Why are people in the middle east considered white?

Discussion in 'Race Relations' started by The Amazing Sam's Ego, Sep 29, 2014.

  1. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Native Americans are the same race as folks from east asia.

    natives of Australia are not the same race as folks in Manchuria.

    folks in bangladesh are not the same race as folks in Sweden.



    try again.
     
  2. mikemikev

    mikemikev Banned

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    Where is your data? What is your definition of race?
     
  3. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    the classical definition of race includes people having similar phenotypical qualities.

    that said, its absurd to think a native of sweden and a native of sri lanka, are the same race.

    same as someone from manchuria and tazmania.

    same as someone from north dakota and japan.

    looks like you need to update your list of races, to at least 9.
     
  4. mikemikev

    mikemikev Banned

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    So you have no data or precise definition, and dismiss anything out of hand as "absurd". Don't tell me, race is "skin color".

    Great.

    Do you want to see my data and definition.
     
  5. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    finally!!!!!!! some actual data
     
  6. mikemikev

    mikemikev Banned

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    I've been posting data. You ignore it and repeat the same thing the next day. But I'll be happy to post it every day.
     
  7. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    good. post it again
     
  8. mikemikev

    mikemikev Banned

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    Sure. I'll do it later.
     
  9. Blasphemer

    Blasphemer Well-Known Member

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    Thats not really true. While there is a lot of cultural baggage associated with race that is merely socialy constructed, and racial theories of the past were often indeed pseudoscientific, race as a biological concept is a reality. It just isnt usualy called a race, but subspecies or other term for genetically dissimilar populations of humans. But in the end it isnt far from what the word "race" used to mean.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(human_classification)

    Do you know what tree of life is? When you plot all species on the planet they tend to form a structure shaped like a tree, with a single branch recursively dividing into two etc. Well, this structure does continue on a subspecies level, of course. It is more fuzzy (beware of continuum falacies!), but it is there. Human species is no exception. This is all proven by large scale genetic analyses. And it is these major sub-branches on a human species are pretty equivalent to what people think of when they hear the term "race". This doesnt make one race genetically superior or inferior to another.

    Now there are three types of people who deny the existence of races:

    1. Sociologists or antiracist activists who are not talking about biological race but sociological baggage associated with race, or are speaking out against outdated racist pseudoscience. They are more or less right, but it is not relevant to biological races as currently understood. Biologists dont use the term "race" much but other terms (which do mean similar thing tough), while sociologists embraced the term "race" for their concepts, which is why most "officialy looking" definitions you are going to find today refer to the sociological ones. This creates the illusion that race is all just sociology.

    2. Crackpots who have no clue about relevant science

    3. Rabid ideologues who will never acknowledge the existence of any category that could even remotely validate any concept of race, because they built a significant part of their self-worth around fight against racism, real or percieved. These are the most deluded. And due to taboo against racism in modern western world, they may hold a lot of influence and exist in large numbers. So you should be skeptical when reading any claims that race doesnt exist, at all, because you may very well be dealing with such ideologue.
     
  10. Blasphemer

    Blasphemer Well-Known Member

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    Here is a nice graph based on average genetic distance:

    cM1xl.gif

    Now you may choose to call the major tree branches "races", you may choose to call them some other fancy word, but thats mostly semantics. Doesnt make them any less real.
     
  11. mikemikev

    mikemikev Banned

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    I guess that's an old graph. North and South East Asians cluster together.
     
  12. Blasphemer

    Blasphemer Well-Known Member

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    May be so, its just the first result I got from google, there were many more. If you know of a more up to date version please post.
     
  13. mikemikev

    mikemikev Banned

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    Sure. I'm gonna post a good one tomorrow. I already posted it for Ronstar but he forgot about it.
     
  14. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    source????
     
  15. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    looks like 38 races.

    now, how come ALL Europeans are listed as the same.....hmmmm?????
     
  16. mikemikev

    mikemikev Banned

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  17. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  18. mikemikev

    mikemikev Banned

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    The plots are misleading unless you consider population numbers. Sampling 100 Indians and 100 Uyghurs and 100 Chinese produces a continuum. But Uyghurs are like 1%. Similarly Jews scattering between Turks and Greeks in the West Eurasian plot are not a dense local population. You need to know each population and its size and range. Looking at the pretty smear won't help.

    And nobody said there were no mixed groups. Strawman lie.
     
  19. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    nevertheless, the graphs prove that its absurd to box billions of people into 4 little boxes of "racial" identity.
     
  20. mikemikev

    mikemikev Banned

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    What do you mean by little? It has no meaning here. You can partition major clusters which captures sets of correlated variation, which is informative.
     
  21. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    billions of people don't fit into your 4 "major clusters".
     
  22. mikemikev

    mikemikev Banned

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    Everybody does. You don't understand how to partition space to maximise variance. More clusters gives higher resolution.
     
  23. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    if they all did, then we'd all look alike and have the same haplotype group.

    but we don't.
     
  24. HailVictory

    HailVictory Banned at Members Request

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    I've done a lot of research into this cuz I am a Nazi, but I have Indo-European origins, so I have darker skin, although my mother was German. (btw, don't be like you racist, I do not support the Holocaust or anything, I was just researching what was up with Aryanism). Anyways, what I found was that #1: people from India, the Middle East, and Europe all have similar genetic makeups, and most have the Nordic/Caucasoid bodily makeup (try picturing an Arab guy with white skin and you'll see that he would look like a normal white guy, whereas a black guy would not) and that #2: what they look at is similar language, Sanskrit being the basis of Latin and Germanic languages as well as more Eastern languages like Hindi. So, we are all Aryans, as a guy from Sweden would have the same genetic and bodily makeup as a guy from India (I am a swimmer and I know that black people have denser bones that whites which puts them at a disadvantage in swimming, but the rule doesn't apply to Indians and Arabs), and they speak similar languages.
     
  25. mikemikev

    mikemikev Banned

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    Partitioning a multivariate PCA means everything in it is identical? Lol.
     

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