as happened in Seattle, Portland, Minneapolis, etc... then how come righties were so underrepresented(or nonexistent) in the ranks of rioters that were arrested at these riots?

    If they were arrested for rioting, why weren't they prosecuted? Why weren't they even identified? Was the local leftists press and government covering for them? Why?

    Why were Joe Biden and Kamala Harris staffers donating money to post bail for the "well represented" right wing rioters?
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
  17. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2011
    Messages:
    24,738
    Likes Received:
    1,738
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Yeah that's exactly what makes me scared. We're seeing a rise in hate crimes, right wing terrorism and now they're organized enough to launch coup de etats? That's a very serious escalation.

    Who's denying it? Not me. I'm just telling you an important perspective. Violence is very rare and almost ironically enough not the core issue. The problem comes from convincing others that the violence is justified. You have to look at a groups organization and their level of violence. Riots are deadly and dangerous, but they're not that organized compared to preplanned attacks. Too many people not part of the core that wants violence. They have to be convinced as time goes on. Terrorism? Don't need the crowd to help, other than for intelligence and resource gathering. This tells us the level of organization of these groups. Planting a bomb at a police station? Unheard of. Planting a bomb at an abortion clinic? Yes. That's why right wing violence is so much worse than anything left wing. Your post is perfect proof of it.
     
  18. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2011
    Messages:
    24,738
    Likes Received:
    1,738
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Psst... the question you need to ask yourself is why did the police allow right wing violence? Don't have to arrest them if you agree with what they're doing.
     
  19. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2019
    Messages:
    8,193
    Likes Received:
    10,767
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    How big a rise in right wing terrorism? What are the numbers? How many victims have white supremacists claimed in the last few years? How many thousands? How much rioting damage have white supremacists done? How many billions of $?
     
  20. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2019
    Messages:
    8,193
    Likes Received:
    10,767
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    So the cops in far-left-run cities are all in cahoots with the Boogaloo Nazis in your bizarro world and that's how the righties avoid getting arrested?

    Alex Jones is impressed by that whopper.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
  21. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2008
    Messages:
    17,243
    Likes Received:
    2,772
    Trophy Points:
    113
    We have seen more left wing terrorism than right wing terrorism in the last year and it was just as reprehensible or worse.

    They did the same crap that the maga rioters did in the cpitol but were more succesful. Like most on trhe left how ever you willfully turn a blind eye to it.
     
    FatBack, ButterBalls and Libhater like this.
  22. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2008
    Messages:
    17,243
    Likes Received:
    2,772
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The left demonstrated massive ORGANIZED political violence in the form of BLM / ANTIFA this past year.
     
    ButterBalls and Libhater like this.
  23. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    43,706
    Likes Received:
    10,907
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You slept through last summer? Missed the Bernie bro trying to kill Republican law makers? Missed the assassination of more than fifty police officers?
     
  24. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2011
    Messages:
    24,738
    Likes Received:
    1,738
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    I have to get ready for work in 8 minutes. Here's the low down, if you doubt me look them up yourself.
    1. Since 2008 the number of racist organizations has dramatically increased as a direct result of Obama coming into office.
    2. Right wing terrorism has pretty much always been a bigger national security threat than even violent Islamists. We diverted precious resources away from preventing the far right and funneled it into preventing violent Islamic extremism. Though to be fair, population size does matter here to some extent.
    3. Hate crimes while always underreported, have seen a dramatic increase in recent years, including a rise in anti-semitic attacks.
    4. Attacks of terrorism have increased, specifically that of the far right. Keep in mind the difference between hate crimes and acts of terrorism is generally the level of preparedness. Hate crimes aren't preplanned.
    5. We've seen instances where the far right have mobilized, though only one of the (broadly) three different groups, namely that of the militia movement when they prevented the arrest of Amon Bundy (why do I always think it's Cliven Bundy?). Now this isn't new, the general strategy is to ignore them until they go away. But the problem is now this strategy isn't working. They have political and media coverage justifying the standoff. This spreads their message.
    6. Since 2016 we've seen other far right extremists (think Proud Boys) engage with far left demonstrators in 'street brawls', the idea being to increase the risk of protesting. While not a serious issue yet, they haven't gotten the needed attention to properly stop them.
    7. Charlottesville. The key is that they're organizing now and protesting, getting lots of media coverage.
    8. Trump getting elected encourages the far right who are inspired by him (think Stand back and stand ready).
    9. Now we add all of these things together to get to the point where the far right are attacking state capitals prior to 1/6. Ultimately of course culminating in 1/6.

    Long story short: The far right have been a serious problem for a long time but thanks to political and media coverage were able to spread their ideas radicalizing more people. A crowd like the one on 1/6 normally should prevent some of its members from being violent but the Proud Boys were able to take control of the crowd and use it to support their own interests. It's honestly amazing more people didn't die.
     
  25. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2011
    Messages:
    24,738
    Likes Received:
    1,738
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Wow. 2 whole acts of 'left wing terrorism'. Wow so many, so much, much wow. If I say it's a numbers game, then don't be like "there were some acts of left wing violence!". Get me numbers or make an actual response.
     

Share This Page