Russia, friend or foe?

How could I be so wrong?

I naturally assumed that nearly every American on this forum with whom I have had many discussions view Russia as a foe, a rival on the World's stage.

After all, the U.S. and Russia (Soviet Union) fought a 45-year Cold War. Clearly, Russia was an enemy then. Have some Americans forgot about the Cold War or never heard of it? How is that possible? How could an American adult not know about the Cold War?

In 2014, Russia invaded Ukraine and annexed Crimea. From the viewpoint of a huge majority of Americans those were the acts of an unfriendly power. Our President placed severe sanctions on Russia for her reckless aggression that could have and may still have serious repercussions. Is it possible some Americans forgot or never knew about these events?

Currently, we are at war with Russia. It is called a proxy war and it is taking place in Syria. We back rebels who are trying to overthrow a heinous dictator, Bashar al-Assad. Russia is backing Assad. Both sides are using high tech warplanes and we recently shot down a Russian MiG in the employ of the Syrian air force. The possibility of a Russian on American shoot down, or vice versa, is extremely high with both air forces practically operating in the same grid square. Theoretically, a river separates the two forces. A river that can be crossed in a half second by a fighter jet. Surely, every American who can read and understand English is aware of the Syrian civil war.

In the past election, Russia interfered in our election on behalf of Trump. A democracy such as ours is completely dependent on free elections. This time Russian aggression was aimed at the very heart of our form of government; a hostile act for sure, perhaps, even, an act of war. An American would have to have just arrived from Mars not to hear about this act of Russian aggression. It has been in the media for the past year, and our President can't stop talking about it, when he is not lashing out at T.V. personalities, CNN, MSNBC, or starring in wrestling videos.

And yet, back in October, almost half of Trump’s supporters viewed Russia as a nation friendly to the United States, according to a Politico/Morning Consult poll. Forty-nine percent of Trump supporters saw Russia as either an ally or a friendly nation. Conversely, only 19 percent of Clinton’s supporters had a favorable view of Russia.
http://www.theblaze.com/news/2016/1...supporters-see-russia-as-a-friend-to-the-u-s/

More recently, in late May, a Fox News poll reveals among Trump voters, 39 percent say Russia is a friend, and 59 percent think Trump sees Russia as a friend. Compare that to those voters who backed Hillary Clinton in the election: just 17 percent see Russia as an ally and 84 percent think Trump does.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...e-voters-say-foe-think-trump-says-friend.html

That is amazing and it explains a lot about some of the discussions I have had. Knowing that Russia helped Trump win the election, or at least tried to, roughly speaking, 39% of my Trump friends on this forum are so enchanted by Trump, that they view an avowed enemy of the United States as a friend.

That never entered my mind. How could I be so wrong?

 

It truly baffles my mind this tectonic shift Conservatives have gone through into thinking this way about Russia. I mean, it was only in 2012 when Mitt Romney, of all people, was talking about the danger of Russia under Putin. Admittedly, I like most on the Left, thought it was just a standard Republican ploy, drumming up the military-war machine as the standard right wing line of decades gone by, but then 2014 came around and the Ukrainian / Crimea thing happened.

 

It is not a tectonic shift from conservatives. I am a conservative. Nor is it a tectonic shift of the Republican Party. Please recall that established Republicans wanted anyone but Trump. A huge number number of conservatives and Republicans (they are not the same thing) are opposed to Trump today, and a growing number of Republican lawmakers are growing weary of him. Many only tacitly approved him anyway because technically (not actually) Trump is Republican.

The GOP got hijacked by a weird collection of voters, blue color workers, out of work miners, malcontents who blamed their miserable existence on Washington, anarchists, and others who just wanted the excitement of destroying the American Presidency.

A popular thread right now is 28-second video of Trump in a WWE broadcast. The thread is filled with their proud comments about Trump making a complete fool of himself in a video he posted on his Twitter account. That is why his voters sent him to Washington. To make a mockery of the American Presidency.

Notice what both polls say, "Half of Trump’s supporters" and "Trump voters." It does not say conservatives nor Republicans. That is highly significant because there is a great deal of difference between conservatives/Republicans and Trump supporters.

Also, Trump supporters are not well-informed. Many are not even aware of the Ukraine invasion or they simply don't care. The same could be said of the Syrian civil war. Many don't even know the U.S. is at war with Russia there, or, if they are vaguely aware, they don't care about that either. In fact, they don't much care about any domestic or foreign issue. Read their comments. You will see what I mean.

 

enemy? not exactly.

but they certainly have some very different agendas than we do.

 

Putin certainly wants to reestablish the power and prestige of the USSR.
That puts him on a collision course with the US.
Putin is certainly not to be trusted.

 

How could you be so wrong? Heck, I ask that question every time I read one of your posts!

But in answer to your question on this topic, perhaps the memories of some voters go back far enough that they remember that the USSR was an ally in the fight against Nazi Germany. (So maybe your question should be "how can an American adult not know that the USSR was an ally of the United States during WWII?"). Perhaps the views of some voters are nuanced enough that they understand that a nation needn't have to be considered 100% friend or 100% foe, that like any other human interaction, there are complexities and subtleties involved in nation to nation relations. (Remind me again, which candidate was it that said that Russia was the number one nation to be concerned about during the 2012 campaign?) Perhaps some voters aren't having their views of the geopolitical situation spoonfed them by the likes of CNN or MSNBC, whose reporters foam at the mouth at the very mention of the word Russia.

Just a few thoughts off the top of my head...

 

Will Crooked Donnie touch his toes for Putin? Likely, Putin gave him a lift across the finish line. Now, is he also financially tied to them? This we have to know.

 

Like SillyAmerican said, the world situation differs from situation to situation and rather than have an outbreak of tensions we should try to have positive relations with as many countries as possible, even ones we fundamentally disagree with at times(such as the Russians.) Perhaps the war mantra might be appealing to some, but even Trump isn't stupid. "We're nuclear powers, Russia's a nuclear power shouldn't we be friends?"

But obviously, Russia has sought a quantitative military advantage and as such violated some recent treaties, such as trying to up us in nuclear power, violating the premise of the Start Treaty. And then the posturing of our borders, which IMO is not only an attempt of a show of strength for Russia, but is silent support for China as well(China's South sea dispute, and our claim that anyone has free access to INTL waters.)


Does this rachet up the tensions? It doesn't help it, but IMO, every country should be gunning for the US. Even allies such as Japan, Germany, etc should be looking to one day displace us from the throne of world leader. And so they will aim to do this, and via appearances of Trump they've already drummed up the propaganda to do so(Germany specifically)

This is why 'America First' is such a huge concept. We shouldn't give guarantees to Europe, when the guarantees were meant to avoid a war theater. We shouldn't arm and support terrorists, when those terrorists are the greatest threat to world peace and stability. Assad must go, but ISIS must go as well. We have to insist on both, not just one.

The US Special Mission was to extend the beacon of liberty from sea to shining sea. Neo-conservatism, and general Washington policy of the past has failed to do this. Only a pragmatic view of the US Goals and accomplishing them, is the way to move forward.

 

What is the policy of the US which requires Russia to be kept weak and humbled?

The Cold War ended thirty years ago. We won. There was a regime change. No need to reignite a cold war.

The US is in a proxy war with Russia in Syria. This reminds of the US proxy war in Afghanistan where we supported the Taliban. There are no good guys in Syria either. Brutal dictatorships in the ME and NA (Libya) are excellent was to fight the global jihad, which is a real threat to the world unlike Russia. You are just replicating Bush's mistake in Iraq and Obama's mistake in Libya.

I know you want to avenge Hillary's humiliation, but is it really wise to provoke a war with Russia? You are just pawns of Global Capitalism which seeks to absorb Russia in its Globalist empire.

 

The reverse can be said about what Russia wants you to believe. No world wars in the last 82 years has a lot to do with American soft power as well as the threat of hard power. That can't be ignored.

 

Do not twist what I said.
Nobody - not even Putin - wants war, but Putin wants to expand Russia and gobble up nearby lands - like Crimea, Ukraine... to strengthen Russia and re-create the old USSR.
I said Putin is not to be trusted. I stand by that.
Trump is not to be trusted, either.

 

Obama says if you question Russia, the 1980's will want their foreign policy back.

 

Holy s**t, look at this graph. It speaks for itself.



http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...-u-s-and-confidence-in-its-president-decline/

Russia has 53% confidence level in Trump. Israel has 56% confidence level in Trump.

Canada has 75% no-confidence level in Trump. Mexico has 93% no-confidence level in Trump.

http://www.pewglobal.org/2017/06/26...rumps-leadership/pg_2017-06-26-us_image-02-0/

 

A number of Presidents have spoken that truth. Not having to run for office again gives them more freedom of action.

Your point?

 

Russia has the GDP of Italy. Anyone that thinks they're in a position to reclaim Cold War era status as a global power anytime soon is moronic. OPs version of events in Ukraine/Crimea is highly disingenous, ignoring our own (meaning 'The West') political financing and meddling in the region, playing our cliche'd regime change on Russia's doorstep. We (The West) "started it," not Russia. Given our empire of military bases literally surrounding Russia, given the recent rhetoric of our establishment warhawks (Romney, Clinton, McCain, etc) pushing for conflict and given the groups we support(ISIS, neo-nazis) against Russia and its allies, it seems to me that the only reason we're *not* at war with Russia already is due to THEIR political self-restraint, not ours.

 

Another who has highly sympathetic views toward Russia and denounces his own country's efforts to protect its interests. It easy to understand why he voted for Trump. Trump also wishes to damage American interests by making a mockery of the American Presidency.

Speaking of Trump, here is a clear example of that supposition.

North Korea just successfully tested an ICBM. According to the Pentagon, while the missile is capable of hitting Alaska, it cannot reach the lower 48.

What was Trump's response? He tweeted.

North Korea has just launched another missile. Does this guy have anything better to do with his life? Hard to believe that South Korea.....

....and Japan will put up with this much longer. Perhaps China will put a heavy move on North Korea and end this nonsense once and for all!

Following a round of tweets about North Korea late Monday, Trump spent Tuesday at his golf club with no further comment from the White House.

This is nothing short of incredible for an American President. The pathetic response from Trump is further exacerbated by the fact that, due to his "America First" policy, American leadership in the region has disappeared and Trump felt compelled to ask three other nations for assistance.

Trump is dragging our country down into the depths of irrelevance.

 

What would you like to see done about NK? More military intervention to 'protect our interests' (expand imperialistically)? Trump didn't give NK nuclear technology, and China is the *only* political entity that has any peaceful influence there. So, since you decided to sidestep the Russia issue and deflect to make it about Trump and NK, I'll assume you have a better idea. Lets hear it.

 

Ever since early April when he met with Xi at Mar-a-Lago, Trump has been trying in vain to get China to help us out with North Korea . As expected, Trump's attempts at getting Chinese cooperation ended in dismal failure.

Putin is an expert at relegating a foe to complete irrelevance. Will he do that to Trump just ahead of their bilateral meeting on Friday? It is possible.

Putin and Chinese President Xi met today and proposed a plan for defusing tensions over North Korea, suggesting that Pyongyang declare a moratorium on nuclear and missile tests while the United States and South Korea refrain from large-scale military exercises.

According to ABC News, "They said "the confronting parties" involved should sit down for talks to agree on principles that include a refusal to use force and a pledge to make the Korean Peninsula free of nuclear weapons."

Because North Korea is determined to make a nuclear-tipped ICBM, what if Putin upstaged the Trump-led, powerless United States and an agreement was reached with the aid of U.N. Security Council and both sides stood down.

Wouldn't that be wonderful?

 

Russia is over studmuffin. The media has moved on the Mike and Joe vs Trump. Focus on the nonsense that keeps liberals in their little box so the real work can get done.

 

The following are indisputable facts. The statements are not opinion or supposition. The statements are not TDS or fake news. The statements are not the result of a Democratic-fed conspiracy. The statements are facts, very troublesome facts.

Russian interfered in our election. According to our intelligence agencies, they did so on behalf of candidate Trump.

As President, Trump has never condemned Russia for interfering in our election.

As President, Trump has never taken any punitive actions against Russia for interfering in our election.

As President, Trump has not taken any action to prevent Russia from interfering in our future elections.

As President, Trump swore an oath to protect our Constitution.

Our Constitution embodies the concept of democracy as its form of government, and a democracy is enabled and completely dependent upon free elections.

Trump violated his oath.

"The White House is signaling that President Trump will not raise the issue of election meddling with Russian President Vladimir Putin when the pair meet in person for the first time at a Group of 20 summit in Germany on Friday. As CNN reports:

"There is little expectation among Trump’s national security team that the President will bring up Russia’s meddling in last year’s presidential election during the meeting, according to administration officials and another person close to the White House." https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...inviting-more-in-2018/?utm_term=.a52cf3518087

As seen from the post above, our allies hold Trump with very little esteem. Russia, on the other hand, has 53% confidence in Trump.

 

Since I was just a lowly first lieutenant, S-2 type, in the Marine Corps (ret.), that question is way above my pay grade. I have two suggestions, but I am not at all sure they would work. First of all, no preemptive war, don't attack N.K. on the assumption she might do something three to five years from now. If we attacked N.K., easily 25 million South Koreans in and around Seoul will die. The DMZ is Seoul's backyard.

How about a special ops or tactical bombing mission to take out their research facilities only? Knowing American military power can cause the cessation of N.K.'s existence, she might not retaliate. That kind of mission has been done before with few repercussions. Also, that is a last resort kind of mission. I prefer special ops over a bombing mission. That way accurate damage assessment is immediately obtained.

I didn't sidestep Russia. I dealt with Russia in a way you didn't like.

Never assume.

 

I have no idea what you are talking about. Do you?

What causes Trump's friends to speak in tongues? Another thing I have noticed about Trump's friends. They rarely say anything intelligent.

 

If there are some who remember or know the Soviet Union captured Eastern Europe from the Nazis, they will also remember the Soviet Union kept it. Perhaps, they will recall a shadow has fallen upon the scenes so lately lighted by the Allied victory…. From Stettin in the Baltic to Trieste in the Adriatic an iron curtain has descended across the Continent.

You said, "(So maybe your question should be "how can an American adult not know that the USSR was an ally of the United States during WWII?")."

That comment fits nicely with the theme of the OP. That a large percentage of Trump supporters are sympathetic toward Russia. You go all the way back to WWII to show that Russia is an ally of the U.S. You conveniently omit the intervening years where it is shown that is not true. Also, by some weird reasoning, you interpret the Soviet Union's act of annexing Eastern Europe as a friendly act. At least, that is what you implied.

 

I just hope we still own Alaska when Putin is through with him.