Indonesia's Parliament votes to ban sex outside of marriage

Please, yardmeat, tell us more about your ignorance of the Christian Doctrine of the Trinity. It's been real cute.

 

I live in now a divisively blue state and overstepping the will of the people has been happening more frequently than not. Prop 112 which was an anti fracking bill that lost by 12 points was then passed through the state house (Democrat controlled) through SB 181 and signed by our Democratic Governor, absolutely overstepping the will of the people of Colorado. It's the Democrat climate religion that has overstepped the will of the people on a regular basis.

 

Tell me what I got wrong. You've clearly never spoken to a Christian about this. Name just one Christian denomination that says there is more than one God. Be specific. Name the denomination.

 

Clearly, you don't understand the Christian Doctrine of the Trinity, and because I learned this as a Christian a long time ago let me help you out:

Explicitly rejected in the Islamic Doctrine of Tawhid and the Shahada.

 

LOL.. Trying to. And you're fighting tooth and nail to support Warnock on another thread. That doesn't seem to demonstrate this idea that you're willing to attack democratic crazy.... Literally, you talk out of both ends of yourself....

 

Not much. Of course there are punishments, like trade embargoes, etc. We can make sure the conversation doesn't stop, and apply political pressure that might force the government there to enter the late 20th century... What is your thought then? Tolerate it?

 

Do you know what the UNE part of triune means? Even trinitarians believe that there is only one God. I can provide more info if this is honestly your first time learning about this.

 

Politics is the new religion!

 

You are not the only one here who has traveled abroad, has contacts abroad, and Australia is not the only country with close ties to Indonesia. The US has developed close ties with Indonesia since 9/11 and is considered an ally in both ASEAN and SE Asia geopolitical zone. That being said, I think you and others are pretty much trying to make this more out of a mountain than a molehill here. And yes, Indonesia is mostly moderate, but the fundamentalist Islamists are gaining ground, namely with foreigners marrying local women and the westernization of Indonesia as well. Thus, the geopolitics of this broad-based bill is mostly a mixed bag of nuts.

You have friends there, so do I. One of them is a Major General in the Indonesian armed forces. I met him when he was a young lad at my alma mater and went there. Kept in touch. But given my experience with law, anytime when there is a new law, the usual suspects do the doom and gloom. We had it with the ACA, the NDAA of 2018, and a few other laws. Even the doom and gloom with the Patriot Act 1 and 2. But it usually ends up much more mild than anything else.

The only thing that concerns me is that they have not reduced the selective of enforcement of crimes there, with the exception of illicit drugs. So again, the best course of action is to be prudent and patient. And read the damn law once it is enacted. From there, you will get a better picture. Otherwise, you are a wallaby, nothing more, nothing less.

 

I really don't think it will affect tourism that much. A bomb blast in the major market in Jakarta will do more damage to tourism there than anything this law will do.

 

Actually they wouldn't. Indonesians aren't a 'migrating' society. Not like Filipinos and other Asians.

 

Even Christians don't practice their religion the same way. You have the "new age" churches where the singing is more like a concert with a motivational speech by the pastor, then you have the more traditionalists of Catholics, Lutherans, Methodists, Espicalians, and Prebysterians, and everything in between. In a few pentecostal Christian services speaking in tongues is quite the norm along with the doom and gloom Revelation preaching. And if you really want a treat, go to a Masonic Church, a Jewish Church that happens to be Christian.

But overall, they are all interconnected. More is spoken about Jesus Christ in the Quran than in the New Testament. Judaism primarily looks at the Torah, the first five books of the Old Testament, but they have stopped, generally, animal sacrifices. But with Judaism, you have reformed, orthodox, ultraorthodox, Hasidic, etc. And each of them worships and practices differently too. As with Christians, we have both the Old and New Testament, but Paul writes that we are no longer bound by the Law, aka the Old Testament, and to rely on grace and faith.

 

@Talon Here are the very first words of the Nicene Creed: "I believe in one God"

 

Actually, they are similar, but not the same. For the Christian, we have three in one, the Holy Trinity of God the Father, Jesus Christ his son, and the Holy Spirit. Think of it as ice, water, vaper, so to speak. The doctrine of Tauhid, it basically says the oneness of God and that there is no God but he. This is similar to the Ten Commandments which says "Thou Shalt Have No Other Gods Before Thee." It was written at a time when the Arabians still worshipped many gods and not Islam in the 6th and 7th centuries.

The major difference between the three religions is as follows: Jews do not believe the Messiah has come. Christians believe the Messiah has come in the name of Jesus Christ, and Islam believes the Messiah has come in the name of Mohammed. They are all following the basic precept of the Massiah with one religion saying he has not come and the other two have said he has come, just with different names.

 

The whole ice/water/vaper comparison is more similar to modalism . . . which is considered a heresy in all major Christian denominations.

Which is also what Christians teach: that there is no god but he.

Very good comparison.

Also untrue. Muslims consider Jesus to be the Messiah (the anointed), not Mohammed. Mohammed is the last prophet.

Mostly true, but again, Islam doesn't consider Mohammed to be the Messiah. Jesus is explicitly called the Messiah in the Quran.

 

All very true. However, I was thinking of major differences like killing infidels -- although that too is mentioned once or twice in the old testament.

 

Muslims consider Jesus the Great Prophet, but Mohammed as the Messiah. With all three of these religions, there is only ONE Messiah or True Prophet.

The ice/water/vaper is the only analogy that makes sense in the Three in One holy Trinity. The concept is both separate and one, just as H2O can be separate depending on the temperature it is with, thus, ice, water, or vapor. It is considered one molecule but can transform into three separate distinctions. It is not really hearsay, but an explanation of John Chapter 1, and Acts, Chapter 2.

The doctrine of Tauhid is one of unitarianism in Christian Ideology. Unitarianism believes that There is one God but with different names. It can be Yahweh, Jesus, or the Holy Spirit. But in either case, it is not a total rejection of Christianity, just a different manifestation of it written by man

 

This is not true. My former in-laws were Muslim. We had these conversations. Mohammed is considered the final prophet, but not the Messiah. Messiah just means anointed. Even Muslims use this word to describe Jesus.

 

That is not in the Book of the Quran. It is a Hadith and has been misinterpreted by extremist groups. It is similar when Christians misinterpreted "equally yoked" to mean not marrying one outside your own race for instance. The Southern Baptists of the 1950s taught that. Or another example is that blacks bear the "mark of Cain." Again, Southern Baptists taught that even the infamous Billy Graham mentioned that once in the 1940s or 50s when he was preaching. Since then, both the Sothern Baptists and Billy Graham have apologized for it.

 

The definition of the Messiah is the "final prophet" or the Prophet of God and His true messenger.

 

It really isn't. Messiah literally means anointed. Not final prophet.

 

I understand the similarities and differences, and the article I cited from Vatican News in Post #104 does a good job of explaining the nature of the triune God that most Christians believe in and Islam rejects in the doctrine of Tawhid that maintains the oneness of God. Some people confuse or conflate trinitarianism-unitarianism with monotheism-polytheism, and I've heard takfirists refer to Christians as polytheists, but to make a long story short, trinitarianism-unitarianism concerns quality while monotheism-polytheism concerns quantity.

That certainly is a major difference, but I would argue that the differences go much further than that. The different conceptions of the nature of God is an obvious example, and even within Christianity the sects that did not adhere to the trinitarian orthodoxy (Arians, et al) were declared heretical. At its inception, that is pretty much how St. John of Damascus (c. 675-749) described Islam, as an Arian (or Judeo-Arian) heresy:

 

Well if you want to go there to bang a bunch of people then you should probably avoid it anybody else it doesn't matter.

 

you didn't realize that Florida is introducing religious laws?

Yeah there is setting up Sharia law you got to watch out with the don't say gay bill which was improperly named by propagandists. If you watch The Flintstones where they say they're going to have a gay old time you will be rested and sentenced to death by firing squad in Florida didn't you know that.

And there's nothing to do with and not teaching LGBT crap to third graders and it's all about a word you're not allowed to say in the supreme Court because they are also owned by the Sharia law they didn't overrule it as a violation of the first amendment.

Lol

 

Only takes one, my friend.... only takes one....

And yeah.... travelers never end up in trouble in foreign countries...