There are those who are uneducated about the crimes Israel has committed against its Arab population. Here is a short list. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_refugees#Palestinian_refugees_from_the_1948_Palestine_War http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Palestinian_exodus http://www.haaretz.com/news/a-mosque-once-stood-here-1.169947#! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settlement#Land_ownership http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Jerusalem#Residency Israel massacred civilians during the 1948 war. they exiled hundreds of thousands during the 1948 war, after the war, and during the 1967 war. they have stolen thousands of acres of private land, to make into Jewish settlements. they have stripped thousands of Palestinians of their right to live in East Jerusalem. they destroyed hundreds of mosques.
here's some more informative articles about Israel's land theft policies: http://www.haaretz.com/print-editio...der-to-legalize-west-bank-settlement-1.372023 http://www.haaretz.com/news/court-case-reveals-how-settlers-illegally-grab-west-bank-lands-1.241487 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/21/AR2006112100482_pf.html http://www.peacenow.org.il/eng/cont...srael-justify-and-legalize-confiscation-lands
well, much of the land was bought by Jews before the 1948 War. and all those lovely non-native pine trees were planted by Jordan.
The little detail that probably is difficult to grasp is that it's possible to accuse Israel of these crimes, to discuss about them ... not only on an international forum, but also in Israel ... Try and discuss, in a square in Gaza, about the acts of terrorism committed by Hamas ... If you accuse Israel of war crimes in a square in Tel Aviv, you will may be receive insults, if you accuse Hamas of terrorism in a square in Gaza, you will receive bullets ...
lol!!! that doesn't excuse Israel's crimes and bigotry. its like saying "The Krakow Ghetto wasn't as bad as the Auschwitz death camp"
Who is saying that this excuses this or that? [Pay attention that the reasoning is double face ...]. In Israel there are institutions and courts which follow a democratic process to discuss and decide [legally] about eventual crimes. We can say "they are nationally biased and lined up with Tel Aviv". Ok, first demonstrate that that's the case, second show me a Palestinian court running trials about the Hamas guys who launched rockets towards Israeli civilian areas ... - - - Updated - - - No, I'm underlining that being Israel a democracy, in Israel there are the institutions [and the justice courts] to deal with these matters [as I say in the other post].
This makes it worse. The public in Israel has a process by which they can influence the actions of their government without fear of persecution. The Palestenians don't have such a luxury. The people in Israel are more culpable for the atrocities committed by their government than the Palestenian population.
Oh my ... have you expressed in a clear way your thought, or you have problems with English? You're condemning all the Palestinians who voted for Hamas [knowing well the nature and the purposes of that "party"]. They are directly culpable for all the atrocities committed by Hamas ... Are you sure you don't want to reconsider your opinion? - - - Updated - - - Which was the destiny of a Palestinian in the territories who dared to criticize or even oppose the activities of the Organization for the Liberation of Palestine?
Israel is NOT a democracy in the Western understanding of the term . Its a Jewish version of a "democracy" FOR JEWS ONLY . All citizens are NOT equal under Israeli laws. Its more hypocrisy than democracy. Rhetoric belies longstanding policy. Nothing ahead suggests change. "Israel is an ethnocracy. Its polar opposite democracy. Israeli leaders refer to Jewish democracy. Its Orwellian. Structural inequalities explain. Israeli Arabs are citizens. They compromise 20% of the population. They can vote. They can sit in parliament. Theyre little more than potted plants. Jews alone have power. Arabs have no say. The Law of Return affords it solely to Jews. Arabs are unwanted. Theyre persecuted. Institutionalized racism denies them equal rights. Citizenship and Entry in Israel legislation prohibits Israeli Arab spouses in Palestine or abroad from entering Israel. Residency rights are forbidden. Families are divided. Theyre denied fundamental rights. Israel builds walls, not peace. Fortress Israel is policy. It assures permanent conflict. It justifies occupation harshness. It assures continued repression. It mocks resolving the longstanding Israeli/Palestinian conflict equitably. Its a distant dream. Throughout its history, Israel spurned peace. Its done it repeatedly. In 1949, it rejected Arab states territorial concessions. They were offered in return for letting 100,000 displaced Palestinians come home. The same year Israel spurned Syrias peace offer. Subsequent ones were rejected. Nassers peace overtures were rebuffed. Israels hardline. Its inflexible. It wants things its way. It demands. It doesnt negotiate. Its all take and no give. It pretends otherwise. After the 1967 Six Day War, Palestinians wanted peace. They wanted an independent state. Israel wanted none of it. Arafat was repeatedly rebuffed. Pre-Camp David, so was Egypt's Sadat In 1988, the PLO publicly recognized Israeli sovereignty. In 1993, it did again. It did so within the Green Line. It comprises nearly 78% of historic Palestine. Israel wants it all. It wants all valued parts. It wants control of the rest. It wants Palestinians denied all rights. Its always been that way. Its no different now. Israeli leaders are hardline. Sharon was uncompromisingly rejectionist. Netanyahu exceeds the worst of his extremism. Palestinians are between a rock and a hard place. Theyre considered subhuman. Their rights dont matter. They never did. They dont now. Theyre demonized. Theyre called terrorists. Israeli schools indoctrinate Jewish children to be warriors. Textbooks call Arabs hostile, deviant, primitive, cruel, immoral, and violent. Hateful language describes them as robbers, bloodthirsty, and killers. In contrast, Jews are called industrious, brave, and superior. Notions of making the desert bloom are taught. So is claiming God promised Israel solely to Jews. Need I go on ? ..
Six of one - and half dozen of the other , WOT ? Looks like Palestinians forced to live under military occupation had no other choice - Who else but PLO was there to offer resistance against their violent Zionist enemies. ? Here're a few facts :The Palestine Liberation Organisation (PLO) was established in May 1964 in Jordan. The Palestine Liberation Organisation was a group that sort to combine various Arab organisations under one banner. The PLO’s primary objective was to gain (though from their point of view regain) the land handed by the United Nations to Israel. The PLO's impact on recent Middle East history has been marked. In its infancy, the PLO was not associated with violence. But from 1967 on, it became dominated by an organisation called Fatah - meaning liberation. This was the Syrian wing led by Yasir Arafat. ( could find no other alternative than fighting force with force ) It became more extreme as Israel became more successful militarily (1967 and 1973) and more intransigent about handing back land conquered from the Arabs (Sinai and the Golan Heights in particular). Some members believed that the only way Israel could be forced into returning land was to use violence – and bombing, hijacking and murder became their modus operandi. ( Not unlike French/Dutch/Polish/Yugoslav + other Resistance groups/Freedom fighters in Europe during WW2 against Nazi occupation ) ----
Many Muslims and Christians (see Sabeel) tried to prevent the development of HAMAS.. which really was supported by Israel to become a foil against the PLO... but they were recruiting from the meanest and most impoverished refugee camps.
Out of rhetoric [and out of emotional involvement], the matter of Hamas is sensitive. There was already Fatah, so I wonder, why the majority of the Palestinians in Gaza begun to support Hamas? Because Fatah was substantially useless from their perspective. I would even infer that the natural development of this situation will be the birth of two Palestinian states: Gaza and Palestine. The last try to create a national Palestinian government is more functional to internal politics than functional to a long term plan.
Pay attention not to touch the Partisans to Europeans. We overreact [at least!]. And it would be a tremendous mistake by the Palestinians who still enjoy a certain sympathy in European lefts [Partisans were overall Communists and Socialists, so if you want to lose your European friends ... go on with this.] Anyway, as any good politician, I won't ... I can talk about Italian Partisans and I can assure you that terrorists are not Partisans [so don't try to make this comparison]. Here Partisans didn't attack civilians without a military reason [there were civilians who cooperated with the Nazi - Fascist authorities, so they were licit targets], but Partisans didn't spread terror making buses explode in the middle of cities. They attacked Fascists and Nazis [and my be some priests ...]. This is the difference between a Partisan and a terrorist. Not to add that while Hamas terrorists attack Israelis, Israeli civilians, in Israel [not noting that they attack also Arabs who live in Israel ...], Italian Partisans have never imagined to go to German to attack German civilians [!!! Never in their life !!!].
I am warning you, do NOT try to derail this thread with your obsessive "Jews ain't Jewish" bull(*)(*)(*)(*).
this whole (*)(*)(*)(*)ing thread is about crimes committed by Israeli Jews in Israel, got it? if you are willing to talk about that, good. If you're just gonna playyou're "jews ain't jewish" schtick, go somewhere else cause im tired of you derailing every thread about Jews/Israel with this crap.
Hold on a minute mr tyrant. Iam willing to discuss Jewish criminals aren't I? Who in your mind is the biggest culprit in the crimes against Palestinians? Hertzl? Netenjahu? Bulan ?
stop the bull(*)(*)(*)(*). all you want to talk about is how they are "Jewish" and not "Jews". the Mods know all about your schtick and you've been warned about your derails regarding this. and thats all Im gonna say. any further nonsense and i will report it,.
so, back to the topic. Israel has committed crimes against Palestinians that no one can really deny. most of the world knows this.
Well Germans, Americans and Britains and no doubt many more deliberately killed civilians in WW2. The main reason rockets are fired from Gaza is if someone has been killed and that person is frequently a civilian. When Israel does her assassinations she more often than not also kills civilians. It is so often she clearly knows she will be doing this.
europeans (this is a European forum and our media is pro European obviously) don't care about Palestinian suffering because the persecutors are Jewish ppl. It's all tribal Jewish ppl are Europeans and Palestinians are Afro asiatic. That is the facts and no need to get butt hurt. It's all tribalism. Deal with it
