why Mormans are not Christian

You ar ereading far more into it than was clearly intended.

The people were marked not because of their skin, but because of their behavior. THey were marked out. That's it. It happened to be skin color.

What you are doing now is taking a modern view of racism and applying it as if THAT must have been the intent. It wasn't, it was a way to mark those people as cursed because of their choices - that is it.

The fairer skinned? You assume that means European fair, but fair is a somparative term is it not? And in comparison, there are lighter and darker Indians across the American continent.

Indeed, in terms of color, white has often been a symbol of purity, and black of .. malign. THis is throughout history, as white is seen as clean. They did not call her snow black after all.

You are taking something out of context from millenia ago and applpyng modern racial context to it, and that is clearly not the intent.

I conceed that at one point the church read it exactly as you do. That changed, they acknowledged that they are wrong. You however, are still viewing it the old way ... and remain wrong.

Which is the better way? The ability to acknowledge that something was misinterpreted? To change, or to continue to view it wrong indefinitely? To continue to insist that people who clearly do not interprete it that way, MUST interpret it the way you do.

Its no different than what Islamophobes do to Muslims, where they twist words and context to call billions of people terrorists. Its wrong with Muslims, and its wrong with Mormons. That simple.

 

lol...

no one..not a soul will admit the infamnia..

 

Doc, does it make you feel better to call someone who is clearly not racist a racist? A terrorist? A rapist?

If there is something that you are claiming and EVERYONE is in disagreement with it, that shoud tell you something.

But Doc, I know you, I've seen you on this forum. And what I know is that there is something about Mormonism that got into you - or you would not be behaving this way.

There is only one way to deal with it - face it. Go to a Mormon Church. Whatever has your goat, the answer to it is clearly there.

 

its the whole clam up and pretend that gets me..

hey as far as religion goes if it makes you live a good life hen it did its job...im happy...

what has my goat is being dishonest about it and accepting them as christians for some weird agenda...some political deal or what ever...


i not only look at the original tale as racist but totally bereft of having any feelings for a race..

little kids being told their skin colour is a mark of god....wrongo..


we deal with the native people differently in Canada...we did not go around and kill them and try to wipe em out...

all the wrongs that were done we are trying to settle...there are still wrongs being done to the northern peoples...we are trying...

 

That all well and good, but I have watched you take on just about every religion on here, sometimes light heartedly and sometimes seriously. This is the first time I have ever seen ANY religion actually get under skin.

Some people are actually Islamophobes are simply nilhilists. You are not one of those people Doc. There is more to this.

I just sayin' Doc, there is more here than what you are saying. Something has you agitated in a way that is .... unusual.

My advice is to visit one of their churches. Its not like its scarier than visiting a haunted house or anything, and whatever ailes you ... well, it makes sense to confront it.

If you really think Muslims are terrorists? Visit a mosque. If you think all Catholics are pedophiles, visit a Church. If you think Buddhists are hedonists, visit a monastary.

Something about Mormonism seems to have gotten into you ... only one way to face it friend. All their is too it.

 

Well then it must not be true because it doesn't mean that to you huh? Come on man.

 

No, the clear intent of color is that case is to mark the sinful - those out of favor with God because of their specific actions against God. And wouldn't it be nice if there were a physical sign of wickedness? In Ancient America, it was darker skin - not necessarily black - that differentiated this tribe.

No one is making the claim that black skin NOW represents this wickedness.

Additionally, you are taking 'fair' to mean white or European. That is not the case. Indeed, the 'Western' style of fair skin, Israelites, runs the full gammet of skin coloring. Its likely that this small band of men intermarried and were simply subsummed by the far larger native American population. Indeed, intermarriage since colonization would make it all but impossible to identify any lingering genetic markers in native populations today - the assumption being that any similarity would be from Spanish or Portugese descent.

As I said, in a 'literal' sense, the BoM is damb near impossible to verify or reject to a definitive point. (Funny that God seems to keep doing that?)

More importantly, and as the church has done with this scripture, is to apply it correctly. Men and women of color today are NOT the inheretors of this 'curse', they are not marked as wicked. THis was a specific response to period specific wickedness and oppression - one that has now expired.

Those who are in error on this one have been corrected by the highest levels of church authority. Those outside the church who continue to apply modern racial interpretations to it? Obviously, I think that is somewhat disingenuos and self fulfilling.

The simple fact of teh matter is that I am sure there are racist Mormons out there, but the vast majority of the Mormons I serve with are ANYTHING but racist.

 

i assume it means in the book what the book says
21 And he had caused the accursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delight some, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.

22 And thus saith the Lord God: I will cause that they shall be a loathsome unto thy people, save they shall repent of their iniquities.

23 And cursed shall be the seed of him that mixed with their seed; for they shall be cursed even with the same cursing. And the Lord spoke it, and it was done.


White is not good black is not evil people have that misconception enough god doesn’t need to reinforce it

reinterpreting your holy book to make your faith less loathsome is not discovering the true meaning of it its losing it for something better so you can keep believing in it

its not better for a religion to alter itself to preserve itself against modern sensibility’s by claiming it always meant something else

I am not taking anything out of context the book says native American skin color is a curse and that its loathsome and it serves to keep theses white people from wanting to breed with the descendants of sinners ( even though you’re not a sinner because of how you look and you’re not decent because you have white skin either and you don’t have to look different form people of another culture to not get along with them making the whole thing kind of stupid and half assed and inconsistent on gods part )

 

the oops we were wrong kind of means oops are religion is false in this case

 

Excerpts from Three Addresses by President Wilford Woodruff Regarding the Manifesto

The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty.

 

As I read that particular exchange between Jesus and Peter, Jesus asked Peter who he thinks he(Jesus) is. Peter tells him he(Jesus) is the Son of God. Jesus responds by telling Peter he is blessed to know that because Peter did not learn it by hearing or reading(flesh hath not revealed it unto thee), but by his Father in Heaven. Then Jesus continued by saying, Upon this rock I will build my church. The rock being a personal revelation from our Heavenly Father. Peters name had nothing to do with it. Jesus's Church is built on personal revelation or testimony from God the Father. That's the purest form of knowing of Divinity. Hence the Rock.

 

No, it means, oops we interpreted that wrong.

If you think every religion has to get everything right 100% of the time in every single instance, then there are no true religions on earth. There are only those that acknowledge mistakes and get better, and those that do not - and stangant spiritually and physically.

 

And indeed the Mormon Church is doing just fine. The very fact that they have a Prophet that can acknowlegde when it is wrong? Well, compare that to the Catholic Church's slow, plodding evolution of thought on ANY issue.

 

its not supposed to be wrong in the 1st place its supposed to be the only church the only religion that’s not wrong because every one else has it wrong according to them when has the church ever said it was wrong?

 

It isn't wrong in the first place. The scripture didn't change. Our understanding of it and what it means to modern, living, breathing human beings most certainly did.

Again, if you feel yourself drifting from God .... who changed, you or God.

You were wrong 30 years ago and changed? Well, what;s the point of dragging it up and saying they STILL think that way?

 

so you’re keeping the words the same and just change the meaning to suit yourself ....ya

Cant admit a scripture was ever wrong not if its believed to be from god that would attack your faith so you must have got it wrong

and when has the lds church ever said it interpreted scripture incorrectly?

and what’s with the i was wrong 30 years ago im 27?

 

It's a hard thing to bite but there it is.

 

Oh, you have never read something, and then - older and wiser - went back and realized you had it wrong?

Yeah, humans and our understanding evolve.

Its not God that changes, its us. And that is EXACTLY the point made by that snippet. Teh scripture is the same. Yet interpreting it as a period and context specific action seems ... reasonable. Interpreting it to mean that all darker skinned people are cursed as wicked clearly does not jive with reality - and it is no longer tolerated in the church.

Boy, I am glad that racism effected no other church other than the Mormon church! See what I am getting at?

Are all other churches, whose scripture was twisted and used to support slavery now invalidated? Or is the realization that all men are equal and created by God the correct interpretation?

Which is it?

 

Well, glad we got that resolved. The church of Jesus Christ later Day Saints has nothing to do with Jesus.

 

No one is holier than thou than the truly holy. And they know who(m) they are/is.

 

iv never claimed i had god telling me what’s right and wrong

The one true region should not evolve to better survive it’s just humans changing there faith to preserve it and then dishonestly claiming their god was always like how they say it is now

Yes they are all invalidated they all reinvent god to suit their tastes

 

And that has nothing to do with whether a deonimination is Christian. I have met devout Christians of every deomination, and fakers and (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)s from every denomination. Mormons worship Christ, and many of them do a very, very good job of representing what is best about Christianity. Some fail.

Just like any other group of Christians.

 

God does not answer your prayers? You have never felt inspired?

Once again, God does not change - we do, and they did. And when we change for the better - that is to be applauded, not derided.