What would we be (or do) without pain and suffering?

Your version is not supported by the biblical texts.

 

howya figure?

 

It is, actually. Its just not supported by the Christian establishment responsible for doling out doctrine to the masses. There are many 'unnofficial' interpretations supported by the text.

 

The Chinese Menu approach to the bible. Pick and choose only what you like and ignore all of the contradictions.

 

Let me ask you..what would you think of me if there is a dying child in front of me , dying because there’s no rain, and I had a bottle of water but I didn’t let her have even a sip...would you think me a good person? God is capable of making rain but chooses not to, right?

 

They condone the sins they don’t commit , but forgive the ones they do. I bet some even shop on the sabbath

 

Theres a lot less contradictions if you stop trying to take it all literally.

 

FoxHastings said: ↑
Here, since you can't address individual comments like everyone else, I'll make this simple:

WHY would we need medical research if there was no disease ?

That's where I thought you finally caught on to facts and logic...

BUT then out comes fantasy world.......Again, do you READ what you write ?

Uh, ya, duh, medical advancements serve to correct "medical" problems...duh, ya that 's why they call them "medical" advancements....

And we're full circle.... WHY would we need medical research if there was no disease ?

 

I would think you detatched.

Just as you are now. You obviously feel sympathy for their plight, while likely sitting within site of a nearly endless source of clean water. How many bottles did you ship to Africa today?

 

modernpaladin said: ↑
Its not just my opinion. Its the opinion of professional human behavioral and cognitive specialists who have spent their careers studying the human brain and what makes us tick, that adversity and the fight for survival in a harsh world made us what we are. See the article from HuffPo I linked a few pages back."""""
*******************************************************************************************

FoxHastings said: ↑
YES, they are studying humans who exist NOW....


IF humans had been created in the first place without pain and adversity they wouldn't need the cures....they could just paint and study the stars and sing and create beauty ...

You are so STUCK on how humans are now that you just can't accept that they COULD HAVE been made differently so the atrocities need not exist...your GOD LOVED the atrocities obviously because he , and you , think they are lovely as long as YOU don't suffer them....

NO, you haven't....you have never honestly and straightforwardly addressed things like:

""" IF humans had been created in the first place without pain and adversity they wouldn't need the cures....they could just paint and study the stars and sing and create beauty ...""""""

 

And you accuse me of a 'fantasy world'...

As I speculated before, it seems likely to me that its simply not possible for creativity and curiosity to exist in a free willed creature without some force driving those dynamics; survival in adversity forcing us to evolve, adapt, progress.

Its no more possible for God to *poof* into existance a being that maintains all these traits in a utopic environment, than it is for Him to create a mountain so big that He cannot move it.

 

modernpaladin said: ↑
Its not just my opinion. Its the opinion of professional human behavioral and cognitive specialists who have spent their careers studying the human brain and what makes us tick, that adversity and the fight for survival in a harsh world made us what we are. See the article from HuffPo I linked a few pages back."""""
*******************************************************************************************

FoxHastings said: ↑
YES, they are studying humans who exist NOW....


IF humans had been created in the first place without pain and adversity they wouldn't need the cures....they could just paint and study the stars and sing and create beauty ...

You are so STUCK on how humans are now that you just can't accept that they COULD HAVE been made differently so the atrocities need not exist...your GOD LOVED the atrocities obviously because he , and you , think they are lovely as long as YOU don't suffer them....






NO, you haven't....you have never honestly and straightforwardly addressed things like:

""" IF humans had been created in the first place without pain and adversity they wouldn't need the cures....they could just paint and study the stars and sing and create beauty ...""""""

""""atrocities obviously because he , and you , think they are lovely as long as YOU don't suffer them....""""


How enlightened did humans become after what the Jews went through in WWI ? The SAME thing happened to them in WWII.

Just a bunch of scapegoating gobbledygoop.

Why didn't your god create them that way in the first place ? You are saying he isn't that powerful, yet you contend, in your fantasy world, that he is all powerful.


Now, I think I'm done with your support of humans committing heinous atrocities on others so YOU feel good.

I was raised Catholic (and escaped quickly at a young age) and so I know, and have heard , all the EXCUSES.......the twisted logic of why Christians had to do things like TORTURE people to convert them, ( ENLIGHTEN THEM????????)


...

 

I don’t have the ability to ship water off to Africa.But if I did have magical abilities like your god supposedly has, would make it rain and they would have all the water they need so the children don’t die in agony. This God you believe in has that ability and chooses not to do it. How many bottles did you ship off today?

 

But god was able to "poof" life in one “poof”.

 

Perhaps. But I dont think thats what he did. It may have been a *poof* from His perspective presuming time is meaningless for Him, but from our perspective, I think it was Billions/Trillions of years. I believe in evolution. I think the 'spark' of life- when bubbling pools of proteins coalesced into single celled organisms -was guided and molded by God, as was the evolutionary path from then all the way up to apes and humans. As a related 'by the way', Youngs Literal Translation Bible (a direct from Hebrew to English version [for the OT] with as little presumption to meaning made as possible) does not say God created the universe. It says God 'prepared' the heavens and the earth FOR His creation (life or humans).

I think of 'creation' as the best possible description of evolution in the physical world from the spiritual perspective (God's perspective), not a *poof.*

 

I dunno, technology today is pretty darn close to magic...
https://www.aidforafrica.org/donate/ways-to-give/
I suspect that God has left the problems of our world to its new masters- us. Since we were offered absolution and blanket forgiveness from the repurcussions of violating God's Laws with the sacrifice of Christ, and the more truly Free will that comes with that, it stands to reason that we're responsible for taking care of ourselves (eachother) now.

 

The metaphorical god of the bible is no less of a sociopathic mass murderer than the literal one.

 

Seriously?

Mankind is now 100% responsible for all epidemics, earthquakes, famines, congenital diseases, etc, etc?

When did this imaginary "covenant" appear in the sky?

And what does mankind get in return for accepting 100% responsibility for your god creating all of those calamities and then dumping them on mankind now?

Absolutely nothing? Squat? Nada? Zilch?

We are still all "born sinners" condemned to spend eternity in hell even after we have had to endure the pain and suffering inflicted by your god during our lifetimes?

Sounds to me like your god is playing everyone for fools and suckers.

 

Why do you think you're going to spend eternity in hell?

 

That is your belief, not mine.

Onus is entirely on you to defend your god condemning everyone as a "born sinner" to hell and damnation.

 

Why can't Christians ever answer direct questions : How enlightened did humans become after what the Jews went through in WWI ? The SAME thing happened to them in WWII.


Can you explain where the "enlightenment" was and how it helped the Jews.......or is there some reason you don't care about this ?????

 

No, it isn't. What would prompt you to tell me what my beleifs are? Especially when Ive already stated that I believe we are free to choose our fate in that regard.

 

What you are basically saying is you do not really understand the beginning of life so you create an invisible man in the sky. The ancient Greeks couldn’t understand many things so they created many different gods to explain them.They didn’t have free will but damn that Pandora for opening the box

 

No. Im not saying 'since theres still questions, God must be the answer.' Im saying that a scientific explanation doesnt discount the role of God. Science and Spirituality are not mutually exclusive.

 

How enlightened did humans become after what the Jews went through in WWI ? The SAME thing happened to them in WWII.


Can you explain where the "enlightenment" was and how it helped the Jews.......or is there some reason you don't care about this ?????