Wikileaks: Latest US Death Squad Operations Manual

"restriction of activity" of trade unions doesnt involve "death squads".

 

Look. You can be ignorant by yourself. You're really digging down deap after what I just showed you. Goodbye. Im done with you. Hitler didnt refer to Heinrich Himmler's henchmen as death squads either.

 

So you are calling the Guardian,Washington Post,New York Times,AP,HRW and many more well thought of publications biased and uninformed,that is rather funny. Anyone worth their salt in the subject of history knows what the Americans got up to in Latin America and other parts of the world. It seems that it is you who needs to do some research.

 

And also the National Security Archive's declassified US documents and the Council on Foreign Relations. They see one commentary by Wikileaks so they say everything I show is from biased sources cause they are desperate and dishonest.

 

His primary source for this thread is wikileaks which has a clear history of bias and misinformation.

His NYT, WP, Guardian links generally just site basic information like foreign aid numbers and other various generic news. They don't support his wild assertions. For this "support" he uses wikileaks and other clearly biased sources.

The issue at hand is whether or not U.S. Special Operations Forces have a training guide that encourages all the crazy things Horhey mentioned in the OP. The discussion got pushed towards Latin America and away from the point of the thread. This is a common tactic when people cannot provide evidence. I.e. if I can't prove U.S SF directly encourages X I'll deflect and talk about Latin America. This is the issue when people come on to talk about these types of things. When they're shown clear evidence that opposes their assertion they try and make huge broad attacks that deflect away from the issue. Almost every topic on specific issues in Iraq/Afghanistan is pushed into the "justification" debate by anti-war posters who cannot back up their original claims. This thread is a perfect example of that.

Knowing what America "got up to" in Latin America is an entirely different debate and not really related to current U.S. SF training manuals. If you wish to push the discussion in that direction I suggest you start a thread. I think the rest of us would rather deal with Horhey's original claims.

 

Yeah, you showed us a silly claim that the US trained "death squads" to suppress union activity. And you actually think youve proved something with the exerpt from the manual that talks about "restricting activity" of unions. You believe because you soooo desparately need to believe. The real world is but a minor inconvenience to you.

 

I dont need to comment on any of this for any rational observer can look at it and come to their own conclusions. Case is closed as far as Im concerned. Remain in your Bliss for all I care.

I sooo desperately dont give a (*)(*)(*)(*) what you got to say. That silly claim is from the declassified US documents. Go back 2 pages and look right at the top.

 

Those are all the sources he ran to in order to avoid addressing the BS in his wikileaks article and his claims he drew from it. Specifically in my case, his claim that.

You and he STILL havent yet figured out that he was reading wikileaks commentary as if it was coming from the manual. It isnt.

 

Do they really? Sounds like the American government talking. I have not seen any misinformation released by wikileaks myself. All the things they have released have been factual.

I believe you never even read them otherwise you would not come out with such rubbish

Of course they do. Where are you living? In a cave? The only people who would not believe that the US Special Forces are murdering scum are other members of the military and their family and friends. who are probably in the military as well. Wikileaks released information about American special forces butchering innocent people,did you miss it? I bet you thought it was biased.You seem to think that these guys actually act within international laws,they don't. They kill people for money and that says all you need to know about them. As I stated the US government has a long history of supporting thugs,training thugs and murdering innocent people and to try and deny it is a joke at best.

 

Wrong. I suggest you read what I write instead of make crap up. I have already stated that you have to read through the bias here.

http://www.politicalforum.com/terro...squad-operations-manual-3.html#post1060949121

 

Nooo, he merely claims

comes from the government when in fact it comes from wikileaks.

 

Are you having problems reading? The quote you posted from wikileaks is historically correct. If you cannot show some misinformation from wikileaks then please do not bother quoting what I wrote.

 

He claims its from the Special forces manual. IT IS NOT. Historically incorrect.
http://wlstorage.net/file/us-fm-31-20-3.pdf

He claims that the "death squads" were created according to the manual while Ive shown the only actual reference to "death squads" shows that they are in contradiction of the manual. Even the appearrance of paramilitaries acting as "death squads" is to be avoided according to the manual.

Members of the US armed forces have been convicted of rape. All US armed forces have been "trained" by the US. If you want to claim the US trained rapist I guess you could claim the US trained "death squads". But we did not train them to be rapist or death squads. Both would be in contradiction of policy as stated in the manual. "Restricting activities" of unions doesnt involve death squads.

 

So now you are claiming that this statement is historically incorrect when all the evidence says you are wrong.

Civilian Self-Defense Forces [Paramilitaries, or, especially in an El-Salvador or Colombian civil war context, right wing "death squads"

So you think that the Americans did not train death squads in El-Salvador and Colombia? That is what you are saying. You should read more as they certainly did.

Also if you have a problem with Horhey then take it up with him not me,I am not his dad.

I will claim that US forces have trained death squads because they have. There is an avalanche of evidence to back that up.

 

Mr. Bliss,
What makes you think that Mr. Horhey is uninformed? Could it be that the information that he presents does not agree with what you have been lead to believe about "America Foreign Policy(ies)"? What Mr. Horhey has presented, I have heard, studied and researched for years (since the mid 1990's). I suggest that you take your own advice and research and study what he presents and maybe you will find that you have in fact been misinformed by media, government officials, your CO (commanding officers), etc.

 

Mr. Dixon,
Are you aware the Mara Salvatrucha or the MS of MS-13 has its origins in the Salvadoran "Contras" of the Reagan Era? If you did not know, I suggest that you find out quickly. American foreign policy has come home in a big way and unfortunately everyday citizens and non-citizens alike have to deal with the "blowback".
Geo-politics is the graveyard of The United States and it is a shame that most within its borders are hard-pressed to accept this fact.

 

What part dont you understand. Yes, military troops we have trained, have acted as "death squads". No, we didnt train them to become death squads. And more specifically, what I have been arguing here, all along is that "death squads" are AGAINST policy stated in the manual. In other words, the assertion in the title of the thread is BS. The only thing the manual says is that "death squads" cant be tolerated.

Precisely the opposite of the assertion of the thread, "Death Squads Operations Manual"

 

Got anything relevant to my comments? ANYTHING to support the assertion that this is a "Death Squad Operations Manual"? I didnt think so.
And the only connection of MS13 to the "Contras" is that MS was formed by Salvadorans who immigrated to the US because of civil wars in El salvador

 

Yeah, cause one of the strategies was to try to provoke rebels into attacking civillians to turn the population against them and to make the regime look like the good guys. That's a pretty cold blooded tactic.

And if that doesnt work, just go back to the standard methods...

This part is interesting. It's clearly refering to constitutional democracies. But which ones?

 

No, very incorrect. MS-13 is a Los Angeles based Hispanic gang. Primarily made originally of El Salvadorians at it's founding, it was made to protect the gang members from the more populous and agressive Mexican and Black gangs of Los Angeles.

This is no different from Nuestra, Norteños, Nazi Low Riders, Asian Boyz, Mexican Mafia, Barrio Van Nuys, Blythe Street, Pacas, or any of the hundreds of other gangs in LA.

About the only connection is that the gang started in the 1980's, and that President Reagan was president at the time.

Trust me, I am from Los Angeles. I lived and went to school in an area that not only had several active gangs, but gang warfare was common during my senior year in high school. A new gang, BST was created in what was formerly BVN territory an about a year of off and on war ensued. I went to school with members of both factions, and thankfully they set the school os a free zone. I also had to cross the border every night as I walked home from work.

US gangs, especially those in LA, do not carry on issues or anything with where they come from. The kids generally consider themselves to be "American", and do not really care where their parents came from.

This can be shown, in that MS-13 is not a "Salvadorean" gang. It works and has members from all areas of Latin America, and has very close ties with the Mexican Sinaloa Cartel.

So nice try, but not hardly accurate at all. You read that the founders were Salvadorean immigrants, and somehow that all just ties it together. But living most of my life in LA, I have seen gangs pop up fairly regularly. And almost universally, they are founded generally along racial lines, then branch out from there. Cambodians, Koreans, Vietnamese, Mexican, Cuban, Puerto Rican, Black, even White gangs. But once they are established, most of them start accepting members of other races to a degree.

Asizn Boyz started as a Vietnamese gang, but then started accepting members who were Cambodian, Thai, Laotian, and others with South-East Asian descent. When I was in school Barrio Van Nuys was strictly Mexican, but now accept all Hispanics. The same goes for Blythe Street and every other gang I have ever had connections to.

 

It's true. MS-13 has absolutely nothing to do with the Contras. The Contras were the former US-trained Nicaraguan National Guard under the Somoza regime. After his regime was toppled by the Sandinistas:

-The National Security Archive's Peter Korbluh, observes.

Robert Pastor, President Carter’s national security advisor for Latin America, explained some important distinctions between human rights and policy: Regretfully, the administration had to support the Somoza regime right to the end, and when that proved impossible because the tyrant was being overthrown by internal revolt, to maintain the US-trained National Guard even after it had been massacring the population “with a brutality a nation usually reserves for its enemy,” killing some 40,000 people.

To Pastor, the reason is elementary:

 

You just make the (*)(*)(*)(*) up as you go along. The manual contains no such tactic.

 

Wow. You never saw that part before? Not even Mushroom is gonna say I made it up cause he's the one that first posted it.

 

Sorry but the evidence says you are incorrect. The US certainly did train people as death squads,they also trained people to torture and were complicit in torture as well in Latin America. If you do not know this fact then you should improve your historical references before claiming such never happened.

I can name at least on Nun who can testify to an American government representative who sat in while she was tortured.

Dianna Ortiz
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dianna_Ortiz

Battalion 3-16 (Honduras)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battalion_3-16_(Honduras)#Links_with_the_United_States

Of course Horhey has done a better job than me of presenting the evidence but that is because I cannot really be bothered with people like you who deny reality.

 

Check this out man..

John Negroponte: Democracy in Latin America Threatens US Interests (the quote is at 1:07)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cK2wDEKP2JE"]Democracy in Latin America is a Threat[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MUBDR_j8t0&feature=player_embedded"]What Nicaraguans think of Reagan[/ame]

John Negroponte is Central America's bin Laden x 999999999. He's currently a consultant to Secretary of State Clinton and according to Obama's police state "material support" law any one who simply speeks to him is providing "material support" to a terrorist.

Ambassedor Negroponte: the Overseer of CIA-Run Death Squads

Ambassedor Negroponte's support was fundemental to Battalion 3-16's slaughter of Honduran citizens.

Furthermore, the Contras routinely used US military bases in Honduras to torture and execute prisoners: