An idea to get Trump to resign without institutional crisis

No! ....I do not think that is a great idea at all! Keep tRump inside the fence!
Remember what happened last time that happened......

Sorry...could not resist temptation...
yours is one of the best posts ever

 

Perhaps you can divulge such information....? Or is it best to keep secret?

 

Thank you. I’m finding your thread and the content you’ve added to it to be very informative and thought provoking as well.

Good point about being labeled by both “sides”. But why be hated by half the country when you can be hated by the whole country for not picking a “side”, eh? That point demonstrates perfectly what the big elephant in the room is.

Sure, I wouldn’t expect you would hang out with horn boy. What I’m getting at is it’s unlikely anyone here knows a horn boy. As you add further down, the majority of people are not on board with this. I think the narrative that anyone who ever voted for or said a good word about a Trump policy is complicit is dangerous because the number of actual complicit individuals is small. Just think, if the number of actually complicit individuals was large, why do we not see spontaneous violence and rioting all over the country like with previous riots? I just don’t see any evidence even a small minority of Trump voters approve of this riot. And if they don’t approve of the riot, they aren’t going to vote for Trump again.

Oh, as far as social circles and how they are influenced by the specifics you mention (income, education, etc.), I agree with a caveat. The caveat being none of those things are necessarily explicit defenses against human propensity to political extremism, violence, or gullibility. Things like education and intelligence can help, but history is replete with examples of wealthy, intelligent, and educated people who made terrible decisions and intentionally and unintentionally harmed millions.

Absolutely. I don’t know any of THAT kind either. I’m in a sea of red here, amongst everything from high school dropouts to 1% ers, and I don’t know anyone who would participate in something like the Capitol riot.

Trump was done after the election even without the riots. After last week, he’s burnt toast.

 

I have many posts here advocating to Lock Trump Up. Your suspicions are, in my case, incorrect. My opinion is all about Trump. Nothing else. He is now in full blown violation of 18 USC 2385.

Stop poking the hornet's nest? Whom in your opinion comprises said hornet's nest? The folks that participated in the election riot? And if so, how were they poked? By having an election? Or by having that election challenged by the President of the United States in an unprecedented manner?

Trump is the nest poker in chief here and he should be held to account for it. Those on team Trump that want to take on the United States will be defeated. Pretty simple stuff.

 

I much admire your ability to see through the veil of the 557 arguments.

 

Well, you have created a few threads on this general subject and you are very prolific with your ability to post a lot of content with no spelling or grammar errors, often times with substantial content rather than the one liners that many here seem invariably incapable of ever exceeding.

Curious, what is the one outcome that you'd like to see happen?

Personally, as my posts have made clear, I genuinely want to see him locked up for violation of 18 USC 2385.

In fact, I'd like to see him arrested by the FBI, immediately.

South Korea and Japan are among the countries that have done a better job of holding criminal leaders to account.

Trump granted clemency to Michael Milken who all but single handedly caused the entire SnL crisis, but perhaps I digress....

 

The point is ... what if Trump wins the vote in the Senate anyway?

Think to the Democrats ... The Congress is Sovereign.
They would have to accept to see Trump around with his TV and internet network to criticize the incoming administration ... having to shut up.

This is a great political risk.

Trump risks a bit more that nothing and the GOP risks even less: the Republican Party has prepared a preventive isolation in case of impeachment.

Substantially only the Democrats risk something. For Trump and the GOP this is a Win Win situation. Even in case of the impeachment of the President.

But since Democrats are in "vendetta status", I guess they will vote for the impeachment.

Ok. We will have President Pence for some days. Nice.

 

I liked 557's roller coaster analogy. I tend to agree that Ds and Rs have generally converged right of center in support of corporate interests. Trump however has opened a pretty significant gap that only now Mitch McConnell, as but one key R, seems interested in dialing back.

I think that we here in the US, have a serious credibility problem with our justice system and I very much disagree that Trump should be given a pass when he literally applied the power of the office he holds to overthrow the government.

 

Which part?
Specifically, how?
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2385

 

They are Trump supporters. You discredit yourself with this assertion Sir.

 

Bullshit, Trump advocated the overthrow of government. He should be arrested by the FBI and charged under 18 USC 2385 and held in jail without bond. It has less than zero to do with partisan issues.

 

Whoa big fella! You made claims and I’ve asked you to back them up. You said:

I asked for you to back up your claims with specifics here:

Just as I’ve pointed out numerous times in this thread, there is great danger in painting with a broad brush. Especially when you have to admit I’m the next post you don’t have enough information.

 

Perhaps you could read the entire post instead of just the bolded portion. The answer to your question is there.

My posts here are to foster critical thought.

 

Absolutely. 110%. Team Trump has declared war on the US. Lock him up. If that fuels further fires from these seditionists then we can find plenty of space to lock them up as well.

 

There isn't even one being slightly better or worse than the other. One is massively worse than the other, because, since the election of Trump, it is now an incontrovertible fact.

Sorry, the left has never elected anyone as horrific and as much of threat to national security and the environment as Donald Trump.

There are only two parties with a sufficient caucus in all the legislatures across the land to effect policy and accomplish things, legislatively. GOP and Democratic Party. Either you choose a side, or you are just barking on the sidelines.

Dumping both makes no sense IF one is trying to get policy enacted.

Declaring you are 'realistic' does not make it so. Anyone can declare anything. You have to back it up with a compelling path of logic, and/or evidence.

Not seeing either from you.

 

No, it will not. Trump Supporters are going to jail as I type this. There will be no appeasement of team Trump. Even Moscow Mitch is now on public record favoring impeachment. Trump is toast and will be damn lucky to avoid jail.

 

I can't think of one logical reason why Pence would acquiesce and pardon him, if he were president for a day or two.

In fact, if Trump resigns a day or two before the 20th, I predict Pence would resign.

I predict that because I believe that Pence DOES NOT want to be 'president for a day', that would make him the supersap of history. It would make him the butt end of late night comedy for years to come.

Would you do it? I sure as hell wouldn't, I'd resign immediately if my president did that and I were Pence.

 

I read that as @557 saying there were people who revelled in the violence because it made Trump supporters look bad and would like to see more of it for the same reason. Ultra partisans who care little for peace if violence furthers their cause. To return to his analogy, people happy for the ride to come off the tracks no matter who gets hurt if blame can be apportioned to the guys at the back.

 

Thanks. My preferred outcome(s) would be, impeached, convicted by the Senate, loss of political rights to ever hold office again, indicted for various crimes including 18 USC 2385 and tax fraud, sent to prison, together with his adult children. But I'm sure that to this extent, it is wishful thinking. The powerful in this country are rarely held accountable, and somehow Teflon Don always gets away with stuff.

 

I doubt we will have President Pence for some days because both the House impeachment and the Senate trial would have to get done before 1/20 and I doubt it will happen. Not even sure if the Senate would convict. But for the Dems, I guess the political advantage is to see Republican senators going on record and casting a vote for Trump, who is now at the highest of his unpopularity, so these sound bites can be used in campaign ads in the future "Senator X... didn't have the courage to convict Trump despite these horrible attacks against our Democracy... are you sure that Senator X deserves re-election? Show to him that you value Democracy and abhor the events on 1/6/2021, unlike him, and vote him out."

 

You have a poster now in this thread poking people who have never voted for Trump, blaming them for last weeks events. If you are all about dealing with Trump and rioters we are in complete agreement.

The hornet’s nest will grow as it’s poked. As I pointed out above, placing blame on those who are not to blame is a dangerous game. People who are not racist have been called racist. People who are charitable have been called greedy. Rioting has been normalized. Violence has been rationalized.

Do as you please with Trump and rioters. Preferably according to rule of law as all riots in the past have been dealt with. But continued projection of the behavior and mindset of the few onto the many will certainly have consequences.

Please be aware, that projection is not accidental. It’s been going on for years (and yes, since everyone is on the same ride, it goes both ways) and it’s for a very specific purpose. It’s time to stop alternately puking and screaming and start thinking about why everyone is on the same ride.

 

I don't know, Pence is such a sycophant that maybe he'd be terrified that Trump would double up in his attacks on him, that he resigned to give to Pence the opportunity to "do the right thing" (!) and prevent the Dems from witch-hunting Trump with a well-deserved pardon, but instead, Pence chickened out and allowed of all people, Pelosi to be president for a day!

 

Interesting script. However, in order to become reality, it would need 17 repub senators able to muster up enough decency and strenght to confront Trump, albeit privately (your proposed casting still lacks 6 actors).

Supposing they were there, the slightest frown from Trump would make them melt down on the spot.

I don't want, and I think you don't either, CF, to see Trump enabled to save his face. For the sake of the country, he has to pay for his crimes.
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Out of topic, I've seen repubs reps refusing to wear a mask inside the Chamber of the House, just because it's considered a political gesture!
I've also seen supporters at a Trump rally holding signs that said "I'd proudly die* for Trump"!

Where is that happening? In which country? Where and how can people be indoctrinated to that point?


* it just occurred to me that Trump's most empathic response to them would be "I proudly dye for you".

 

Pence resigning makes more sense. But, it's a moot point, Trump is not going to resign.

 

Like I anticipated, Mitch is seeing that getting rid of Trump for good is advantageous for the Republican Party. The odds that Trump will get convicted in the Senate just bumped up dramatically. Like I said, where Mitch goes, the Senate Republican Caucus goes. There are already some 10 or 11 senators who would likely vote to convict; Mitch can find 6 more. I'm starting to believe that it is possible. And did you see Liz Cheney (R), Dick Cheney's daughter, a real conservative's statement about impeachment?

"On January 6, 2021 a violent mob attacked the United States Capitol to obstruct the process of our democracy and stop the counting of presidential electoral votes. This insurrection caused injury, death and destruction in the most sacred space in our Republic. Much more will become clear in coming days and weeks, but what we know now is enough. The President of the United States summoned this mob, assembled the mob, and lit the flame of this attack. Everything that followed was his doing. None of this would have happened without the President. The President could have immediately and forcefully intervened to stop the violence. He did not. There has never been a greater betrayal by a President of the United States of his office and his oath to the Constitution. I will vote to impeach the President."