What's missing in Trump's plan is defeating the BELIEF that drives our enemy

If you show me a specific Muslim who both follows that Hadith and interprets it's the way you do, then yes, ill condemn them.

I will not however assume that every Muslim follows that Hadith and interprets it the way you want them to and condemn all Muslims.

 

You're so predictable - that's why I BOLDED AND UNDERLINED "EDUCATED"! I can read you like a book. The Qur'an educates, the Bible educates, so there is nothing wrong (as such) with a god EDUCATING people, I think we can both agree.

So now that I've undercut your argument, can we agree that (from my post that you referenced): "if you and I were in Allah's situation, that we'd have cleared this up, educated much much better over 1400 years, so that there was much much less doubt....correct?"

 

Can you condemn any Muslim who would not answer "yes" to this question? "if, repeat if, hypothetically, Mohammad did say that Muslims will have to fight the Jews, would you condemn Mohammad for that?"

 

Those people would be free to ignore me and write what they want instead, yes?

 

People don't have to FOLLOW something to be unethical - a Nazi who has never been involved in a genocide but fully approves of HITLER'S genocide is unethical of course. Can you condemn all Muslims who approve of that hadith?

 

Yes.

 

Why should any Muslim consider your bullshit hypothetical?

Why do insist on treating all muslims as if they believe the worst possible version of Islam? You wouldn't consider it fair if someone treated all Secular Humanists as if they all believed the worst possible versionnof secular humanism.

 

If, repeat if, hypothetically, he did say that, would you condemn him as genocidal?

 

If they actually follow it and approve of it.

 

How do you know that isn't exactly what happened?

 

If he said and intended for it he interpreted exactly how you say it should be.

 

If they can't answer it then they are immoral. It's not HARD TO CONDEMN GENOCIDE, WOW! If a person can't condemn genocide when asked then they are unethical. The correct answer would be "of course I condemn Mohammad - why are you even asking me, FreedomSeeker, if I condemn genocide!?" Ahhh, but that's not their response, now is it? Go to Ummah.com and ask that question - hehe. , then you'll see what I mean!

 

Because his invisible friend won't tell us the real truth (whatever that is), we have to take him at his word - that yes, he advocated genocide of Jews, so that would make Muslims who approve of that hadith, or that sentiment, about as bad as Nazis who approved of genocide of the Jews. You'd THINK that an all-knowing "god" whose followers were constantly being compared to Nazis would come down and clear this all up for us, but no such luck, because he's not actually real.

 

So can you condemn Allah/Mohammad, and the Muslims who approve of death for apostates, for saying to kill apostates?

 

No, you want me to take you at YOUR word that your extremist narrow minded interpretation is the correct one.

 

I certainly condemn Muslims who actually believe apostates should be killed. But millions of Muslims DON'T believe that, so I'm not going to treat all muslims as if they do.

 

If, just for argument's sake here (yes, I might be wrong), I am correct in my interpretation, then would you condemn Allah/Mohammad/Muslims?

 

Yes and you have the same bible as the scum at the Westboro Babtist Church. Does that mean Christianity is evil? Or do you not hold yourself to the same logic and standards that you hold others to?


Holy books tends to be badly written and vague. There are many different interpretations of the same verses. Just because someone follows a religion doesn't mean they automatically agree with everything another person who follows that religion does or believes.

You seem to understand that when it comes to Christians. You would NEVER hold yourself or any other Christian accountable for the actins of the Westboro Church, or the folks at the Jonestown cult. Or those who bomb abortion clinics. And yet you are more than happy to say that by following Islam, all Muslims automatically empower and support Jihadists. You are nothing but a worthless hypocrite.

 

Ask 1000 Muslims: "If you found out, for argument's sake, that Mohammad approved of killing those that simply leave Islam, would you condemn Mohammad for that?"
Obviously we know what their reply would be, and it shows that they tend to be quite unethical.

 

Those that can't find the moral courage to improve said barbaric book, YES, those people would be not much better than the WBC, of course! You weren't expecting that answer from me, were you?

 

So they condemn Mohammad for saying this, then? "Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'" Sahih Bukhari 9:84:57.
".

 

Can you condemn that version of the Bible?

 

Well two hundred years of crusades and trying to subvert their ideologue hasn't worked, so I doubt your more of the same isn't going to achieve to much!

Especially with the attitude you have in your post in regards to their centuries old belief will only serve to insult them and unite them even more than they already are. The only way to deal with tribal cultures is with tactics that mean/relevant something to them.

 

What value has your hypothetical?

 

By the way, I've always admired the tenacity you've shown on this forum in relentlessly standing up for the beliefs that you hold. I respect someone with strong convictions who will stand up for what they believe, like you (regardless of how much we agree on stuff.)