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What To Do To Stop Back-room Dealing In Politics

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Meta777, Jul 9, 2018.

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  1. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    I can't exactly disagree with you there. At least not completely...
    But I will say that the line between personal and public can tend to be a bit blurry at times.
    Perhaps not to you or me, maybe not even to the majority of people.
    But power and corruption has a habit of blinding people, or at least it seems so...
    and if we're relying on politicians to be the ones to make that determination... well...

    ...next thing you know we'll have ourselves a politician who claims he always intended to vote for x,
    that that fancy dinner he had with the lobbyist was just old class mates catching up and making off-the-cuff small-talk.
    And before you know it, you'll get folks giving away public silverware to their best friends and claiming it was a personal matter...

    Just sayin'...

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jul 14, 2018
    #51
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  2. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    BTW, I just compiled the ideas so far.
    And I didn't realize before doing it, but boy oh boy are there already a lot of ideas!
    And here I am thinking that there might not be any at all. LMAO!
    It turns out that our cups runneth over...

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...m-dealing-in-politics.537071/#post-1069320606
    Ideas so far:
    -Monitor Politicians 24/7 During Their Tenure
    -Pay Close Attention to what Politicians Do Out in the Open
    -Vote Out Politicians Who Make Too Many Bad Deals & Not Enough Good Ones
    -Shrink Government & Do Away with Political Donations
    -Get Rid of Overturn or Supersede the Citizens United Decision
    -Get Dark Money Out of Politics
    -Encourage Politicians to Vote Based on Wants & Needs of Constituents Rather than Personal Views
    -Put Restrictions on What a Politician Can Earn or Do After Leaving Office
    -Require Politicians to Wear Body Cams When Meeting With Lobbyists
    -Outlaw Professional Lobbying
    -Grant Power to Expel Congress Members for Ethics Violations to Congressional Oversight Panel of Rotating Ordinary Citizens
    -Make Political Parties Illegal
    -Establish Congressional Term Limits
    -Constitutional Amendment Eliminating Outside Money from Political Campaigns
    -Ranked Voting
    -Surveillance & Recording of all Non-personal Communications of Members of Congress
    -Reduce Bill Complexity by Requiring Bills Be Narrowly Scoped to One Topic at a Time
    -House & Senate Votes Conducted On Multiple Ideas Via Ranked Vote (Ranked Pairs)
    -House & Senate Votes Conducted On Multiple Ideas Via Ranked Vote (Instant Runoff)
    -Reduce Requirements for Forcing Bills to the Floor Via Discharge
    -Reduce Requirements for Forcing Bills to the Floor Via Discharge as a Function of Time Spent In Comity
    -Use a Ranked System (Ranked Pairs) to Elect Politicians
    -Use a Ranked System (Instant Runoff) to Elect Politicians
    -Cement Ethics Rules into Actual Law Increase Penalties & More Actively Enforce Against Violations
    -Get People to Want to be Informed
    -Adapt Athenian System & Elect Politicians by Lot
    -Decentralize Power
    ​
    BTW, I did skip a few that seemed a little too vague, and a couple that seemed like jokes, though I'm not entirely convinced the very first one wasn't a joke too... anyways, if I didn't already add your idea in please flesh it out a bit, give a few more details etc. and I'll add it in. Thanks!

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jul 14, 2018
    #52
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  3. Ndividual

    Ndividual Well-Known Member

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    We elect politicians to represent us in our Federal government.
    How often do our representatives make themselves available to their constituents to determine how they wish to be represented?
    Are they more available to constituents or lobbyists in D.C.?
    Would constituents be better represented if their representatives were required to hold town hall meetings to discuss major legislation prior to being brought to discussion/vote in Congress?
     
    Ndividual, Jul 14, 2018
    #53
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  4. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    @Meta777

    Term limits would help because the motives for these back room deals usually comes back to getting reelected. If I'm a career politician, I like the idea of quiet, private deals because I don't want my constituents to know I did it. And I don't want them to know about it because I want to get reelected. Now if I'm a member of the House, and I can only serve two 2-year terms, I'm not terribly concerned about reelection. And if I'm not concerned about reelection, my interest in trying to hide my activities from my constituents is low.

    I also support repealing the 17th Amendment, making our senators beholden only to their respective state legislators, not every Tom, Dick, and Harry from all over the country who represent interests that my state does not necessarily support. This would also take the campaign fundraising out of the Senate. There would be no need for it anymore.
     
    Seth Bullock, Jul 14, 2018
    #54
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  5. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    The House passed the $1.3 trillion omnibus spending bill, 256-167, with 145 Republicans and 111 Democrats voting “yes.” The “no” votes came from 90 Republicans and 77 Democrats.
     
    OldManOnFire, Jul 14, 2018
    #55
  6. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    You just explained the stupidity part. What's in the best interest of the USA cannot be 'what people think'. It must be analyzed and scrutinized and factualized, etc. to arrive at the SINGLE best solution for each issue/problem. This requires CONSENSUS! Having two or more people tossing out 'what they think' can never achieve consensus! This is a fundamental problem in the USA today...
     
    OldManOnFire, Jul 14, 2018
    #56
  7. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    There is absolutely nothing wrong with lobbying...
     
    OldManOnFire, Jul 14, 2018
    #57
  8. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Who cares about so-called back room dealing? Who cares if two or more Congressional members while playing poker in someone's home discusses legislation? One of the fundamental limitations Americans have today is the lack of capability to clearly and concisely define the actual problem. The PROBLEM is not people talking among themselves.

    The only thing that matters is how our representatives vote in Congress. If people don't like how their representatives vote then vote them out of office! However, this rarely happens for the right reason so what does this say about the real problem here? It says our voters are doing a horrible job...
     
    OldManOnFire, Jul 14, 2018
    #58
  9. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    How to fix it? What specifically needs to change/how in order to make things better?

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jul 14, 2018
    #59
  10. Stevew

    Stevew Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't matter. The bill wouldn't have made it out of the SENATE without dems voting for it. Over HALF of Senate (R)s voted AGAINST IT. There were only 5 or 6 Senate dems that voted against it.

    Haven't you been paying attention? Republicans haven't been able to get anything done during the Harry Reid years. McConnell took over in 2014 because of it and now the MEDIA LIES TO YOU SAYING REPUBLICANS PASSED THE BILL.

    Sheeesh!
    Steve
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018
    Stevew, Jul 14, 2018
    #60
  11. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    YOU can't make things better. It's a sign of the times issue. It's a voter issue! And there is no way to change the voter's inefficiencies. We have been falling into this abyss for some time and to get out, if at all possible, will take years/decades. Think honestly about what is going on today; We have a president who is a pathological liar, a narcissist, a dictator, ignorant of governmental affairs, disrespectful of tradition, 100% self-serving...basically a criminal and a thug. Then we have all the GOP members of Congress with their heads stuck up his ass. Lastly, 50-60 million Americans truly think he walks on water, many believe he was ordained by Gawd. And the other side of this spectrum, the blue side, is not much better...only different. Now, why does anyone need to explain why things cannot be fixed?
     
    OldManOnFire, Jul 14, 2018
    #61
  12. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/115-2018/s63
     
    OldManOnFire, Jul 14, 2018
    #62
  13. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    To me, those don't seem like reasons for why things can't be fixed,
    but explanations for exactly why things need to be fixed.

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jul 14, 2018
    #63
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  14. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes there is no fix...
     
    OldManOnFire, Jul 14, 2018
    #64
  15. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Meta777, Jul 14, 2018
    #65
    Derideo_Te likes this.
  16. logical1

    logical1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Easiest answer to the question--------------------term limits.
     
    logical1, Jul 14, 2018
    #66
  17. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Solutions which don't stand a chance of succeeding are not solutions. Another requirement of problem solving beyond clearly defining the problem is providing VIABLE solutions. The list you provide is a wish-list at best...
     
    OldManOnFire, Jul 15, 2018
    #67
  18. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Granted, not every idea in that list is going to be a magic bullet. Some might not even be good ideas at all...
    But I do believe there are more than one in there which are in fact viable, even highly promising if we were to implement them.

    At any rate, we can vote on them latter to see which among them we feel have the most potential.
    Consider the results of that vote then to be merely a starting point... a group of favored ideas which can then be tweaked as needed.

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jul 15, 2018
    #68
  19. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Oh and FYI, just in case anyone hasn't seen them yet, I've now set up threads for the Immigration Ranked Vote.
    Handling things a little different than in past votes. This time around the votes are split up into seven threads.
    Six of the threads are up and running now, so drop by if you want to vote on how immigration should be handled:

    What is the Most Important Immigration Category Needing to be Dealt With?
    How To Enact Immigration Reform? (Undocumented Immigrants & Visa Overstays)
    How To Enact Immigration Reform? (Immigrants Wishing to Immigrate Legally)
    How To Enact Immigration Reform? (Immigrants Who've Already Achieved Legal Status)
    How To Enact Immigration Reform? (Immigration Systems, Security, & Enforcement)
    How To Enact Immigration Reform? (Foreign Outreach/Other)

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jul 15, 2018
    #69
  20. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Solutions that can't be implemented also are not solutions...
     
    OldManOnFire, Jul 15, 2018
    #70
  21. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    What's that supposed to mean? Are you suggesting that none of the ideas from the list can be implemented?
    I find that hard to believe.

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jul 15, 2018
    #71
  22. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Seems like there are a few people suggesting this one.
     
    Meta777, Jul 15, 2018
    #72
  23. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Lol, if all of them are so great, then why do they make so many mistakes?
    And why do so many seem to get caught up in various corruption-related scandals?
    Perhaps the people would have a better understanding of things if more deals happened more out in the open...

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jul 15, 2018
    #73
  24. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Some good points there. The main incentives for politicians usually revolve around finding ways to stay in office, and that doesn't always align with whats actually good for the people. And we can't really place too much of the blame on politicians for this one, its really the people, the voters themselves, who are at fault for not trying more to understand better the positions that some of these politicians are in some times. Though again, I wonder if might not the people have a fuller view of things if so much of what politicians did dind't happen out of sight. Either way, who's to blame isn't really the most important thing to consider here... there have to be ways for us to shift the incentive structure around in such a way as to increase confidence in our elected leaders and produce better outcomes.

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jul 15, 2018
    #74
  25. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    No and no. 8)

    Maybe, but then I think its also somewhat important for us to also know what the deal actually is, and I think that's where some of the problem comes in. As mentioned before, stuff can get snuk into some of these deals due to their complexity... stuff that the American people likely wouldn't approve of were they to know it was there. But of course, Americans lead busy lives and don't typically have time to go digging through things.

    The ideal is that we would then elect trustworthy politicians who look over these things in our stead and could be relied on to have our backs. But the way these bills get put together (not to mention the cases of blatant dishonesty and or corruption) it seems that many have lost faith in politicians to rise to such a high standard. Perhaps more open processes or other measures could help to restore some of that faith...

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jul 15, 2018
    #75
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