What's missing in Trump's plan is defeating the BELIEF that drives our enemy

Nazism isn't a religion with more than a half dozen sects and several dozen schools.

 

That interpretation is idiotic and juvenile as literally any theology student would tell you.

 

To be brutally honest, just sit back and take the first strike and then annihilate them! In the mean time keep funding military fodder for them to plink at on their own soil!

 

Good point, yes - there are indeed OTHER barbaric options available to the true Muslim to brutally destroy his enemies. Can you condemn any Muslim who approves of Q5:33? Surely you have the moral conviction to condemn those that approve of a book that teaches to CRUCIFY, no?

 

Execution and exile are barbaric when someone is trying to kill you?

 

However, we are fighting against TERRORISTS, so your military solution won't work, unfortunately. So of course condemning their Jihad ideology is also needed - that will involve questioning Mohammad's credibility, and the credibility of the Islamic messiah (Jesus, aka "Isa") as well, of course.

 

Jesus wasn't a god. He was human. He wasn't divine in any way shape or form. He was simply a philosopher, one who preached uniconditional love and forgiveness for your fellow man. It was his followers who decided he was a god, and it was his followers who committed atrocities and claimed they were demanded by him.

 

Is crucifixion ethical, Q?
Modern Secular Humanists are more ethical than Christians/Muslims because we don't have texts that approve of torture - Jesus/Allah/god/Mohammad approved of torture.

 

According to the Bible you couldn't BE more wrong!

Matthew 9:2-6, Mark 2:3-12
Jesus ... said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee. And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth ... That ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.



John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us.


John 5:16-18
Therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.


John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.


John 10:30-31
I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.


John 10:38-39
The Father is in me, and I in him. Therefore they sought again to take him.


John 14:9
He that hath seen me hath seen the Father.


John 20:28
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.


Acts 20:28
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.


Colossians 1:16
For by him [Jesus] were all things created.


Colossians 2:9
For in him [Jesus] dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.


1 Timothy 3:16
God was made manifest in the flesh.


Titus 2:13
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.


Philippians 2:6
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God.


Hebrews 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.


Revelation 1:17
Fear not; I am the first and the last.


Revelation 22:13
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

 

No, cruxifiction isn't ethical and I doubt you will find many Muslims who support crucifying people today.

 

But Muslim live in London, in NYC, in Los Angeles, in Istanbul, etc. - we can't slaughter our way out of this war, my friend. This war will need to be won with ideas, not with bombs. It's also much more ethical and loving to do it that way, as well.

 

So how many Muslims, when asked this question would answer "yes"? "did Allah/Mohammad get is morally wrong when they said to CRUCIFY in Q5:33?"
You wouldn't want to BET MONEY that a lot of Muslims would answer in a morally correct way. However, it would be a very very safe bet to believe that Modern Secular Humanist would answer in a morally correct way, as MSH is more ethical than most religions are.

 

The 21st century and the 8th aren't the same.

 

Clearly you haven't a descent understanding of the Bible, you can always spot a layman and a illiterate: "showing or marked by a lack of acquaintance with the fundamentals of a particular field of knowledge" when they choose to teach or judge from the

Old Testiment

And frankly part of the problem we see today in the Middle East, they, like yourself take their Ideologue from the Old and refuse to recognize the teaching of the New Testament..

 

Don't forget that we have plenty of religious loons among us who aren't Muslim, yet they're not violent. What is happening is both political and religious, and we do not need to attempt any war against Islam to combat these terrorists and militants. We have plenty of Muslim allies in the same places who just want peace and all the other good things that most people want.

You want to attack religion, fine, do so through debate and education. Just don't expect the US to engage in some kind of "war" against Islam itself, because it would be misguided and doomed to failure.

 

Well, you know, it's typically Christian doctrine that Jesus is divine and himself represents God, and it's typical that Christians acknowledge the Old Testament as true in some sense, genocidal flood included.

 

He was a vile supremacist if he said "the only way to the father [heaven, and avoid hell] is through me". A supreme narcissist if there ever was one! A moral person would have said, instead, "the only way to the father is through ethics and good works....."
But Jesus didn't understand that - he was too stuck on HIMSELF.

 

You don't need to question the credibility of Mohammad, simply the credibility of the interpretation of the quran which Jihadists follow.

For example, they believe killing civilians is justified, including women and children, and yet Mohammad wrote out one of the first recorded set of rules of war, which prohibited killing women, children, elderly, sick/disabled, clergy, etc. It also prohibited destroying natural wonders as part of war I belive the direct quote is to "put no flame to the trees", or some variation of that, and against executing wounded or surrendering soldiers. Mohammad even killed one of his top generals for executing a wounded soldier who was attempting to surrender.

Modern Jihadists often selective quote passages to justify their beliefs, similar to how slave owners used to quote one or two passages of the bible to justify slavery, while ignoring the fact that the bible also said that any slave owner who unjustly abused his slaves would be put to death.

One can justify anything using religion. It does not mean that all followers of that religion agree with what is being justified.

 

NOTE the word annihilate

 

Yes, to be a Christian is, arguably, to be so incredibly unethical they they are fine with their all-powerful god having slaughtered 99.999999999%+ of humanity - so their god is the world's worst serial killer.
I can't imagine being so morally bankrupt that I ACCEPT that an unrepentant serial killer is the "most loving" entity of all time! Wow.

 

As I said, his followers named him as a god after his death, and THEY were the ones who wrote the new tesitment. So forgive me if I do not give a flying **** if the bible says he's a god.

 

Not true. The Allies challenged Nazis without condemning all Germans. It is common sense.

 

True but a judicial system will slowly remove those that are here harm and our society will indoctrinate their young instead of the opposite they receive in Middle East from radical Elders and tribal societies!

Hopefully the same western influences in London, Canada and other similar societies will prevail there as well!

 

You are trying to convince us that Mohammad did not approve of killing innocent people - you are wrong. Mohammad approved of killing innocent people:

Civilian Targets[edit]
Terrorists use Muhammad's numerous caravan raids of Meccans that passed by Medina as justification for attacking civilian targets as well as military. Muhammad (the Uswa Hasana) organized 64 such raids from 622 CE to 630 CE, of which he personally led 27.

• For further information, see: Scholars on killing civilian non combatants

Killing Civilians[edit]

Palestinians celebrate the deaths of 2,919 civilians in the 9/11 Islamic terror attacks on America and hand out free sweets
When Muhammad made a peace deal with Banu Nadir and Banu Qurayza and other Jewish tribes, the three leaders of the Jewish tribes were accused by him of breaking the peace treaty. Although he claimed only the three leaders of the tribes broke the peace treaty, Muhammad ordered the beheading of all the Jewish men and boys (who had begun to grow pubic hair).[4] Combatants and non-combatants alike were slaughtered and the remaining women and young children were taken captive by the Muslims and sold in slave markets.[5] This incident took place in the Battle of the Trench. Terrorist use this as justification to attack American civilians.[6][7][8][8][9][9][10][11]. Omar Bakri used this hadith as a justification as to why terrorism is allowed and why killing of civilians is allowed.[12]

Justification for Killing Jews[edit]
Main Article: Islamic Antisemitism
There are endless examples of anti-Semitism within Islamic scriptures. However, Hamas, an Islamic Resistance movement is Palestine, has justified the killing of Jewish Civilians using the hadith below, which they have also included in their Charter,[13] Many other clerics and scholars[14] have also referred to this verse to justify the killing of Jews:

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.
Sahih Muslim 41:6985, See also: Sahih Muslim 41:6981, Sahih Muslim 41:6982, Sahih Muslim 41:6983, Sahih Muslim 41:6984, and Sahih Bukhari 4:56:791
Killing Children[edit]
As has already been shown, Muhammad's (therefore Islam's) definition of a child differs from a non-Muslims. In Islam a boy who has started puberty is considered an adult. However, for this section we will accept the Islamic understanding. Although Muhammad somewhat disapproved of the killing of woman and 'children', he made a clear exception for non-Muslim woman and children. When he was at war, one of his companions came to him and said they had found children and woman among the dead when they were using catapults.

"The Prophet passed by me at a place called Al-Abwa or Waddan, and was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans)."
Sahih Bukhari 4:52:256
Muhammad said "they are of them" more than 3 times when children were killed.

It is narrated by Sa'b b. Jaththama that he said (to the Holy Prophet)" Messenger of Allah, we kill the children of the polytheists during the night raids". He said: "They are from them".
Sahih Muslim 19:4322
Muslim terrorist use this as a justification for carrying out terrorist attacks even if it puts woman and children in danger are even if they get killed. Muslim cleric Omar Bakri Mohammed referred to this hadith to justify why killing children accidentally is Islamic.[15]

Justification for Killing Homosexuals[edit]
Main Article: Islam and Homosexuality
Many terrorists, as do Islamic Scholars, justify the killing of homosexuals using the hadith. Terrorist acts have been committed against homosexuals on a regular basis in countries like Iraq where currently there are death squads operating.[16][17] They justify their acts based on the teachings and actions of Muhammad, who said:

Whoever you find doing the action of the people of Loot, execute the one who does it and the one to whom it is done[18]
Sunan Abu Dawud 38:4447
Muhammad’s first successor Abu Bakr (the father of Aisha) had a homosexual burned at the stake. The fourth caliph, Muhammad’s son-in-law Ali, ordered a sodomite thrown from the minaret of a mosque. Others he ordered to be stoned. One of the earliest and most authoritative commentators on the Koran, Ibn ‘Abbas (died 687) blended both approaches into a two-step execution in which “the sodomite should be thrown from the highest building in the town and then stoned.” Later it was decided that if no building were tall enough, the he could be shoved off a cliff.[19] Regardless of the exact method, many jurist argue over the way the punishment should be carried out.[19]

Killing Apostates (people who leave Islam)[edit]
Main Article: Islam and Apostasy
According to Islam, people who leave Islam must face the death penalty. In 1992 Muslim militants gunned down Farag Foda, an Egyptian secularist. They claim they did so because the prophet ordered the death of apostates.

Before his death, Farag Foda was declared an apostate and foe of Islam. An Al-Azhar University scholar, Mohammed al-Ghazali, a witness before the court, declared it was not wrong to kill a foe of Islam. Al-Ghazali said:

The killing of Farag Foda was in fact the implementation of the punishment against an apostate which the imam (the Islamic leader) has failed to implement (undertake).[20]
This was due to the sayings of Muhammad, who said:

"'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"
Sahih Bukhari 9:84:57
One of his followers refused to sit down and talk until a Jewish man who left Islam was killed. Only after he was killed did he continue. [21]

Killing those who mock Muhammad[edit]
Main Article: Islam and Freedom of Speech
Islamic scholars have declared that if a person mocks Muhammad, they must be killed.

Whoever Curses the Prophet Peace and Blessings be Upon him, Muslim or Kafir, Must be Killed.
The Drawn Sword Against the One Who Curses the Messenger - Pages 31-33
Ibn Taymiyyah
"The general scholars agreed that whoever curses him, Peace and Blessings be upon him, must be killed. This was stated by Malik, Al-Layth, Ahmad, Ishaaq, and Ash-Shafi'ee, and Nu'man (Abu Hanifa) said that the Dhimmi (Jizya-paying non-Muslim) is not to be killed."
The Drawn Sword Against the One Who Curses the Messenger - Pages 31-33
Ibn Al-Munthir
The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) sometimes chose to forgive those who had insulted him, and sometimes he ordered that they should be executed, if that served a greater purpose. But now his forgiveness is impossible because he is dead, so the execution of the one who insults him remains the right of Allaah, His Messenger and the believers, and the one who deserves to be executed cannot be let off, so the punishment must be carried out.
Al-Saarim al-Maslool, 2/438

Insulting the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is one of the worst of forbidden actions, and it constitutes kufr and apostasy from Islam, according to scholarly consensus, whether done seriously or in jest. The one who does that is to be executed even if he repents and whether he is a Muslim or a kaafir.
Ruling on one who insults the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)
Shaykh al Munajid - Islam Q&A - Fatwa No. 22809
Muhammad and his Jewish neighbour
Some Muslims say the Muhammad had a Jewish neighbour who threw rubbish at him, one day the person became ill and Muhammad visited her. This story is not present in any Islamic texts or hadiths and is thus most likely made-up. Neither have any scholars of the past mentioned it.

Muhammad reportedly said:

I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim.
Sahih Muslim 19:4366
Therefore he could not have had non-muslims neighbours in the later stage of his life.

https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Why_Terrorism_is_Allowed_in_Islam
.

 

No, MORE Muslim immigration will take place, more Muslims living among us will take place, not the other way around.
Abandon your dreams of killing our way out of this endless war.