The ‘Collusion’ Debate Ended Last Night

Except, to be accurate, the "crime" in Mueller's authorization letter is coordination and neither collusion nor conspiracy.

 

There was plenty if polling data available what the crime here?

 

He joked they should help the FBI recover the emails on her private shadow server which she used for her official emails. Are you saying the FBI illegally obtained those servers? Are you saying that regardless the claims you and the rest of your liberal buddies previous claims that her private server which had highly classified information on was never hacked that in fact it was?

If she allowed the Russians to get her official emails which included highly classified information don you think she should be prosecuted?

 

And national polling firms spend millions and make their results known on a national level how are you claiming the Russians used the localized polling to spend their $40,000 on their facebook national ads? So what is the big crime here exactly what did Manfort share? "We think we will win Alabama"? "We think we will sun middle aged white men"? "We think we will lose the black vote"?

 

By that measure any discussion with any other person is "collusion". What's the crime with his discussing how the campaign thought the election was going with a business associate? What secret did he reveal?

 

You being obtuse.

You know that wasn't a crime to pass them the data. You intentionally leave out the part that, if true, shows that they were working with the Russians on the election. It would show that what the Trump and the right have been claiming all along would be false.

But you do whatever helps you sleep at night. You know, that feigned ignorance of whats right in front of you.

 

Not at all.

 

Try reading the link I posted. You obviously don’t understand internal polling of this nature

 

He discussed it with the very people who meddled to help trump. Why are you pretending you don’t understand?

 

I'll be the first to agree that Trump's aggressive, abrasive style is not helping the international situation -- particularly with Europe, and, more particularly with Germany. My German friends are not a bit happy with Trump -- but I do remember that Germans thought similarly of Ronald Reagan at times... but in the aftermath of Reagan's policies, the Soviet Union 'crashed-and-burned'. Remember?

Trump never went to 'charm school'. He was the fortunate son of a multi-millionaire who, himself, became a multi-billionaire by using strategies and tactics that WORKED for him! I voted for Trump, and would do so again rather than see a corrupt, doctrinaire, and frankly STOOPID creature like Hillary Clinton in the White House. She would have been 'Obama 2.0', but one Obama was entirely bad enough!

So... what choice did we have? I would have preferred to have Rick Perry as President of the United States, but his campaign was sabotaged with a fraudulent lawsuit by liberal Democrats early in the 2016 campaign. The lawsuit was thrown out of court, but the damage was done. Again... what choice did we have? We had an ignorant 'socialist-lite', conniving politician who felt entitled to be president because she has a vagina... and, we had Trump.

Now we've got radical Democrats wanting to throw open our southern border again, like ex-prez "Messiah" Obama did in 2014, and, on the other hand, Trump wants to build a 1,550 mile-long, thirty-foot high wall which will be virtually impossible to build, maintain, or, to STAFF! Lesser of two evils? But in spite of all that I don't care for about the man, I'd vote for Trump again -- given the same choice.

. 2014 -- Obama's idea of immigration law enforcement.

 

Criminal conspiracy, sedition, treason........any of those work for me.

 

Correlation does not prove causation.
The usa was pressuring the Soviet Union for DECADES before reagan. i think you would agree that the entire basis and structure of the ussr was flawed and corrupted. So that in restrospect it was only a matter of time before they crumbled

I am no fan of hillary and did not vote for her
But, that is not the subject we were discussing
The SUBJECT was whether investigating trump is causing our (former) allies to cuddle up to our enemies. And my point was that imo trumps abrasive attitudes toward our allies essentially chased them away. Frankly i doubt that foreign nations have more than a passing interest in the mueller investigation

Again, we are not discussing our choices during the election.... we are discussing the extended impact of the continuing mueller investigation. And... to take your point... maybe the voters would make the same choice no matter what mueller finds (or does not find). And maybe trump will be re elected no matter what mueller finds. But imo, there is no reason to rush or curtail the investigation. Let the investigation take its course, and let the american people be informed (what ever that means). let the american people decide the significance of what ever is found

I am no expert on his campaign.... but i think that he said something silly stupid in one debate.... and i also think trump crushed him just like he crushed every one else. It is imo kind of naive to propose that anything the democrats did would result in republican primary voters not voting for any candidate in the primary

I cannot speak for all democrats... but as far as i can see... this is a political urination match where trump is bound and determined to avoid the embarrassment of not getting his wall (regardless of how effective it might be or if there are better answers like layered fencing in some places—-which btw is what the israelis do). The democrats otoh are bound and detimined not to let trump steam roll them

As I understand it, there was already a bi partisan bill on border security funding that was designed to address the security issues.

Btw, can you provide ine link that show democrats support open borders? Your comments not withstanding, obama sent back more illegal immigrants that george bush. So it is not really accurate to portray his administration in the way that you do

Yeah, but my point here is that there should be some sort of plan that is more rational than knee jerk campaign rhetoric (a1500 mile thirty foot concrete wall). If trump would seriously support finding the best plan for border security.... i would support that.... most of the country woud support that. Instead he is fixated on fulfilling a boneheaded campaign promise

This is not about the next election. It is about the best way to solve a problem

Not sure what you are referring to
Other than the daca program....
was there something other than that?

 

Well, we're probably more in agreement than in disagreement. And, we've both gotten WAY off-topic. I'll sum-up by observing that although Obama tossed illegals out of the country, it amounted to a "catch-and-release" situation, and many of them came right back here, three, four, five times, and more! And they committed a lot of crimes AFTER coming back in our country, too!

The picture of the 'migrants' riding on the tops of trains was from 2014 when tens of thousands of them poured across our southern border. Obama did nothing but gather them up, distribute them all over the United States, and then give them food, housing, medicine, and everything else they needed. He sent some back home, and a very great many more stayed right here -- and are STILL here.

Mueller's investigation? As soon as Democrats are comfortably and fully back in their roles as the majority party in the House, then, maybe around early summer, we'll see Mueller's investigation results. Not before. It's funny about 'coincidences', isn't it....

Trump will probably end up being an "unindicted co-conspirator" of some kind, and the House Democrats will impeach him. The Senate will not remove Trump on that basis, so, this miserable, unending axe-fight will continue as before. Oh, lucky us....

 

Actually the opening post is.

Blockbuster Russia collusion story collapses, NY Times issues devastating “correction”

Manafort didn’t try to pass election polling data to the Russians after all... OOPS!



The NY Times broke a story asserting that Paul Manafort passed secret polling data to a Russian Oligarch with close ties to Russian intelligence:

FINALLY, THE SMOKING GUN!

The seedy slimy usual suspects were ecstatic, they finally had Trump right where they wanted him. This was the proof they all had been waiting for. The walls were closing in on Trump.

Josh Marshall called it “The Big Boom“:



Marshall then doubled down, The ‘Collusion’ Debate Ended Last Night!

Law Professor Paul Campos, citing Marshall’s analysis, took Republicans to task, The Collusion Debate Is Over:

Martin Longman at Washington Monthly echoed the praise for Marshall’s analysis of this bombshell news:

James Hohman at the Washington Post noted the significance of the news, and then summarized similar analysis from others, The new Russia revelations are more consequential than Trump’s newsless immigration speech

Media Matters complained that Fox News was not giving the story enough coverage:

BUT WAIT, THERE’S A PROBLEM.

THE NEW YORK TIMES HAD TO ISSUE A MAJOR CORRECTION TO THE STORY

Ken Meyer at Mediaite reports, New York Times Makes Major Correction to Report on Manafort and Russian Oligarch:

So the polling information was intended for the Ukrainians, not the Russians.

OOPS
Marshall was forced to eat crow

 

But you will never, ever been given the same choice again. 2020 is a chance for all those with the ridiculous claim that Trump was the 'lesser of 2 evils' to realize there was only 1 evil choice, and you made it. The other may have made a bad president (IYHO), but only 1 was a bad person.

Even if it's a nutty, loony, Progressive lefty (maybe with another vagina, like Warren, Harris (or Booker - lol)), or a regular nutty, loony, Progressive lefty like Bernie, or a Southern-Fried semi-loony, semi-Progressive like Beto, or an older gentleman with a solid history of good work in public service like Joe, it CANNOT be a repeat of 2016.

If you care to primary Trump with a Perry (lol, seriously??) or a Kasich, or a Mitt, or a Haley, so the general election is a battle of 2 human beings, I'm all for that and let the best person win.... But we cannot do this **** again for 4 more years...[/QUOTE]

 

The oligarchy will NEVER punish one of their own, even an errant swine like Trump.

 

Absolutely worst, but none of this is going anywhere.

 

It's a HUGE nothing.

The REAL danger here is the witch hunt and the attempted destruction of the Constitution.

Because HER time!

 

Still complete silliness.

At BEST.

 

Manafort discussed polling data with a business associate and that's the big crime? Nothing about Trump being involved.

What criminal conspiracy, sedition and treason. His discussing polling data with a business associate is not a crime.

 

Hmmmm seems the NYT retracted.....................where does that leave you?

 

Not at all and still waiting for what would be the crime but since the NYT is reported to have retracted the story...................

New York Times Forced To “Correct” Major Story On The Manafort Case
https://www.redstate.com/streiff/2019/01/09/new-york-times-forced-correct-major-story-manafort-case/

 

Why not wait and see what Mueller knows, you did ask a hypothetical question since Mueller is still on Trump like white on rice.

 

LMAO

The collusion "debate" ended before it ever began.

Never in my life have I seen such a lame and pathetic attempt on the part of a bunch of butthurt sore losers to avoid facing and accepting responsibility for the defeat of their absolutely horrible candidate, their bankrupt ideology and failed policies.

The "progressive" incapacity for humility and introspection knows no bounds, and what they can't seem to grasp in their grubby little power-hungry paws is the fact that it is their arrogance that cost them the White House in 2016 along with the Senate in 2014 and the House in 2010.

Once again, hoist by their own petard...

 

Yet The Mueller Witch-hunt and The Deep State Cover-up, continues:

Hiding Evidence: The Continuing Cover-Up

More information is supporting the theory that the current big Justice Department "investigations" are actually functioning as big cover-up operations. Robert Mueller's team is effectively hiding key evidence related to serious crimes committed by government officials. Mueller has nearly complete control over what the public or any investigator can see. He has control over what witnesses can talk about.

This means that the Huber and Horowitz investigations exist to make you think something is being investigated when it is not. That is why Representatives Doug Collins, Mark Meadows, and Jim Jordan sent a letter to Huber, the U.S. attorney, this week that essentially exposes the fraud.

https://www.americanthinker.com/art...nce_the_continuing_coverup.html#ixzz5cL89qnh3

 

Who said Turmp was involved ? This was never about trump until HE fired COmey. This si about the Trump CAMPAIGN

Your being obtuse. You know this is about what he was passing and WHY he was passing it. But you keep up the feigned ignorance.