Why is the existence of God not obvious?

I was brought up a 'good little Church of England boy' - sang in the school choir, went to Sunday School and church - all that stuff, until I was like 12, at which point I rejected all religious tenets.

I think what many of us describe as 'God' is a sense of spirituality - that there is more to the human condition than our material form. That's as may be, and some may attribute that sense to an invisible, omniscient and omnipotent Being, while others may attribute it to an unknown physical element in the human animal.

I do think there is an element of spirituality in all of us. One has only to experience the beauties of nature, and the wonders of music to realise the existence of that spirituality.

Of course these feelings may simply be the result of millennia of evolution - green, tranquil places, with nature's abundance, is obviously a beneficial environment for any living creature, and music, which is essentially mathematical may cause a psychological reaction which we find attractive and soothing for reasons not yet known. Similarly with the sense of well-being experienced when we help people, or perform charitable acts. This may also be the result of millennia of evolution - nature's way of ensuring the survival of all life.

But I believe there is such a thing as spirituality (which is not necessarily the same thing as a god) and I also believe that when I die; it will be enough to have lived however many years I did - to have done interesting things, to have had friends, maybe even found love.

If it is enough for a beautiful flower to have existed for a short time, given utility and pleasure to other life forms, and then gone back to the earth whence it came - what is so special about me that I cannot do the same? (Without the beauty bit, LOL! )

 

It is just your mind. God is only a creation of the human mind.

 

Of course you are right. But all things - whether material or metaphysical - have existence in the mind. Without mental awareness, nothing is capable of existence.

 

Sad........................................

 

Might I ask what, precisely, is sad?

 

The beauty of the reality that is being rejected by some.

 

That is an imprecise answer. What reality, and who is rejecting it?

 

The obvious reality...You'll just keep saying it's "imprecise" because it doesn't meet your pre-conceived criteria for an answer. That is your choice, and in my opinion, that is sad. I believe you are missing out on a great aspect of life.

 

Don't presume to know what I will say. Your comment of "Sad ..." was both imprecise - as I had no idea of to what or to whom you were referring - and seemed more than a little patronising (whether you meant it to be or not).

I am not here to question or ridicule anyone else's beliefs. A charming post, which spoke of what I refer to as spirituality, by another person, prompted me to give my appreciation of the same qualities. I respect everyone's right to their belief systems, but it's just such seemingly judgmental comments that caused me to reject organised religion at an early age.

 

I dont believe in God. So im pretty sure you understand my feelings on why you cant feel God.

I have studied Religion in great length and detail however and I can tell you that if you DO believe in God then you are wasting your time praying for proof. Any Religious text specifically tells you to look with your heart and not with your eyes (not those exact words but you get my point) in other words.....FAITH.

You will never find your proof. If that is what you are looking for then stop wasting your time and instead worry more about living your life according to your beliefs.

I dont mean for that to sound harsh, but according to your religions the only people who God has revealed himself to are prophets. There is also a lot of stuff about not coveting things you cant have, about greed, and all that stuff.

If you are going to be religious you cant have it both ways. You cant ask for God to show himself to you and then get upset that he doesnt.

Whether you remain a person of faith or a hethen non believer like me (lol) I wish you peace and happiness no matter where your journey takes you.

 

You said...
"Of course you are right." In response to a post that said, "It is just your mind. God is only a creation of the human mind."


Don't feign as if you haven't chosen a side in the debate as to the existence of God...


And puh-leez..."charming?" ...as if that's not utterly patronizing diction. Spare us your feigned umbrage.

 

THIS post, I can respect...even if I don't agree with the position on the existence of God.

 

And went on to write -

This seems a self-evident qualification to me - certainly not something that proves or disproves the supernatural. If you are seeking justification for your beliefs, please do so elsewhere. I am not interested in arguing the matter.

I have no need to feign anything, nor any reason to enter a debate as to the existence of God. The post wherein I presented my feelings about spirituality, was non-confrontational, non-judgmental, and made no statement as to the existence or otherwise of a god. It merely contemplated possibilities.

Peace! I respect your beliefs, and I am not interested in challenging them, so you are fighting battles that do not exist.

 

Thank You. Disagreement is always welcome!!

You seem like a good person and so therefore I always welcome the discussion. Religion is fascinating to me, I just cant bring myself to believe in it, but I study it a ton and love learning as much as I can about it.

I like the positives it brings to peoples lives. I dont like getting caught up in the debate on who is right because that just turns into an argument.

 

Do we really need to take you to school on the RRC's past ? The killing? The molestations? The torture? The LIES. ECT ECT ECT

 

Oh, you know so little about the Bible. This is as it should be based on your rejection of it. You can never hope to understand it. It's not for you, it's for the Christian, though others can perhaps get a glimpse of the God they know not. A far cry from a relationship with Him.

 

I imagine I have studied the bible far more than your average Christian.

If you claim to have "seen God" then you are lying or you were on a lot of drugs. If you claim to have seen "SIGNS" of God, well I dont buy that either but from the Christians perspective that is much more rational and for the sake of keeping an open mind I wont argue with you when you say that.

But dont say that because im not a Christian that I dont understand the bible. Not only have I read it front to back on numerous occassions, I have studied it, I have studied the ORIGINS of it, I have studied the lost gospels, I have studied most biblical historians thesises on numerous different elements of the bible etc etc.

Plus I used to be a Christian......For many years. When I was younger I even wanted to be a Priest lol.

I have studied the Old Testament, Judiasm, Islam, and how they relate to the Bible. My heart was open to it for years and years.

You have a right to your faith and I will NEVER try to talk you out of it, or tell you that you are wrong. I am an Atheist but I do not hate Religion, I just lost faith and no longer believe in any of it. With that said, religion is not my enemy. It is my friend and we disagree sometimes lol. But dont presume that I do not understand it, or that I am ignorant to it. Nothing could be further from the truth.

 

If I had a dime for every person who claimed to be an ex-Christian I would be a millionaire. Apparently for you, it did not take. But that's between you and God. I will say that if you once believed in Jesus at an age old enough to make that decision then I will see you in Heaven, even though you have turned your back on God for the time being. The Word speaks to such as you.

"Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it." [Proverbs 22:6]

This is our hope for you, that you will return to Him. In the meantime you lead others astray and for that there will be consequences while here on earth. Not to mention consequences for a life outside His Will. Evidence of this permeates throughout your posts.

 

I don't exactly see where I lead anyone else astray. I said to follow your heart. How is that leading anyone astray?

I have never in my life tried to convince someone else to stop believing in their faith. If my children ever decide they want to go to church I will take them because it is what THEY want.

I have explained religion in great detail to my 9 year old. She knows my opinion on it but I encourage her to study it. She is currently in the process of reading the bible. She comes to me with questions about what she has read and I answer them based on my knowledge of the bible and the history behind it and the meaning behind it....NOT as an Atheist.

If she decides she doesn't believe in it, I will support that. If she decides she does....I will support that. I wont TELL my kid what to believe though. She is an intelligent girl and I trust her judgment in matters of faith.

So I dont lead anyone astray. The only person I have ever lead away from religion is myself.

 

Fair enough.

 

So when your child reaches the age of 17 (still a minor) and says "Hey Dad, I WANT to go rob a bank; give me a ride." , are you still going to say OK because it is what he/she 'WANT'? If you say 'no' to that child's request, what would be your rationale?

 

I don't know why you bother asking or why any non-theist bothers asking this question. You know the answer, it is that you must have faith. You'll never get a different answer, I guarantee you. And you will never get any physical, solid evidence.

 

Nice strawman you got there.

 

Those that wish to further the lie that is your religion...
Religion is like having a dick. Yep its ok for you to have one, just dont whip it out in public and dont try ramming it down my or my children's throats...

 

So the existence of a sky is proof of God?