Afghanistan, damned if you do, damned if you don't.

He didn't condemn opinions. He asked if you ever read responses and your response is just another exhibit that you don't.

For some reason, you and those like you seem to think a person is ignorant or ill-informed or stupid because they don't agree with you. You clobbering people over the head for disagreeing is more proof that that your type like to bully people into submission.

 

It's not a "forever war".

Leaving 5000 troops there and continuing to provide some air support to help assist and prop up the Afghan government is not really a "forever war".

The coalition losses had got down to less than 30 a year at one point.

 

Tha creak is getting deep... Let me get my waders out.

 

So how much do they pay you?

 

Because when Trump reduced the troop level below 3K it made it impossible to secure all the equipment we had there.

 

Not true… wanna try again?

 

The answer has to do with the old adage, 'between the best laid plans......"

Pretty much answered here:
http://www.politicalforum.com/index...rawal-has-shortcomings-i-stand-by-joe.591161/

 

http://www.politicalforum.com/index...rawal-has-shortcomings-i-stand-by-joe.591161/

 

I believe he know he was going to lose, hence the 'the only way democrats can win is if they rig the election' narrative.

 

"The best laid plans of mice and men." Yes...I don't think the "translators" are the key issue, although certainly we should have had a plan to get them out. I am thinking of all of those suburban women who helped Joe win the Presidency and the 18 million Afghan women we are leaving behind to return to a middle ages existence.

But, aside from that, do the math. I'm guessing, but I suspect the number we need to get around is abound 100,000...counting all U.S. citizens, NGO people, allies, Afghans with helped us, with their families, et al. Our current PLAN is to get 5,000 people/day out. It's August 17th. Our agreement with the Taliban lasts until August 31st. That's 15 days. Fifteen times five thousand = 75,000. That's about 25% short. I suspect the current plan is based on an old plan.

 

The Taliban has always believed it could run a country. Now they are going to find out they can't. they are just too stupid.

 

And, assuming negotiating with terrorists will allow this to happen.

 

He did a terrible job. Face it. They will be showing pictures of Afghans falling from airplanes and of crowds of Afghans trying to climb on moving airplanes for the next three and a half years.

 

Who knows? Presumably, we have that agreement. As long as it is their self-interest they'll probably hold to it. Their "self-interest" depends on who wants to leave. Remember "Lawrence of Arabia," when the Arab Army took Damascus, along with the British Army? Both wanted to run the new conquered territory...the British knew how, the Arab Army did not. The British waited them out and within a few days the Arab Army went back to the desert. I've already heard stories of the Taliban telling Afghan government employees to remain on the job...first politely and then threatening. IOW, I doubt they'll allow people to leave that they judge to be critical to running the country.

 

That was my point. There is a saying - "There is no honor among thieves.". Criminals don't play by the rules. If this was a simple as us asking and them agreeing and everybody had ice cream in the streets afterward, why don't we do that in gang territories, prisons or anywhere else that people (WHO DO NOT FOLLOW THE RULES) are located?

SPOILER ALERT - I'VE GOT SOME BAD NEWS FOR YOU....












We do not do it because it's ineffective and as hard as it is for you to hear this, know it is hard for me to type it. ANYBODY they deem a threat or has served their function WILL BE EXECUTED.

I'm sorry to be so blunt but that's the deal. Full stop.

 

Well...they think God is on their side. I'm not sure what leverage we have to force them to keep their agreement?

 

We, US Americans, claim to have God/god on our side also. From where I'm sitting, he's been kinda MIA for roughly 2,000+ years.

No, we don't have leverage. We have been left with our pants down and now it's just a matter of getting out anybody we can. It won't be pretty. We won't see the coffins coming into the airports. We won't get the ACTUAL count probably for years when this information can be declassified.

Again, I'm sorry to be so frank but I am NOT okay with this at all. I can promise you that you don't want the dirty details. Trust me. You don't.

Biden told us this would NOT happen and it happened. He may not have (willingly and/or knowingly) lied but he sure as hell dropped the ball.

 

I basically agree.

 

I think all reasonable people on the spectrum of foreign policy, from the warmongering imperialist to the pacific isolationist, can come to a consensus that the way in which this withdrawal was executed was nothing short of a fiasco. It's like they did not have any plan for how we would leave after twenty years. We just left. It's as if a person with dementia was in charge of all this. But, oh wait, yeah...

 

The Afghanistan Government was totally corrupt, all the US Aid were siphoned by corrupt officials, and everyone knew it, and it did not have support of the Army nor the people, and THAT is why they didn't fight. Simply put, there is no will to fight the Taliban, because there was nothing, in their minds, to fight for. That is the word I got from someone on the inside.

This is why it is futile to help these middle east countries.

 

As long as the taliban was there, it most certainly was.

 

Trump reduced it to 2500 military personnel. Taht isn't enough to protect and help people get out, and the only reason taliban didn't attack was the Doha agreement. Biden had to work in a constrained environment on a timetable where there just wasn't enough time and people to get it done. The only alternative would be escalation and with a 75,000 strong Taliban, it would be all out war.

 

Listen to the videos, and I'll repeat from another post:

Trump reduced it to 2500 military personnel per the Doha agreement. That isn't enough to protect and help people get out, and the only reason Taliban didn't attack was the Doha agreement. That was why they allowed it to go down to 2500 but it wasn't enough. Biden had to work in a constrained environment on a timetable all of which was set in place by that Doha agreement where there just wasn't enough time and people to get it done. The only alternative would be escalation and with a 75,000 strong Taliban, it would be all out war.

.
No one is saying the job couldn't have been done better, but the middle east is a quagmire. the 300,000 man Afghani army laid down their arms, and let the Taliban walk in and take over without firing a single shot. We spent $2 trillion building up and training that Army, and spent billions on Afghani infrastructure, and that is how they pay us back, giving up with out a fight? Excuse me, but I'm not sympathetic to Afghanistan, though my heart goes out to all the women there, for they know that a dark period is to come.

Biden had the courage to do what Trump did not, which was pull us out. Biden was advised of every scenario they could think of, and he knew it was going to be tough, and he knew that when it comes to the Middle East, despite all the plans one can make, **** happens and **** is going to happen, no matter what. I think he did the best job he could given the tiny military that what was left by the Doha agreement, but he knew he didn't want to be like all the prior presidents, to kick the can further down the road and let it be another president's problem.

But all you monday morning quarterbacks are not going to give Biden the light of day, hell, that wouldn't serve the right wing agenda, now would it.

So, let the bellyachers bellyache.

 

Given the constraints of the Doha agreement, with a timeline that is no where near enough time, and only 2500 military,
given that they they posited numerous scenarios and prepared for it, but, when you in the middle east, a place that is dominated by tribes, not governments, dominated by chaos, and tribal squabbling, going back centuries, a place of chaos and death being a constant companion, a place where **** does happen and often, and your 300,000 man Afghani army that you paid big bucks over the years for, didn't fire a shot to help you protect Afghanistan from the takeover as was hoped, noting that Trump didn't have the courage to do it, that he left it to the next president and Biden did have the courage to do it where no prior president did, I'd cut Biden some slack.

But, bellyachers gotta bellyache, cause that is why they do best

 

Seems to me the Taliban did a pretty good job of demonstrating that support of the govt is not necessary to win a war. We're in agreement with your last tho.